Card Fighters DS.... sadly no good.

Tehcno

Bao's Babysitter
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Posts
2,813
I'm really not happy with the game system in this version. It just plays too slow. They now use a gem system. To pull out a card it will cost so many gems. It may be one grey gem and 3 yellow gems. Then as cards come out of freeze phase they add jems to the lot but it may only be 1 yellow or 1 red.
Also to use special moves or unions you have to use these jems so basically you do a lot of sitting around just ending your turn to get more jems rather than keeping the action moving.
I'm sure I'll get used to it. At least I hope. But so far I'm very disappointed.
 

Sorwah

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Posts
189
It took me to the first boss battle to figure out that discarding a card from your hand will give you it's color gem (ONE!).

I swear, there are times where it just feels like the computer lets me off the hook. It's sitting there with 5 cards each with 500BP and I was only able to put out one card so it's frozen now and have nothing to defend the 5 cards with. But it decides to pass the turn so that it can get some gems. . .

Oh and I'm still at the first boss fight because of that guy's 700BP C.Akuma and 500BP everything else.

I miss the whole team system for helping a character bulid up attack damage. I do enjoy the new way to have a card heal another (at the cost of ONE PRECIOUS gem :oh_no: ). I do not like the fact to do union attacks i need like 8 white gems along with whatever color gems x6. Does that mean I have to sit there and do nothing for 8 turns?! I mean every f'n card requires at least one white gem. At the same time, every f'n turn only gives me one white gem.
 
Last edited:

Amano Jacu

Charles Barkley
Joined
Sep 11, 2001
Posts
8,594
So I understand this means you can't win using that cheap tactic in the fist turn?
 
Last edited:

Sorwah

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Posts
189
What is this cheap tactic in the first round?

Maybe it's once I get some new cards :-( . I have only the original deck and can't afford any packs (They cost 800 and I get 100 from each battle so far).

I noticed that 1st player of course can have those 3 whites but when 2nd player comes up they get that extra 1 white. Once the first turn is over 1st player can technically do a full attack on the enemy. But if not killing him will have nothing to defend with. And the 3 white gems would stop someone from giving powerful characters. In theory at least.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Posts
37
Sorwah said:
What is this cheap tactic in the first round?

Maybe it's once I get some new cards :-( . I have only the original deck and can't afford any packs (They cost 800 and I get 100 from each battle so far).

I noticed that 1st player of course can have those 3 whites but when 2nd player comes up they get that extra 1 white. Once the first turn is over 1st player can technically do a full attack on the enemy. But if not killing him will have nothing to defend with. And the 3 white gems would stop someone from giving powerful characters. In theory at least.


I'm on the 6th floor and battles here give you 200 points. And bosses give you like 600 then I did another one where I got like 1200 points. So you get more points as you advance in floors.

Hope that helps.

-a.
 

bokmeow

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
Joined
Apr 11, 2002
Posts
11,314
How can you not have known this? It's in the tutorial at Kid's store on the 1st floor. I also had posted the rules in one of the early CFC DS threads. Lemme dig it up.

bokmeow said:
I'm going to recite from memory how the game flow proceeds, this isn't a direct translation of the tutorial, so the wording is going to follow mostly my own, as opposed to my near-religious zeal of staying true to the original Japanese descriptions when I drew up the card spoiler list.


1: Each player rolls a die; the player with the higher rolled die value gets to determine whether to go 1st or 2nd.

2: Each player receives 3 white Force points and draws 6 cards from his deck. If you go 1st in Turn 1, go to step 4.

3: You receive 1 white Force point; for each character in your playfield, you receive 1 Force point of each character's Force alignment.

4: Draw 1 card.

**** You may perform step 5, 6, 7, and 8 in any order ****
5: You may discard any number of cards from your hand. For each card discarded in this manner, you receive 1 Force point of each discarded card's Force alignment.

6: Play Character, Action, and/or Counter cards by spending the play cost shown on the card. Obey the Force alignment shown in the play cost. White Force points may be spent to satisfy only white pips in the play cost; any combination of blue, green, red, and yellow Force points may be spent to satisfy white pips in the play cost. If a character has a Triangle special ability, you may spend the activation cost to trigger said ability or decline payment. Characters played into your playfield normally will enter play in a frozen state.

7: You may spend the activation cost on a character with a Square special ability to use to trigger said ability. After a character uses its special ability, it enters a frozen state.
(NOTE: Characters with Circle special abilities are continuous effects --- payment of their Force costs are outside of your control. If preconditions in the Circle special ability are met, the game will check your Force point balance to see if you are able to satisfy the Force cost; if you cannot, then effects of said ability do not occur.)

8: You may Support/Backup any number of characters in your playfield with character cards in your hand, where Support/Backup refers to the effect of replenishing 1 character's current HP, if it is below the printed HP value, with the printed HP value of 1 character card in your hand. To perform a Support/Backup, donor and recipient must have matching Force alignments, and you must pay 1 Force point with corresponding Force alignment.

******************************************
9: You may declare any number of characters in an attack. BP is the attack power and HP is the defense power of each character. When a character's HP is reduced to 0, it leaves play and enters the discard pile. There are 2 types of attacks that you may perform: Normal attack and Fusion attack. A normal attack is one in which each character enters an attack, alone. A Fusion attack is one in which 2 characters join forces in an attack and requires the payment of 8 white Force points; only 2 characters with matching Force alignments may do so. Once all the attacking characters have been decided, press the button of attack declaration to announce your attack(s).

10: Opponent may declare any number of characters to defend against an attack. Once all the defending characters have been decided, press the button of defense declaration to announce your defense(s). Opponent may also play Counter cards during his defense declaration.
If a character is assigned to defend against a Fusion attack, and if the combined BP of the Fusion attack exceeds the HP of the character defending against that attack, the damage difference --- Penetration damage --- is dealt to the defending player. (which I referred to as spill over damage; later I will go back to revise the wording to more closely mirror the original Japanese description)

11: Declare end of turn. If you have more than 8 cards in your hand, you must discard your hand down to 8 cards. You receive 1 Force point of each discarded card's Force alignment.

12: Turn goes to opponent. Go to step 3.

Hope that helped :)

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160125&page=1


Sorwah said:
It took me to the first boss battle to figure out that discarding a card from your hand will give you it's color gem (ONE!).

I swear, there are times where it just feels like the computer lets me off the hook. It's sitting there with 5 cards each with 500BP and I was only able to put out one card so it's frozen now and have nothing to defend the 5 cards with. But it decides to pass the turn so that it can get some gems. . .

Oh and I'm still at the first boss fight because of that guy's 700BP C.Akuma and 500BP everything else.

I miss the whole team system for helping a character bulid up attack damage. I do enjoy the new way to have a card heal another (at the cost of ONE PRECIOUS gem :oh_no: ). I do not like the fact to do union attacks i need like 8 white gems along with whatever color gems x6. Does that mean I have to sit there and do nothing for 8 turns?! I mean every f'n card requires at least one white gem. At the same time, every f'n turn only gives me one white gem.
 

GregN

aka The Grinch
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Posts
17,574
One minor gripe I have about this game are the controls. You can use the d-pad and the stylus to manipulate cards, but you can't use one control method to do everything; you have use both the stylus AND the d-pad. (Ie Stylus can put cards on board, select "end turn" & "attack" but you have to use the d-pad and A button to select some menus).
 

bokmeow

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
Joined
Apr 11, 2002
Posts
11,314
I checked in on the Gamefaqs board --- a lot of people are complaining about the cryptic translations for card abilities. Seems like CFC1 all over again. Maybe I should have asked SNK Playmore to hire me, or sent off my card list translation to SNK Playmore in exchange for end credits.

Makes my card spoiler list even more valuable now I suppose. :emb:
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Posts
357
GregN. said:
One minor gripe I have about this game are the controls. You can use the d-pad and the stylus to manipulate cards, but you can't use one control method to do everything; you have use both the stylus AND the d-pad. (Ie Stylus can put cards on board, select "end turn" & "attack" but you have to use the d-pad and A button to select some menus).

Really? I thought that you could do it all with the stylus...what can't you do with a point and click? Also, you can get some menus by clicking-holding-then releasing on a card. Maybe that covers it?

After only 10 or so matches, I really feel like fusions are going to turn out to be a load of crap. The fact that only the first person in the fusion takes damage from a defender seems like it will make them REALLY powerful...I envision one monster card that keeps putting wimps in front of him to take the hit while killing the defender and causing damage to be a simple and effective strat...especially since many of these wimps can give 3 force when you freeze them. Maybe that's why they have "meat sheild" characters that do pitiful BP, but have HP for days. Again, only a first impression...
 
Last edited:

Sorwah

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Posts
189
You can use the pad for everything. Just hit the b-button to go to the other areas. Depending on the screen depends on where the b-button takes you.

And yes I followed both of his tutorials. He didn't mention it, or I didn't see it, or it was lost in translation. But I finally beat the boss.
 

Blue Steel

previously "bubu_X"
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Posts
3,838
I just tried to play this game for a little while and couldn't figure out shit. I don't know if I missed the battle tutorial or what, but right now I don't know what the hell you're supposed to do. It's not a simple game anyhow (I never played too far into the first one for ngpc either).
 

Kim Kaphwan

Member,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 22, 2001
Posts
1,601
You can find the in-game tutorial on the 1st floor. It's the guy who sells cards. You can either buy cards from him or let him explain through the tutorials.
 

not sonic

King of Typists,
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Posts
9,327
man anyone read through the manual?

its crap. i love the boobs every few pages.

"Bet Battles will blow your mind with white-hot excitement!"


terrible translations were funny in fighting games. but for something like this its borderline annoying. not to mention its fucking 2007. youd think someone would speak english at snk by now.



also the manual pages are super thin, and the case is really flimsy.

i know i know stupid nitpicks.


i never really understood the ngpc one. im glad they added the force gems, it makes more sense since ive really only ever played mtg.
 

Hikaru Ichijyo

Thundercock,
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Posts
1,826
I troddled my way through my first card fight earlier today, not knowing entirely what I was doing but somehow I won the match. Not sure what to think of the game so far but it has me yearning to play the original again.

All in all, pretty pictures on the cards, the stats compared to the original game are WAY off, and the gem system is somewhat confusing.
 

Kirk Foiden

James Tiberius,
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
Posts
3,267
Actually, the manual is pretty good at teaching you how the game is played. It actually is easier to make sense of it than the tutorials which are a bit cryptic with filling in all the details you need to know.

Initial impressions (kind of long):

While I am getting to grips with this new CFC on DS, the main hurdle to get over is the added complexity of Force in the game. To a certain degree, my impression is that it hurts a little from a standpoint of how the originals were so darn easy to get into and then had some great strategy in there. This one has the potential to be deeper and with better controls in place for balance. In one way, it depromtes the easy possibility of an early game rush if you were just lucky to get the big cards right at the beginning. On the other hand, you can still overwhelm with a real lucky draw, but slower and with more chances of the opponent coming up with a proper defense.

Still, as many people here are feeling, this game is bringing its *basic* complexity more in line with other famous CCGs. That's not always a good thing when people are looking for the CFC1/CFC2 simplicity of main battle design, followed up by complexities of decisions caused by auto action commands.

If there's one thing I may miss with this version of the game is that it seems all actions require force, but that's not the part I'm talking about. Anything that requires force allows the USER to make a decision on whether to activate an action or not. This makes it *seem* that cards with actions that either:

1. Activate the instant they are place in the ring, automatically.
2. Cause an effect as long as they are in the ring, automatically.

Don't really exist in the game. This was one aspect that I really liked in the other ones because some rather neat cards had these aspects that were either desirable or non-desirable based on the situation. This added a nice layer of depth to your choice of character cards you wish to put in the ring. All without making the game more complex in user execution. A key original CFC element. Their mantra, other than keep it simple, was to only increase complexity for user actions only if it was absolutely necessary; otherwise, keep the complexity just in the card actions.

On the other hand, since they really want to have the typical CCG resource aspect, putting cost on playing a card may have been a bit incompatible with the whole auto-trigger aspect of character card effects. Not to mention, you'll be forced to discard more cards, than before, in order to build force fast when you need it. This alone might not be as much of an ommision, but more of an issue with incompatible game mechanics when you still lose if you run out of cards. Maybe with more play, I'll see if it is true that all auto-trigger effects are gone.

General concensus:
I can't really say this is worse than the originals yet, but I think it might lose a bit of its uniqueness by going to this resource (force) method. Still, being so early in the game; I have a lot to see before I can come up with a conclusion. If there's the bonus of some great, inventive, and strategic effects you can trigger; my thoughts on the game quality will increase quite a bit. Not to mention, trigger a greater sense of *wow* I really need to collect more, to this.

While the game is still generally less daunting to enter than some of the bigger actual CCGs out there (an aspect that's generally kept me from really getting into them), I do think that the added basic complexity will hurt the game's potential in the states. It kind of feels like they abandoned the casual Card-playing folks, who loved the originals, a bit to appease more of a hard-core CCG person, in the game. Still, I know even CCG players who liked Card Fighters Clash, so I'm not so sure if messing with a great formula is wise. This is compounded with the fact that many DS players never had a NGPC or played the original Card Fighters Clash. They may have heard about it, but are then denied the same *instantly addictive* nature that coined the originals. So, in a way, if a DS person (who typically doesn't play card games) picks this up as their first CFC game and says, "Is this the game you were talking about?" You still have to answer, "Not exactly. You'd probably still want to start by finding an NGPC and getting the original."

Q and A section:
Is it good? Even at this point, I can say it does traverse a tried and true *good* formula. What they added does indeed work well for some of the most successful full-blown CCGs out there. They understand it well. Only time will tell if it gets *great*. The simplicity which made the originals instantly addictive is definitely lost here. Those games did rule the roost when it came to plain speed.

Is it like the originals? At initial impression, no way. At first play, the non CCG fans who absolutely loved the originals will feel a bit betrayed by the force system (Or some form of typical CCG resource management system). It slows the game down, and that alone compromises the instantly addictive nature of the originals. On the other hand, they did thankfully leave out plenty of complex stuff quite a few full-blown CCGs have place in their systems. This is coming from the opinion that card fighters clash should keep their audience in check. I believe they still want to cater to folk who otherwise may be turned off by the more initially complex CCGs.
 
Last edited:

Mad Mage

Edo Express Delivery Guy
20 Year Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Posts
343
Putting the horrid plot and translation aside. Looking past the retarded AI and the miserable balance which strongly encourages the used of one-cost cards. Even getting past the fact that the whole game is set in a boring tower that you can't even walk around in:

The game is glitched. There's a guy named Jon and the ninth floor. Don't talk to him after you beat him because his second dialog crashes the game. This means that in the new game plus where all the fighters use their second dialog, you will not be able to progress. Jon's on both sides of the 9th floor and you have to fight him to progress. You can not get all the cards in the US version. You can not complete the game. I've emailed SNK asking if they are going to do anything about this. I suggest everyone else does the same to put some pressure on them.

When Bubble Bobble DS (from what I hear a terrible game in its own right) had a game-breaking glitch, the publisher eventually sent out replacement copies to all those who asked. Here's hoping SNK does the same. Though I'm just about to give up all hope that they care about their fans.
 

not sonic

King of Typists,
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Posts
9,327
im curious if any of you guys have played a tcg before.

i just could not get the fact that cfc1 had no resources. you just play what you draw? that doesnt make sense. its totally unbalanced and based on luck of the draw.

yugioh has some restrictions to what can be played but its kind of similar in the same regard.


the force system makes it a lot more like magic which i can understand completely as ive played it way too much and it just makes sense.

part of the game IS managing your resources. i remember someone saying that the best way to win at magic is to "break" the rules. anything that lets you play more than one land per turn, draw more than once a turn, etc. is how you win. you get around the limitations of your turn.

thats the new kind of strategy you need to play and i think this makes cfc ds a much better game.
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
not sonic said:
im curious if any of you guys have played a tcg before.

i just could not get the fact that cfc1 had no resources. you just play what you draw? that doesnt make sense. its totally unbalanced and based on luck of the draw.

yugioh has some restrictions to what can be played but its kind of similar in the same regard.


the force system makes it a lot more like magic which i can understand completely as ive played it way too much and it just makes sense.

part of the game IS managing your resources. i remember someone saying that the best way to win at magic is to "break" the rules. anything that lets you play more than one land per turn, draw more than once a turn, etc. is how you win. you get around the limitations of your turn.

thats the new kind of strategy you need to play and i think this makes cfc ds a much better game.

Not everything needs to play like MTG fag. MTG sucks.
 

Sorwah

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Posts
189
Mad Mage said:
Putting the horrid plot and translation aside. Looking past the retarded AI and the miserable balance which strongly encourages the used of one-cost cards. Even getting past the fact that the whole game is set in a boring tower that you can't even walk around in:

The game is glitched. There's a guy named Jon and the ninth floor. Don't talk to him after you beat him because his second dialog crashes the game. This means that in the new game plus where all the fighters use their second dialog, you will not be able to progress. Jon's on both sides of the 9th floor and you have to fight him to progress. You can not get all the cards in the US version. You can not complete the game. I've emailed SNK asking if they are going to do anything about this. I suggest everyone else does the same to put some pressure on them.

When Bubble Bobble DS (from what I hear a terrible game in its own right) had a game-breaking glitch, the publisher eventually sent out replacement copies to all those who asked. Here's hoping SNK does the same. Though I'm just about to give up all hope that they care about their fans.

Really? is this true? i've only made it to the 3rd level so far :-(. I'll see and I'll complain. I believe the "90-day limited warranty" on the back of the manual says to email sales@snkplaymoreusa.com

and i'd suggest posting about it in their official forums: http://www.snkplaymoreusa.com/mb/viewforum.php?f=27&sid=ee5c9bed79dda12ea8536d167dcc2b95
 

Mad Mage

Edo Express Delivery Guy
20 Year Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Posts
343
I have no huge qualms with the force system. But it too is unbalanced. Since you gain a resource in the beginning of your turn for every card you have, it encourages cheap cards. And since you have like 7 or 8 slots for fighters, you can spam out a jilllian little guys to overwhelm your opponent with team attacks. Throw in a few cards that let you draw cards and your near unstoppable.

On the topic of CCG resources, I like the way UFS does it (which also has SNK cards incidentally). Each card has a control and a cost value. When you play a card, you must pay it's cost+1 for each card you've played that turn. To pay the cost you flip over the top card of your deck and that card's control is your check to pay the cost. If it's not enough, you can tap other cards you have in play to make up for it. This allows for some really cool gambits and a tone of number balancing both when you make your deck and as you play.
 

Sorwah

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Posts
189
Last I heard UFS was broken. Mainly because Soul Calibur came in and was really bad. Rather than nerf, they broke the other series.
 

not sonic

King of Typists,
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Posts
9,327
Nesagwa said:
Not everything needs to play like MTG fag. MTG sucks.

lols

mtg is the greatest tcg ever made. every other game pales in comparison.
 

Mad Mage

Edo Express Delivery Guy
20 Year Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Posts
343
UFS is a bit broken at the moment. The last expansion has too many powerful attacks and matches can end as soon as the 2nd turn. It's an awesome game if you don't use the super cheap cards and combos. At any rate, they are doing stuff to balance the game so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
not sonic said:
lols

mtg is the greatest tcg ever made. every other game pales in comparison.

We both know this is a lie.

MTG is convoluted and impossible to completely understand due to them adding new bullshit rules every expansion set for the last 15 years.

You need a god damned encyclopedia to get all the rules.

Not to mention that everyone who plays it is a nerd asshole.
 
Top