1084S-P help with back connections

[Adderall]

I picked up a commodore monitor for cheap. Almost free....
Problem is I don't know what connectors I should use. Obviously I should be using RGB but there are 2....or 3?

Here are my questions about it:

* Is there an RGB input behind the plastic part? Should I cut it out?

* IF there is.... will it be japan RGB or UK? I have cables for JP RGB

* Assuming I only have the DIN to work with, which one is the best? 6pin (labled lin) or 9 pin (labeled TTL)

* Is my xrgb2+ useless now that I have this?


Anything to get me started would help. I am reading these are great for old school systems and probably arcade stuff too! score!
Thanks!

 

[Hewitson]

I picked up a commodore monitor for cheap. Almost free....
Problem is I don't know what connectors I should use. Obviously I should be using RGB but there are 2....or 3?

Here are my questions about it:

* Is there an RGB input behind the plastic part? Should I cut it out?

No. Why would they bother putting an input there and covering it up? It's there for the European models.

* Assuming I only have the DIN to work with, which one is the best? 6pin (labled lin) or 9 pin (labeled TTL)

You must use the 6 pin.

* Is my xrgb2+ useless now that I have this?

Not when you want to play on a larger/different screen.

Pinout for 6 pin DIN: http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/apple2/...he-pinouts-for-Commodore-s-1084-monitors.html

 

[Adderall]

Thanks for the pinout.

I suppose I'll have to start making my own cables then...

OR

Is there such a think as a JP RGB to 6 pin DIN (analog RGB) adapter?

 

[Hewitson]

Very unlikely. You could probably get a SCART cable for it though, and I'd be surprised if you couldnt get a JAP RGB>SCART converter.

 

[Adderall]

OK,.. so I've been talking to a guy who makes some good quality cables.

I think he might be wrong about this statement:

I have studied both din input connections for the monitor, and they both require Horizontal and vertical sync inputs which is only associated with VGA graphics.

IF this is true............
Can I just make a cable that goes from the back of my XRGB2+ (vga cable) to the 6 pin din?? That would make life easier for me, as I already have JPN RGB cables for a lot of my systems.


IF this is false...........
I'm planning on buying a female JPN RGB connector and wiring it to the 6 pin din connector with breakout audio.
OR
Maybe I can use the the 8 pin for the output of my XRGB2.

 

[lachlan]

Some monitors allow for Composite Sync on the Horizontal Sync line. I know that my old 1988 Mitsubishi Megaview did.

 

[Hewitson]

I have studied both din input connections for the monitor, and they both require Horizontal and vertical sync inputs which is only associated with VGA graphics.

Absolute bullshit. ALL Commodore monitors are 15khz.

As lachlan says I believe you will be able to hook composite sync up to the horizontal sync pin.

The 8 pin is only for TTL level (digital) RGB. I would not advise connecting anything but a Commodore 128 up to this unless you want to risk damaging something.

 

[Adderall]

Thanks for your patience Hewitson. A few more questions and I think I'm off and running.

I'm planning on buying a female JPN RGB connector and wiring it to the 6 pin din connector with breakout audio.

so this is my choice then. I'm making an adapter.

please forgive my mspaint skills. conceptually I made the picture backwards.... the JP Scart will be a FEMALE connector that is accepting video and audio from a game console. So really the signal is moving from right to left.

Where does the HSYNC and VSYNC go? (which one on the RGB diagram is composite sync?)
Do I need anything in between these lines or can I straight wire them?

 

[MKL]

This monitor accepts csync on the vsync pin so it's:

9 sync in ----- 6 vsync

And you need to use pin 1 and 5 for sound.

 

[Adderall]

UPDATED PIC

Do I need anything else? Missing anything? What about HSYNC?

 

[MKL]

You need an actual sync signal, it doesn't work with composite video from a console. You'll have to build a sync separator circuit.

 

[Adderall]

so like an LM 1881 N or something?

 

[MKL]

Yes.

I think the best solution would be to add the scart socket (which would accept composite video as sync) but working on a monitor chassis is not for everybody I guess. I have this monitor myself and it lacks the scart socket too. I think I'm going to add one soon.

 

[Adderall]

yeah that's way beyond me..

if I can get this cable working and somehow build the sync separator I'll be happy.

I have ps1/2, genesis/cdx, SNES, and my supergun outputting RGB to JPN Scart so this adapter will really come in handy.

So... what does the sync separator look like when it's done? I've found a lot of schematics but is it small enough to make as part of the cable like I've seen in one picture or should I make a tiny project box or something?

 

[Adderall]

ok..

here is my updated picture. Let me know if anything is wrong.

 

[MKL]

Pin 2 of LM1881 goes (through the 0.1uF cap) to 9 sync in, not 10 sync out. Pin 1 of LM1881 goes to VSYNC (HSYNC is left unconnected). Add a 0.1uF ceramic cap across pin 4 and 8 of the LM1881. All your J-RGB cables need to have 5V at pin 11 or it won't work.

 

[Hewitson]

What is that used for MKL? To select between RGB and composite? (Or does Japan use RCA's for that?)

 

[MKL]

For switching between different signals as the japanese 21-pin connector carries RGB, composite and s-video like scart. The sync pins must in fact be composite video.

@Adderall: you could probably skip the sync separator and just wire 9 sync in to the yellow jack.

 

[Adderall]

now i'm confused...

Is it A or B?

you said that HSYNC is left unconnected, right? so this might be wrong.

I'm going to pick up the parts tonight. If it's "B" i'm planning on getting - qty 3 ceramic caps (0.1uF) and one 680K resistor. If it's just "A" I can wire it up tonight and test!

 

[jew90]

Absolute bullshit. ALL Commodore monitors are 15khz.

As lachlan says I believe you will be able to hook composite sync up to the horizontal sync pin.

The 8 pin is only for TTL level (digital) RGB. I would not advise connecting anything but a Commodore 128 up to this unless you want to risk damaging something.

Sorry if this adds any confusion.

Hewi is right there 15khz monitors.

I have the 1084D which uses a DB-9 for analog and digital. this has 'H-Sync / V-Sync AND a C-Sync pin'

Not sure if you can use composite sync on your monitor.. maybe it will work but i've never tried it.

However, even if it doesnt work... since you are going to be using LM1881 anyway to provide a clean Sync rather than Video+Sync you can get both c+h sync from this chip so it shold work one way or the other.

Would be interesting to know if they take CSync though.

 

[MKL]

Yeah, just wire pin 1 of the LM1881 to HSYNC and pin 3 to VSYNC.

The scheme without LM1881 won't work. If you want to do without the sync separator you'll have to make a cable that sends RGB to the DIN-6 and composite video to the CVBS jack.

 

[Adderall]

Yeah, just wire pin 1 of the LM1881 to HSYNC and pin 3 to VSYNC.

The scheme without LM1881 won't work. If you want to do without the sync separator you'll have to make a cable that sends RGB to the DIN-6 and composite video to the CVBS jack.

Great!

So I my shopping list today is:
* 3 capacitors 0.1uF
* 1 resistor 680K

I might pick up a 470K as well because I heard those work sometimes if the 680K doesn't.

OK last picture. This is what I'm goin for.

 

[MKL]

Correct except for the 0.1 cap to the VCC pin of the LM1881.
5V from the 21-pin connector must go directly to this pin. The capacitor will have one leg on pin 8 and the other leg on pin 4.

 

[Adderall]

Correct except for the 0.1 cap to the VCC pin of the LM1881.
5V from the 21-pin connector must go directly to this pin. The capacitor will have one leg on pin 8 and the other leg on pin 4.

Doesn't seem right...are there really 3 caps that I need?

one over the resistor and one where you just mentioned?

 

[MKL]

That's correct. It's not a component that makes or breaks the circuit but it helps reduce the ripple noise in a DC circuit. See here to know more:

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/jun97/basics.html

It's often not even mentioned in schematics because it's common knowledge to use one for every IC. You don't see it in the diagram on page 1 of the LM1881 datasheet (and since gamesx copied that diagram noobs sure don't use it) but it's mentioned on page 4 ("power supply decoupling capacitor at pin 8") and it can be seen in the application circuit examples on page 9 and 10.

Just put it on top of the chip and solder the legs to pin 4 and 8.

Rather, ignore what I said in post #21. The LM1881 does NOT have a horizontal sync output so leave HSYNC unconnected on the DIN-6 and connect VSYNC to pin 1 of the LM1881.