The death of Trayvon Martin

NeoSneth

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Now that more information is coming out, it sounds like the defense tried to pull some BS on multiple fronts. They did themselves in for that.

There's probably dozens of lawsuits about to be filed by both parties. I still anticipate a net gain for Zimmerman. Book sales, appearances, and his own discrimination lawsuits.
 

evil wasabi

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Getting a CCW here is messed up. Damn near anybody can get one for no reason whatsoever but when I applied I was denied because I had undergone a substance abuse rehab in the past. No convictions, no arrests for substance abuse, purely done on my own volition but that was enough for them to deny me. Now I have neighbors that have had plenty of criminal citations written up to them for all sorts of public intox, disturbing the peace, etc. able to get a CCW with no trouble at all. Fill out the forms, take the class, wait a couple weeks, and get the card. Just messed up to me and I live in the bat shit crazy state of Florida.

Being so public about rehab is pretty questionable decision making right there.
 

Hidden Character

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Florida is the new Mississippi.

Florida: The state that shames even Mississippi. As for me, I'm very saddened by the verdict and things just became even tougher for me as a big black guy who doesn't smile in public, but loves to walk around the city for exercise and the last thing I need is to get confronted by some asshole w/an ax to grind when I'm just trying to be less fat.
 

evil wasabi

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Florida: The state that shames even Mississippi. As for me, I'm very saddened by the verdict and things just became even tougher for me as a big black guy who doesn't smile in public, but loves to walk around the city for exercise and the last thing I need is to get confronted by some asshole w/an ax to grind when I'm just trying to be less fat.

Yeah, it must be so difficult...
 

aria

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When Zimmerman is sued in civil court what kind of burden will the person's suing on Martin's behalf (his family?) have to meet/cross? Will they have to simply show that Zimmerman was partially at fault for creating the situation that lead to Martin's death? Will damages be awarded based on percentage of fault?

There's a really complex ball of possible causes of action (with multiple variations within each cause), and I don't know the specific requirements in Florida law, but generally speaking the plaintiff in a civil suit would be trying to show that Zimmerman acted in such a way that unjustly caused injury to Martin--at least such a manner that allows legal remedy. As you know, there's no "guilt" or "innocence" in a civil trial, rather the question is whether the defendant is liable for those actions: a legal remedy in a civil case is to make the plaintiff "whole" again, in this case compensating the relatives for a loss of life. As the OJ cases showed, this isn't as strict a standard as criminal liability: civil liability is generally a looser standard where the goal is to establish whether or not the defendant did something in the circumstances for which the law recognizes a remedy. Usually the standard is the "preponderance of evidence" rather than beyond a reasonable doubt and, of course, can allow for negligence that would otherwise not rise to a level of criminal negligence. Of course, Zimmerman did shoot Martin so this is going to probably see some claims for intentional torts on top of pleading in the alternative for negligent torts. If he's found liable, and it comes to getting compensation, the question is going to be whether he was acting in the capacity of working for an organization with deeper pockets since I doubt he's worth a whole hell of a lot (book deals, etc, are overrated in this day and age, IMO).


I should just go sign up to attend some shitty law school for my own personal amusement.

Hey, McGeorge isn't that bad (I think you should apply to Davis, I strongly considered going there and it's fairly close).
 

hyper

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can parents be found liable for injuries caused by an unsupervised minor?
 

Wachenroder

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Why should he have remorse? You can drink all of the MSNBC/CNN Kool-Aid flavored semen in the world, but you weren't there. You can't simply discount that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, that Zimmerman was being beaten up, that the ground is a lethal weapon, when you're being beaten into it.

People need to step back and apply blind justice - drop the entire color argument that has left people so angry and gaping with confusion. Just apply the facts. The prosecution only added Manslaughter as a charge at the end because they thought they could prove malice. Shouldn't it work the other way around? Should malice be something that a legal team arrives at after thorough investigation? No, these guys thought that malice was already there because black kid and white man with german name. Because ignorance.

The civil case will not be interesting either. This shouldn't be in court.

The problem that people are having the worst time grappling is that each state has its own laws. People are going crazy thinking "what if this happened in a state without a stand-your-ground law?" Well, for one, they would probably have to pay income tax then. The worst offenders of this mentality seem to be the people from California.

For starters, I don't think I ever once mentioned race so I don't know what the heck you're going on about. Two, hell yes he should be remorseful. He killed an innocent kid. That's no fucking joke. GZ made a huge mistake and had he a modicum of human decency he should at least be experiencing some form of remorse.

And yeah I wasn't there. Thing is, even if TM gained the upper hand somehow and was beating the shit out of GZ so fucking what. GZ is not any real position of authority so how was TM supposed to know he wasn't dangerous. Did Zimmerman properly and respectfully identify himself and his intentions? Knowing he had a firearm on his person, did he keep a safe distance so if things got physical the firearm couldn't be used against him? (serious questions). Even if he did those things which I doybt, he still wasn't supposed to be pursuing TM in the first place.
 
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Marek

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If I wasn't so sexy and in love with my reflection in the mirror, then sure. What neogeo games do you have?

I don't care what color someone is. Do you?

What in the actual fuck is this supposed to mean?

Are you trying to say you don't recognize the struggles of having people hate and stereotype you for simply waking down the road with dark skin?

If you were a Sihk getting pummeled for looking like an Arab you'd be singing a different time.

As is true with most things, your individual opinion does reflect the general opinion, which is that race does matter a lot and is a source of great fear to the common american.

Oh well I'm sure you're trolling and I took the bait... Again.
 
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evil wasabi

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For starters, I don't think I ever once mentioned race so I don't know what the heck you're going on about. Two, hell yes he should be remorseful. He killed an innocent kid. That's no fucking joke. GZ made a huge mistake and had he a modicum of human decency he should at least be experiencing some form of remorse.

And yeah I wasn't there. Thing is, even if TM gained the upper hand somehow and was beating the shit out of GZ so fucking what. GZ is not any real position of authority so how was TM supposed to know he wasn't dangerous. Did Zimmerman properly and respectfully identify himself and his intentions? Knowing he had a firearm on his person, did he keep a safe distance so if things got physical the firearm couldn't be used against him? (serious questions). Even if he did those things which I doybt, he still wasn't supposed to be pursuing TM in the first place.

If someone has you pinned to the pavement punching your face, you could die. If your nose gets punched up towards your brain, you can die.

How was anyone there not dangerous?

Fantasy world. Which one are you living in?
 

Wachenroder

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If someone has you pinned to the pavement punching your face, you could die. If your nose gets punched up towards your brain, you can die.

How was anyone there not dangerous?

Fantasy world. Which one are you living in?

Everybody is potentially dangerous. Don't start nothing, wont be nothing.

Plus if I had a gun on me, I know damn sure I wouldn't let somebody who I thought might be a threat get anywhere near me. I'm going to let him get in on me so he can shoot me with my own gun lol?
 

hyper

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Everybody is potentially dangerous. Don't start nothing, wont be none
I think every one can agree that great justice has been served

Spoiler:
k62XQ0l.png
 

evil wasabi

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Everybody is potentially dangerous. Don't start nothing, wont be nothing.

Plus if I had a gun on me, I know damn sure I wouldn't let somebody who I thought might be a threat get anywhere near me. I'm going to let him get in on me so he can shoot me with my own gun lol?

Keep in mind that the neighborhood had experienced burglaries. There was a watch for a reason. What if Trayvon was a burglar - think the burglar, when confronted, would be like "oh you caught me! I almost got away with it too!" Or would the burglar attack Zimmerman and try to get away?

Zimmerman probably didn't expect Trayvon to jump him. His bad. 4 minutes of talking/fighting before Trayvon got killed, and the biggest lesson people are walking away with from this is "there's racism in the USA, and black people have it so bad."

How about "maybe we need to teach our kids how to defuse a situation, rather than escalate it?" The tragedy here is that people are so bent on being victims in life, because being the victim means getting people do shit for you out of guilt. I have never treated someone unfairly because of being black. Anyone who feels guilty for the way certain races or ethnicities are treated probably is guilty.
 

ki_atsushi

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october-2011.jpg

Not saying he deserved his fate, but he wasn't a saint either.
 

cannonball

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Keep in mind that the neighborhood had experienced burglaries. There was a watch for a reason. What if Trayvon was a burglar - think the burglar, when confronted, would be like "oh you caught me! I almost got away with it too!" Or would the burglar attack Zimmerman and try to get away?

Zimmerman probably didn't expect Trayvon to jump him. His bad. 4 minutes of talking/fighting before Trayvon got killed, and the biggest lesson people are walking away with from this is "there's racism in the USA, and black people have it so bad."

How about "maybe we need to teach our kids how to defuse a situation, rather than escalate it?" The tragedy here is that people are so bent on being victims in life, because being the victim means getting people do shit for you out of guilt. I have never treated someone unfairly because of being black. Anyone who feels guilty for the way certain races or ethnicities are treated probably is guilty.

You're making too much sense for the average American (and apparently many in this thread) to comprehend.
 

Wachenroder

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Keep in mind that the neighborhood had experienced burglaries. There was a watch for a reason. What if Trayvon was a burglar - think the burglar, when confronted, would be like "oh you caught me! I almost got away with it too!" Or would the burglar attack Zimmerman and try to get away?

But he wasn't...and hey even if he was, that's still strictly a police matter and they were already in transit.

Zimmerman probably didn't expect Trayvon to jump him. His bad. 4 minutes of talking/fighting before Trayvon got killed, and the biggest lesson people are walking away with from this is "there's racism in the USA, and black people have it so bad."

lol yeah we're JUST learning that...

How about "maybe we need to teach our kids how to defuse a situation, rather than escalate it?" The tragedy here is that people are so bent on being victims in life, because being the victim means getting people do shit for you out of guilt. I have never treated someone unfairly because of being black. Anyone who feels guilty for the way certain races or ethnicities are treated probably is guilty.

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Are you talking about white guilt and are you saying racism isn't a big problem anymore?

Anyway I agree about defusing situations. That's critical. Problem is TM wasn't even the aggressor in this situation and GZ had no real reason to be stalking and harassing. Unless it's your job, a hunch is not a good reason to be fucking with somebody.

GZ was not in a position to call any shots and TM didn't have to give one fuck about what he had to say. GZ wasn't shit but a neighbor hood watch coordinator with a gun. The burden lies upon GZ to identify himself clearly, respectfully and state his intentions. Respect tends to breed respect. Like I said earlier I have been harassed countless times by gated security in various communities when visiting friends and family. They have not once been respectful to me. I have been profiled and straight up singled out, detained, searched and outright accused of committing crimes. Key difference there is a uniform/badge and a semblance of real authority so I know to behave myself even when i'm fucking pissed.

I don't know exactly how the conversation between the two went down, but if it was anything like some of the shit I've experienced then GZ had it coming. Somebody need to teach that fucker respect and it looks like Trarvon was doing just that. Too bad a fist fight had to end in bloodshed.
 
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