How can I tell if the MVS cart is bootleg?

I'm thinkin' bout a getting a Phantom-1 converter to play MVS games, and how can I tell if the cart is a bootleg or not?

Only sure-fire way is to open the cart and look at the insides.

Lots of wires and all eproms are a good way to tell you've got a boot.

EPROMS aren't a way to tell if you have a boot either, as some JPN MVS carts have EPROMS.

Buy the cart, crack it open, take some pictures and post them on the forum. It's easy to spot a boot once you know what the insides of a boot shouldn't look like.

I don't have any MVS carts at the moment. This may be a stupid question, but what the hell are EPROMS? I know everyone is gonna jump my shit because everyone on these forums are rocket scientists and know all that crap about arcades. I don't know if I should get a Phatnom-1 or not? If I stick with the homecarts, I'm gonna paying $100 for each game that I want. I have also no fucking idea, how to use a supergun because it takes a rocket scientist to know use it.

<small>[ July 19, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Jedite ]</small>

EPROMs are rewritable ROMs (you know the black chips on the inside of the carts, from Atari carts on to the N64?). Basically they can be used to program any data to them, which is why bootleggers use them. The legit carts that use them, they are likely used to repair stupid bugs and such after the carts have been manufactured OR are repaired by an arcade operator. Cheaper to use EPROMs than to have to go back and redo a whole batch of carts or to have to buy a new cart.

You can tell EPROMs as they look like regular chips in a cart, except in the center they have a "hole" covered by a piece of see-through plastic. Usually this is covered by a piece of white tape or sticker, as the "hole" is how you erase the EPROM (Ultra Violet light wipes the EPROMs clean, so keep 'em out of the sun). Covering it keeps UV out.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use a Super Gun. I have the MAS Super Nova and, although I was a bit leary at first, it is surprisingly easy to use. Get a JAMMA board. Plug JAMMA board into JAMMA connector, plug Super Gun into TV/Stereo, power up and you're ready to play. Simple, really. Of course, if it breaks, it is a whole different story. Of course, if your Neo home system breaks, what will you do? Super Gun parts are easier to get than Neo parts I'd say.

As far as getting a Phantom-1, keep in mind it isn't a perfect solution. From what I read (I don't own one) 95% of all the MVS carts (so long as they are legit) work with it (the newest model). 5% will not. Will you pick up one of those 5%? Probably not. All the "popular" games work with the Phantom-1 as far as I know.

Is getting a Phantom-1 worth it? It costs ~$300. AES carts run $50-$500 (or more) (depending on US/JPN and rarity). MVS carts run $10-$2000 and drop in price relatively quickly. If you buy a phantom-1, LB and LB2 MVS, you'll pay ~$380 total. Buy LB and LB2 JPN versions and you're looking at spending ~$400. KOF 2K2? Home=$275. MVS=$225. 6 months from now, the MVS version will be $200 or less. Home version? Still $275 or more if the Neo Store sells out.

And as far as money goes, AES Metal Slug 1=$1000-$2500. MVS Metal SLug 1=$50 (or less!). Pays for itself in NO TIME I'd say

You'll end up saving yourself a ton of $$$ going the Phantom-1 route if you plan on buying a lot of games. You just have to remember you don't get manuals or the pretty box/insert that you do with the home releases.

If you have more questions, don't be afraid to ask. Most people on the boards understand that there are some really confusing options out there and help is occassionally required to make sense of it.

The other reason to go for a Super Gun? You can pick up a Hyper Neo Geo 64 board and the 4 fighters for ~$500. Sam Sho 64 is worth the $500 alone IMO. PLUS, you can play just about any other JAMMA compatible game you can think of with it! Games that may have never been ported to a home system.

Just a curiosity question, where you at in MD?

<small>[ July 19, 2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: slerch666 ]</small>

Well, I really have no idea of what you're talking bout about the EPROMS. Because I have never have seen the insides of a N64 cart because I don't mess with that shit. I do want to get a Phantom-1 because the games that I want for the AES (Real Bout Special, KOF 99, KOF 98) are about $100 plus shipping and handling (most games are from Japan, so the shipping is about $20-$25.) I have another question, for example, I have a KOF 97 MVS cart and I'm playing through the Phantom-1, am I able to play the AES version since I have a debug bios chip for my AES system?

About the MD question, I live about 10 miles south of Baltimore.

<small>[ July 19, 2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Jedite ]</small>

Jedite:
I'm thinkin' bout a getting a Phantom-1 converter to play MVS games, and how can I tell if the cart is a bootleg or not?

Click to expand...

Try using the Search Feature from this site, under Tech Fourms. You will find that this question has been asked Many Times before.

You will find alot of useful information when using the Search Feature for most any questions related to the Neo Geo MVS/CD/and homecart sytem.

Try looking in the FAQ's link. wink

mine played like a pubic hair guitar, so i knew it was a boot

Jedite:
Well, I really have no idea of what you're talking bout about the EPROMS. Because I have never have seen the insides of a N64 cart because I don't mess with that shit.

I have another question, for example, I have a KOF 97 MVS cart and I'm playing through the Phantom-1, am I able to play the AES version since I have a debug bios chip for my AES system?

About the MD question, I live about 10 miles south of Baltimore.

Click to expand...

If you want to see what a real cart looks like, check out the ROTD internals pictured in this <a href="http://www.neo-geo.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=004941#000000" target="_blank">thread</a>. That's what the insides of a real cart should look like.

Here is an excellent site with pix of the insides of MVS carts: <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04" target="_blank">http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04</a> . It's run by one of the guys on this forum. Plenty of pics of boots and non-boots. Just read the descriptions and you'll see if they are boots or not. See the <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04/aaf" target="_blank">weird long chips with the "windows"</a> (right most and left most chips) in the link? Those chips are EPROMs. And the cart is a boot.

In the <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04/abk" target="_blank">picture here</a>, you get to see the layout for MOST MVS carts. That's PROG1 and <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04/abl" target="_blank">this</a> is PROG2 board. If they aren't layed out in a similar fashion, it's likely a boot. Any legit cart should have the SNK PCM chip (it's written really small on the chip itself).

The other way to avoid boots is to find the right supplier. MD Gamesales doesn't sell boots, and if he happens to do so by accident, he will replace the cart for you with a real one.

If you plug an MVS cart into a Phantom-1 then plug the Phantom-1 into your AES, you will play the home version of the game (unless it's a boot, then it's anyone's guess as to what will happen). It is all decided by the BIOS what version you play, and since you have a Home system BIOS, you play the home system version.

Since you live so close, you should try to make it to a get together sometime!

<small>[ July 20, 2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: slerch666 ]</small>

I do not have time to make a get together, because I'm busy with work and school. (I'm in college)

But, I have a Neo-Geo.com debug bios chip in my AES system, so, I able to play both AES and MVS version while having the MVS cart with the Phatnom-1? I thought you could only the MVS version exclusively.

Jedite:
But, I have a Neo-Geo.com debug bios chip in my AES system, so, I able to play both AES and MVS version while having the MVS cart with the Phatnom-1? I thought you could only the MVS version exclusively.

Click to expand...

All Neo Geo carts (either home or arcade) contain both the Home and Arcade versions, along with both languages (ENG/JPN). However you have your BIOS set is how the game plays, regardless of whether you are playing an MVS cart via Phantom-1 or an AES cart plugged into the system.

So, if you take an MVS cart, plug it into a Phantom-1 and plug the Phantom-1 into your AES and you set the BIOS to play in MVS mode, then you will play the MVS cart in MVS mode. If you plug the Phantom-1 in and set it to home mode, you would be playing your MVS cart through the Phantom-1 in home mode. You can also change the languages with the debug BIOS, so you can play ANY version of ANY game (MVS/AES in JPN/ENG). It's just like if you plug one of your home games in. You can pick the language and the type of game you play. You have the SAME control over the MVS carts through the Phantom-1.

SOME MVS carts may not work in home mode at all, but again, I don't own one so I can't tell you. I have a 4X BIOS for my MVS system and there are games, like KOF2K1 that don't work properly in AES mode due to encryption I think. It's my understanding from other posts, however, that this is NOT the case when played with a Phantom-1.

I'm hoping this is making sense.

As far as not making a get together, I work 40 hrs a week and I can make them on occassion. Evil Mike both works and goes to college and actually hosts get togethers. You really should give it a try sometime if you're off from work/school and someone has one. I suck at most Neo games and I go! Granted, I'm usually getting dead last in all the tournaments, but it's all about having fun.

Anyway, if this still isn't making sense to you, let me know where you are getting confused. You can always PM me if you want as well.

<small>[ July 20, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: slerch666 ]</small>

I am able to play both AES and MVS version when I have the MVS cart in the Phantom 1. Alright got it. But, I don't know any thing about the EPROMS. But, I don't know anything about the insides of the carts, so I pretty much don't know.

Jedite:
But, I don't know any thing about the EPROMS. But, I don't know anything about the insides of the carts, so I pretty much don't know.

Click to expand...

EPROMs are the chips with the windows (there is a link in a long ass post I made a little further up this thread). And again, EPROMs alone aren't the only way to spot a bootleg, as there are several official JPN MVS releases that have EPROMS. There is NO WAY to tell if you have a bootleg, usually, without opening the cart up. Just buy the cart from a respected seller, open it upon arrival, take digital pix of the insides and post them in the Tech Forum. Once you have a trained eye, boots are easy to spot, and most of the people in the Tech Forum have a trained eye . If you don't have anywhere to host the pix on the internet, just ask on the boards as people usually will donate the small amount of space needed to post the pix. Just a thought though.

On both edges of <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04/aaf" target="_blank">this pic</a> the long chips with the windows are EPROMs. They generally all look the same. If it has a window, no matter the size, it's an EPROM. See the chips with the <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04/aby" target="_blank">white covers</a>? Those are EPROMs as well. They are either "Official" EPROMs or someone repaired the carts. You can tell they are EPROMs because you wouldn't cover anything up on a regular chip (usually).

For bootleg and non-bootleg examples, again, check out <a href="http://www.jamma.nl/gallery/album04?&page=1" target="_blank">this site</a>. Once you get an idea what a bootleg looks like from there, and from personal experience, you'll become a boot spotting master (hopefully less from personal experience!).

I'm not sure what else you are looking for when it comes to EPROMs. Is there some specific information you are looking for?

Nevermind, forget I asked. Every board to me looks like the same. So, If I buy a MVS cart, there is no telling if it's a bootleg or not because you can't open it up. So, some guy on ebay, can sell a bootleg to you, you not even know it. That sucks.

Jedite:
Nevermind, forget I asked. Every board to me looks like the same. So, If I buy a MVS cart, there is no telling if it's a bootleg or not because you can't open it up. So, some guy on ebay, can sell a bootleg to you, you not even know it. That sucks.

Click to expand...

True, true. That's why I buy everything from MD Gamesales, Trieumenator (who runs the SNK-Capcom website) or reputable sellers here on the boards. Some games are more prone to boots than others.

Like the rarer games.

Are bootleg MVS Carts green?

Jedite:
Are bootleg MVS Carts green?

Click to expand...

The cart color is never an indication on whether something is a boot or not. SNK used/uses all kinds of colors for it's carts.

It's a label that doesn't say SNK on it can be a bootleg?

Jedite:
It's a label that doesn't say SNK on it can be a bootleg?

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Well, it COULD be, but people have been known to relabel things as well. Why relabel? If you havea Japanese cart and you want it written in English, just rip the regular label off and make your own. WHy else change the label? Well, if it's an arcade operator and the carts are left on for a while, the label can turn yellow from the heat inside the cab and from smoke and shit like that. In order to sell it and so people can tell what it is, they relabel it.

Most bootleggers try to get the carts to look as close to the real thing as possible, so they would print the SNK/Playmore name on a fake label.