Scored Amazing Craigslist deal on old pro monitor, RGB pinout question.

OK so I got this 27" monitor from a dude on Craig's List that is, frankly, amazing.

Its model# DTV28XF from a company called NetTV. I know what you are thinking, "What kind of late 90s Y2K Compliant piece of information superhighway shit is this? Does it say, 'Multi-Media' on it?" Well yeah, it does say 'Multi-Media' on it, but seriously, the thing is awesome.

Here is a shot of the rear panel:



Yes, this thing displays S-Video, composite, component, and VGA up to 1024x768. I've hooked everything from PC Engine to Dreamcast to it with fantastic results. Aside from some slight geometry issues (what CRT doesn't have geometry issues?) the image is fantastic. When playing Genesis games through S-Video things look basically perfect. This isn't some computer monitor with SD thrown on as an afterthought. There is no blurriness or transcoding artifacts and you can see nice thick scanlines. No lag. Totally pro. Street Fighter 3 on DC is just amazing.

It even has built in speakers, really fucking good ones, comparatively. There is even a sub in there somewhere. Its also totally flat, just new enough for that sort of thing (2002)

So why didn't the guy want it? Because it has no RF input. Useless to him, but rad as hell for me. I paid $20, and this is pretty much the best fucking thing I can imagine for SD gaming. I do kind of wish it didn't weigh 112 lbs (!), and it doesn't have the remote, but all in all...this is my best CL find ever.

So anyway, finding information on this thing is really hard. I really can't find anything on it at all except for a few specs here and there. I think I read somewhere that the guts are largely Toshiba. The manufacturer was so proud of this things HD credentials that the most low end signal they mention is 480i. I would like to try and hook up some 240p RGB signals to this thing and see if they sync, but the only RGB inputs (one front, one rear) are the usual 15pin VGA type (see pic). I would like to know how I should wire a normal RGBS signal to a 15 pin dsub connector like this. I have a hunch it can work, but I won't know until I try (or someone more knowledgeable about such things shoots down my idea). If its impossible, I can always use my XRGB2+ on it, but I'd like to save that for other uses.

Probably can't display true 15khz RGB. Probably VGA (aka analog RGB) only. Would be a great match for an XRGB though. Too bad you have the 2+, The 1,2,3 can all output in 15khz which would be a really easy way to test the TV's input abilities. Ironically the 2+ is the only XRGB with out this feature.

Great find though, lol about the RF. If you do actually want RF input, this TV would be a perfect match for a DISPL TV unit.

Well the thing says 15kHz when displaying Genesis over S-Video, but 480i and 240p are both 15kHz, right, so are there any tricks I can use to tell?

So why didn't the guy want it? Because it has no RF input.

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What an absolute fucking dumbass.

If you look closely at the rear panel there you can see the knock-out where the RF evidently went on some models. This thing even has channel up and down buttons on it for some reason, that don't appear to actually do anything.

Sounds like it doesn't have a tv tuner. Like most people, he probably just wanted something to watch his stories on.

Hasn't he ever heard of a digital set top box?

Most pepole haven't watched analog TV for at least 5 years mate.

Wow! Thats one hell of a find right there. Isn't it funny how people will throw the most amazing things away because they can't use it for a particular purpose. Knowing more than what you need to know is always a good thing, what an idiot for getting rid of it. Put it to good use!

Hewitson said:

Hasn't he ever heard of a digital set top box?

Most pepole haven't watched analog TV for at least 5 years mate.

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I think he wanted it for some satellite box or something. My Comcast cable TV boxes are both hooked up via RF. The analog noise is really nothing compared to huge blocky blobs of digital artifacting in the backgrounds. A cleaner connection, honestly, would make it look worse.

SignOfZeta said:

I think he wanted it for some satellite box or something. My Comcast cable TV boxes are both hooked up via RF. The analog noise is really nothing compared to huge blocky blobs of digital artifacting in the backgrounds. A cleaner connection, honestly, would make it look worse.

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I prefer analogu over a badly compressed digital signal that suffers from macro blocking.

When analog is switched off in the UK it has been said they will increase the Digital bandwidth to eliminate this (I hope!)

The guy probably has an old Scientific Atlanta 8600 that's been modded. They ouput RF.



i still have mine but they switched off UK analog cable a few years ago now.. I hear its still alive in well in other parts of the world though :-)

As for the TV.. you could try 15khz RGB.. might need to make your own cable.. get a SCART cable for a console and replace the end with an appropriately wired VGA end.

jew90 said:

As for the TV.. you could try 15khz RGB.. might need to make your own cable.. get a SCART cable for a console and replace the end with an appropriately wired VGA end.

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Yeah, that's exactly what I want to do. I just want to know what signals are needed since 15pin VGA has a lot of stuff that isn't used in SCART, RGBS, etc.

That is what you want to do I believe.

If you look at the VGA pinout (the picture below is backwards to the one above... pay attention to pin numbers when building..)



You'll see that the VGA uses Hsync and Vsync.... Since you only have one combined sync you can try wiring it up to just one of the sync's and see what happens.

If this doesnt work and you want to risk a few $$'s buy an LM1881 sync seperator or an elantac if you can afford it, this will give you H/V sync from your combined signal and you can use both syncs then.

Even then it might not work...

Yeah, I'll try that. Thanks!

I'm a little curious about this though. According to what I see here and elsewhere, pin 9 on the VGA side is "+5, VSA only" and you have it going to pin 8 on the SCART which is "switch aspect ratio", at least according to some shit I found. Is that for reasons of bi-directional communication between the display and the source?

I can wire it this way with things I actually have a SCART cable for, but what do I do with simpler outputs like straight up JAMMA? Can I get away with just , R, G, B, S, +5 and GND, and if so, where on the VGA connector do I put the +5 and GND?

SignOfZeta said:

Yeah, I'll try that. Thanks!

I'm a little curious about this though. According to what I see here and elsewhere, pin 9 on the VGA side is "+5, VSA only" and you have it going to pin 8 on the SCART which is "switch aspect ratio", at least according to some shit I found. Is that for reasons of bi-directional communication between the display and the source?

I can wire it this way with things I actually have a SCART cable for, but what do I do with simpler outputs like straight up JAMMA? Can I get away with just , R, G, B, S, +5 and GND, and if so, where on the VGA connector do I put the +5 and GND?

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The +5v goes to pin 8 and to pin 16 via resistor.

Pin 16 is to enable RGB

Pin 8 is to enable status / aspect ratio on some tv's. Some tv's dont need this but you need some voltage there to get a picture on others.. since you dont have 12v if it does go into 16:9 you need to switch aspect ratio manually or try to get picture without the pin.

Just an update, for posterity's sake...

I made an adaptor to hook up the R, G, B, and S lines to the R, G, B, and H Sync to the corresponding lines on the VGA in on the monitor an I get that f-up diagonally flickering image that usually means "it doesn't work".

Oh well, I'll just have to use my X-RGB2+ when it eventually arrives.

An odd thing about this TV: it doesn't support 480p via component. Luckily I have one of those little boxes from Key Digital that makes VGA out of progressive component just laying around, but that is weird for sure.

Try connecting the pin for v-sync to +5v. Sometimes monitors don't like having that pin unconnected.

SignOfZeta said:

Just an update, for posterity's sake...

I made an adaptor to hook up the R, G, B, and S lines to the R, G, B, and H Sync to the corresponding lines on the VGA in on the monitor an I get that f-up diagonally flickering image that usually means "it doesn't work".

Oh well, I'll just have to use my X-RGB2+ when it eventually arrives.

An odd thing about this TV: it doesn't support 480p via component. Luckily I have one of those little boxes from Key Digital that makes VGA out of progressive component just laying around, but that is weird for sure.

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Silly question, but was your adapter using R,B,B,S lines only? You need a ground going in there too. No ground = no picture.

Based on when that TV was made, 480i Component makes sense. The 2+ is the same. Does not support Progressive Scan through D-Terminal (component).

You guys that prefer RF over RGB or Component are absolutely fucking insane.

SuperDeadite said:

Silly question, but was your adapter using R,B,B,S lines only? You need a ground going in there too. No ground = no picture.

Based on when that TV was made, 480i Component makes sense. The 2+ is the same. Does not support Progressive Scan through D-Terminal (component).

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Sorry, yeah, I ran a ground, which is why I did get a out-of-wack picture instead of none at all. I only ran one though, I wonder if it would help if I made sure both were hooked up?

Hewitson said:

You guys that prefer RF over RGB or Component are absolutely fucking insane.

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I wasn't seriously saying that I prefer RF to anything. Its just that SD digital cable, at least where I live, is so fucking bad that nothing helps. Its like...the worst DVD you've ever seen, or maybe TruMotion on Saturn.

The RF is is like CPU-less full screen anti-aliasing! Also, I pretty much hate TV anyway so I don't give a shit.

Also, cable boxes in the US don't have RGB on them. Some have component, but mine only have RF and composite.

RF is the work of the Devil!

Just to be clear on what I mean (can't speak for others) when I said I prefer analog.

RGB is analog :-) Component (YPbPr) is analog too (although it can be digital aka YCbCr)

Fortuantly having always lived in places where scart connectors are common place i've always had great looking analog pictures.

Macro blocking is what I hate.. you don't get it in an analog signal.. sure digital is often higher definition (this is becuase it takes less bandwidth to broadcast a digitized hi-def picture) but you get this sometimes.



It's like the old 35mm film vs digital cinema... digital is getting just as good nowadays. It's a bit clinical for me but it's pretty good. Digital is getting better too, especially on movie channels etc but the lesser channels still have pretty bad macro blocking.

When this goes away I'll probably still moan about digital but wont mind watching it

If you want to convert Scart into VGA, try one of these....

http://www.keene.co.uk/multi.php?mycode=SBB92H

rcantor77 said:

If you want to convert Scart into VGA, try one of these....

http://www.keene.co.uk/multi.php?mycode=SBB92H

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I'm pretty sure that isn't going to work. It sounds like it just does what I already did. The TV doesn't seem to support 15kHz RGB, and no amount of rewiring is going to change that. As far as I can tell it needs to be 480p or better or it won't synch via RGB/VGA.

If I had one laying here I'd plug it in a try it, sure, but that sucker is 29 quid, which is kind of crazy, IMO.

rcantor77 said:

If you want to convert Scart into VGA, try one of these....

http://www.keene.co.uk/multi.php?mycode=SBB92H

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That cable iss not going to do anything unless you buy all of their other stuff.

If you look at the QA page.

1 Matt H on 27 Aug 2009 asked :
" Does this cable combine the H and V syncs into a single composite sync compatible with a domestic TV with rgb scart input?"


Keene replied: No it supplies H & V sync to the scart connection .It is really for very specific scenarios or for use with our RGB Black box sync converter.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From that answer, the cable is specific to their other products AND it sounds as the the cable goes the other way arond (VGA output to SCART input) as SCART doesn't have H+V sync usually so no idea how they have wired their scart plug up to have H+V sync from the VGA end..!


Theoretically speaking

You could wire up a SCART -> VGA cable yourself.

If you take the RGB from the SCART, take the composite video, strip out the Video signal to leave only SYNC, then split it into H+V sync for the VGA connector.

This would work IF and it's a huge IF that your monitor / TV etc supported 15khz RGB through the VGA port.

Mostly PC inputs on TV and nearly ALL but specialist monitors don't take 15khz RGB but you could try it if you really wanted too.

Since you have YPbPr component input why not get one of the Neobitz / Jrok encoders and feed the RGB into that and output the component video to the TV.

UPDATE:

For people anywhere on the internet that may stumble upon this info...

I managed to find a photocopied service manual for this TV on eBay. Actually, the manual is for a Sampo DTV29X, but they are really similar. I haven't really dug into it yet, but I did learn a few things:

All supported resolutions are spelled out in the manual, and it really does go no lower than 640x480 progressive on the RGB inputs.

I did learn some good things about adjusting it though, for that I'm really glad. This monitor has some barrel/pincushion/trapezoid issues and it was frustrating me that I couldn't adjust them. Well, if you are currently viewing the VGA inputs you can adjust all that stuff like with any computer monitor. The advanced geometry settings are only visible in RGB/VGA mode though. You can adjust them for the SD inputs, but for that you need to enter service mode. You do this by holding down the power button, pulling he plug, and then reinserting the plug (all with the power button still held down). The service menu will then appear where you can adjust all sorts of L337 shit.

I'm posting this now because there are a lot of these displays turning up at school auctions and stuff for even less than what I paid and its a great fucking monitor for gaming. Information is REALLY hard to find on it though. In fact, the expired craigslist ad for the very one I now own is on the first page of Google hits (I imagine this thread is pretty high up too). Anyone into classic games who stumbles across one of these monitors might really appreciate finding this info here (I certainly would have).