That Amanda Knox case...

Fox1

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html
OK yea she was found guilty... but something really irritates me about the jurors..."Six of the jurors were wearing red, white and green sashes -- the colors of Italy's flag." I find that to be a huge conflict of interest...it would be like if an Italian came here, killed someone and all the jurors were wearing red, white and blue if like saying "Our justice system showed you" or something to that degree....just really irritates me..I dunno why.
 
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It's a pretty strong message that her being an American, at a time when it's unpopular to be an American... was part of her crime and was a factor in their decision.

If it was an Italian woman on trial she'd be home now.
 

Cavalry

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She is without a doubt the HOTTEST convicted person to have ever been charged with manslaughter.
 

MKL

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html
OK yea she was found guilty... but something really irritates me about the jurors..."Six of the jurors were wearing red, white and green sashes -- the colors of Italy's flag." I find that to be a huge conflict of interest...it would be like if an Italian came here, killed someone and all the jurors were wearing red, white and blue if like saying "Our justice system showed you" or something to that degree....just really irritates me..I dunno why.

Because you're ignorant, that's why. In Italian courts popular jurors must always wear the tricolor sash, no matter where the defendant is from. And let me remind you that Knox wasn't the only defendant in this case. The co-defendant was Italian and was found guilty too.
 

Lagduf

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Because you're ignorant, that's why. In Italian courts popular jurors must always wear the tricolor sash, no matter where the defendant is from. And let me remind you that Knox wasn't the only defendant in this case. The co-defendant was Italian and was found guilty too.

Popular Jurors must always wear the sash?
 

Fox1

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Because you're ignorant, that's why. In Italian courts popular jurors must always wear the tricolor sash, no matter where the defendant is from. And let me remind you that Knox wasn't the only defendant in this case. The co-defendant was Italian and was found guilty too.

I don't quite understand..why is this?
 

MKL

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I don't quite understand..why is this?

Because it's an Italian court so it's just normal to see the symbol of the Italian Republic in there. Isn't there an American flag in American courts?
 

Fox1

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Yea, but not on the jurors...it's kinda hard to explain what I'm trying to say (and it doesn't help that I'm tired as hell lol)...in the U.S something like that couldn't happen because it would be seen as a sort of prejudice against the defendant (if he/she was from a different country). Something along those lines heh
 

ForeverSublime

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@MKL: I know you meant nothing by it, but in [American] English to call someone "ignorant" is a very strong word. It's okay to say "You are ignorant of Italian law/customs", but to say "you are ignorant" is like generally saying the person is an idiot (especially if you end a sentence with "that's why"... that is a phrase angry people use when they are trying to make someone feel less than them). :):):buttrock:

This will be a neat thread to learn about other countries.
 

TonK

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amanda-knox-p3.jpg


Shes not ugly.
 

abasuto

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Kudos to their legal system.

Two girls around her age here in metro Atlanta robbed 3 banks (at gun point). One of them got no jail time, just probation and the other got like 6 months in jail. Meanwhile, the get away driver, who was convicted of a lesser charge got 15 years in jail.

Does Italy have capital punishment ? and if so, how are they going to give this chick what she deserves ?
 

fighting mania

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Two girls around her age here in metro Atlanta robbed 3 banks (at gun point). One of them got no jail time, just probation and the other got like 6 months in jail. Meanwhile, the get away driver, who was convicted of a lesser charge got 15 years in jail.

related(sort of..) :

http://antimisandry.com/discriminat...-sentences-than-females-same-crime-14308.html

Males Get Longer Sentences than Females for Same Crime
Originally printed in: Los Angeles Daily Journal, August 1, 2001
Author: Marc Angelucci, Angelucci2000@alumni.law.ucla.edu.


When Etta Ann Urdiales was murdered in Colorado, two completely different juries convicted two different people of the crime. Both juries believed there was only one murderer. One convicted Bobbie Hogan, a woman. The other convicted Jess Jacobs, a man. She got 10 years in prison. He was put to death. This case is just one example of the discrimination men face in criminal courts throughout the United States.

According to Pradeep Ramanathan, vice president of the National Coalition of Free Men (NCFM), a volunteer, non-profit organization that has explored and addressed men's issues since 1976, "All the research clearly demonstrates that gender is the most significant biasing factor in determining whether or not someone will be charged, prosecuted, indicted and sentenced, as well as determining the severity of the sentence."

And Ramanathan is right. Department of Justice figures show that being male increases a murderer's chance of receiving a death sentence by more than 20 times. And the data repeatedly confirms that men receive higher sentences than women for the exact same crime. One study, published in Justice Quarterly in 1986, examined 181,197 felonies in California and found that, for the same crime, being male increased the chance of incarceration by 165 percent. Being black, in comparison, increased the chance of incarceration by 19 percent.

Another study, published in Crime & Delinquency in 1989, examined non-accomplice crimes and factored together the number of charges, convicted offenses, prior felony convictions, as well as the race, age, work history and family situation of the accused and found that "gender differences, favoring women, are more often found than race differences, favoring whites."

In yet another study, published in the International Journal of the Sociology of Law, researchers Mathew Zingraff and Randall Thomson found that being male increases sentence lengths more than any other discriminatory variable.

The bias applies to victims as well as the accused. When Edward Glaeser of Harvard University and Bruce Sacerdote of Dartmouth College examined 2,800 homicide cases randomly drawn from 33 urban counties by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, they found that killing a female instead of a male increased sentences by 40.6 percent. Killing a white instead of a black, in comparison, increased sentences by 26.8 percent.

Even when the exact same type of crime is accounted for, the disparities still persist. For example, a drunk driver who kills a black male receives an average sentence of two years. A drunk driver who kills a white male, four years. A drunk driver who kills a white female, six years.

To those who recognize the problem, gender stereotypes are a major culprit. In a 1991 NCFM report titled "Gender and Injustice," researchers John Ryan and Ian Wilson suggest the problem stems from stereotypes about women being more innocent, more reformable and less dangerous than men. Barbara Swartz, former Director of New York's Women's Prison Project, called it the "chivalry factor" and says, "If there were more women judges, more women would go to jail."

Others attribute the problem to the devaluing of male lives. But addressing the causes does little good when the public does not even recognize the problem. One reason that we don't is that the task forces that we appoint to investigate the problem are just as biased as the legal system that they are supposed to monitor, so a full picture of the bias never gets drawn.

In 1980, the National Organization for Women and the National Association of Women Judges formed the National Judicial Education Program to Promote Equality for Women and Men in the Courts (NJEP). In 1986, they wrote "Operating a Task Force on Gender Bias in the Courts: A Manual for Action," which became the manual used by gender bias task forces nationwide. The manual opens by stating that gender bias operates more frequently against women and that it is not a contradiction for task forces to focus primarily on bias against women in courts.

As one might guess, this is exactly what the task forces do. "None of (the commissions) study bias against men," said Ramanathan.

For example, even though men are more likely to get prison and women to get probation for the same crime, a New York task force claimed that it is women who were discriminated against because - get this - they receive longer probation periods. One commission recently justified giving women shorter sentences because women are often custodial parents. But the sentencing disparities persisted in the above studies that took family situations are accounted for. So even if custodial parenthood justifies a shorter sentence, courts are giving men longer sentences than women even when neither (or both) are custodial parents. Needless to say, when a father commits a crime, the courts have no trouble calling him an unfit parent and removing him from his kids.

The gender bias in our courts and in our gender bias task forces is not just an injustice to the victims; it is a tragic betrayal of public trust. In fact, as embarrassing as it sounds, we may need to create task forces to investigate the gender bias of the task forces that we created to investigate gender bias in the first place. ---
 

MKL

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@MKL: I know you meant nothing by it, but in [American] English to call someone "ignorant" is a very strong word. It's okay to say "You are ignorant of Italian law/customs", but to say "you are ignorant" is like generally saying the person is an idiot (especially if you end a sentence with "that's why"... that is a phrase angry people use when they are trying to make someone feel less than them). :):):buttrock:

It was in fact meant to be a strong word because his post came through as offensive. Thinking a jury decides to wear something to intimidate or humiliate a defendant amounts to thinking the country where that happens is not a civil country.
 

SSS

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it would be like if an Italian came here, killed someone and all the jurors were wearing red, white and blue

I guarantee jurors have worn the american colors in the courtroom. Especially old people and those little flag pins that everyone was wearing after 9/11
 

Ilovejapangirls

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I think TC should learn about other countries before being offended by their culture.

I m Italian and i take no pride in being italian , but assuming silly things that you could have learned just by searching with google makes you look ignorant.
 

RevQuixo

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To be fair, it was the original article by CNN that mentions the sashes as a point that is the "ignorant" one here. If it is common practice, it shouldn't of been mentioned in the context of the story as it has nothing to do with the relevance to the case. It's creating the appearance of a bias that really isn't there.
 

Ilovejapangirls

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No wait, did CNN really write something like that?

I hope they were not paid for that article .
 

fake

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Obviously it's hard to get all the details through the TV and paper, but I don't think she's guilty. It seems more like an out of control case of character assasination. The Italian tabloids loved to rip on her. From what I've seen the investigation was very unprofessional - they cross contaminated a lot of evidence and jumped to a lot of conclusions.

Thankfully with the Italian court system, she has at least two chances to appeal.

Super cute, too. I'd let her stab me.
 

Fox1

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It was in fact meant to be a strong word because his post came through as offensive. Thinking a jury decides to wear something to intimidate or humiliate a defendant amounts to thinking the country where that happens is not a civil country.


I didn't mean to come off as offensive..the article gave me the impression that it wasn't a common pratice.
 

racecar

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Kudos to their legal system.

Two girls around her age here in metro Atlanta robbed 3 banks (at gun point). One of them got no jail time, just probation and the other got like 6 months in jail. Meanwhile, the get away driver, who was convicted of a lesser charge got 15 years in jail.

Does Italy have capital punishment ? and if so, how are they going to give this chick what she deserves ?


if this happen in canada she would get 10y in prison max and she be out in 7 year and she get double time creditd to her time in custody so she be out in 3 years:cool: complete BS legal system

this is what happen a couple year a ago they found 3 guy dismembering a body in a bathtub in a apartment building( first during the evening multiple neighborer's complain about some agonizing torture screams from the suite and more file after to cops so the police went to investigate but never went inside the suite then later that night the suite below see blood dripping from his bathroom ceiling so he call the cops then when the cops came and they went into the the suite above they found 3 guys cutting up a body in the bath tub with a hack saw kitchen knive etc... all 3 where charge one got 7 year( he got previous record for manslaghter charge but is out on probation's( got 5 year and he out in 3 with probation) that he served for stabbing/killing a university student @ a bar) one for 4 and another got 3.

thats how pathetic the canadian justice system is:annoyed:
 
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HeartlessNinny

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Yea, but not on the jurors...it's kinda hard to explain what I'm trying to say (and it doesn't help that I'm tired as hell lol)...in the U.S something like that couldn't happen because it would be seen as a sort of prejudice against the defendant (if he/she was from a different country). Something along those lines heh

So if an American juror wearing a flag pin convicted an immigrant or foreign national, you'd find it suspect? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm simply curious.
 

HeartlessNinny

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if this happen in canada she would get 10y in prison max and she be out in 7 year and she get double time creditd to her time in custody so she be out in 3 years:cool: complete BS legal system

this is what happen a couple year a ago they found 3 guy dismembering a body in a bathtub in a apartment building( first during the evening multiple neighborer's complain about some agonizing torture screams from the suite and more file after to cops so the police went to investigate but never went inside the suite then later that night the suite below see blood dripping from his bathroom ceiling so he call the cops then when the cops came and they went into the the suite above they found 3 guys cutting up a body in the bath tub with a hack saw kitchen knive etc... all 3 where charge one got 7 year( he got previous record for manslaghter charge but is out on probation's( got 5 year and he out in 3 with probation) that he served for stabbing/killing a university student @ a bar) one for 4 and another got 3.

thats how pathetic the canadian justice system is:annoyed:

I agree that it's a little bit on the soft side, but not ridiculously so. You take the example of an extremely violent crime and assume that's what all murders are like — and that's simply not the case. The overwhelming majority of murders are 'crimes of passion', where some dude kills his wife's boyfriend or something. Most violent crimes are committed by people who aren't going to reoffend. It serves no purpose (other than to waste a lot of taxpayer money) to put people in jail for overly long periods of time. Besides, jail fucking sucks (even in Canada). I know a guy who's a prison guard. Trust me, you don't want to do time, even if it is for 3 years.
 

Fox1

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So if an American juror wearing a flag pin convicted an immigrant or foreign national, you'd find it suspect? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm simply curious.

I would find it suspect if 75% of them were wearing one...yes. Unless it was some national day or something
 

Lagduf

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So if an American juror wearing a flag pin convicted an immigrant or foreign national, you'd find it suspect? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm simply curious.

Heartless you very well know that we don't give foreign nationals any kind of fair trial.

We just lock them up in Gitmo!
 
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