Sega System 18 Care/Suicide Battery Question

What I am looking for is advice on how to prevent my system 18 board from dying. Anyone know how exactly how the SEGA system 18 suicide battery works?

I just bought a board that is working and would like to keep it that way. I am aware that there are resurrection kits for some sega system 16/18 boards. But there does not seem to be any info about changing the battery successfully.

Also, I have cleaned up many boards with great results. Can I clean this board without killing it?

The suicide part is the 68k or Z80 CPU. They are big ugly bricks with batteries molded inside. You can take them out of the socket and clean the board just fine.

BUT...

You can't easily replace batteries on them. When they die... they die.

And not all can be revived. Check with www.segaresurrection.com - he's bogarting the code.

channelmaniac said:

The suicide part is the 68k or Z80 CPU. They are big ugly bricks with batteries molded inside.

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I kinda thought that was what I was reading. So basically wait until it dies, then buy the kit to fix it.

The board is MJ's Moonwalker which I coincidentally bought the day before he died. There are 3 three versions (Japan, US, World) and I am not sure which version I am getting - should be the US. I think the guy on segaresurrection has kits for all three.

Just so you know I tried 3 Moonwalker boards and that segaressurection is full of shit. None of them worked.

And he charges $40 for a 68k and 2 eproms.

My Golden Axe worked just fine but none of the MJs were able to be revived. In fact everyone says they can't but he's the only person claiming he can.

Also the battery swap is pretty easy but once you open the FD you can't seal it the same.

I made a double socket for someone before for easy battery swaps. I might do a write up on it, debating.

Thanks XX, I would really like to hear more about that. I bought Moonwalker and Eswat boards this week. If there is a way to keep the games alive, I would definitely like to know how to do it.

I'll try to get one up soon then for at least the battery swap.

Great. So did you just make a double battery holder outside of the fd1094?



What is the wire attached to the top for...just to sabotage any attempt to look under the hood? Looking forward to whatever info you have the time to share in the write up.

Ya there is 2 booby traps to me in there.

You can view the tut here:
http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/tutorials.html?show=segabat

Thanks James! Nice tutorial. Does not look to hard at all. I think I'll make two of these.

One last question, I take it there is no danger in unsocketing the fd1094 while i work on it. CM seemed to think there was not...I just don't want to accidentally kill the board.

I could not reboot the moonwalker but when I was researching a little while back I came across this guy who swore on his first born he got his working, look on his site

http://supermik2310.blogspot.com/

Xian Xi did you get your boards back yet?


Testocules your AVP is running now but your never be as good as this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfB5opLmoWM

Testocules said:

Thanks James! Nice tutorial. Does not look to hard at all. I think I'll make two of these.

One last question, I take it there is no danger in unsocketing the fd1094 while i work on it. CM seemed to think there was not...I just don't want to accidentally kill the board.

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Ya it's fine to remove it.

Mainman,

Yup, got the boards dude, thanks a bunch man.

Ya that guy is full of crap. He posts a pic of the board and an emu shot...lol

I'll believe it when I see a full video of it running.

Testocules said:

What is the wire attached to the top for...just to sabotage any attempt to look under the hood? Looking forward to whatever info you have the time to share in the write up.

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That's a metal lid. The wire should be connected to the battery ground and is used to bleed off static charges if you were to touch the lid.

RJ

Got my CR2032 holders today,ready to get started when my boards arrive. Just realized Eswat is System16B so I need an adapter for that one. System 18 is Jamma, correct?

mainman said:

Testocules your AVP is running now but your never be as good as this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfB5opLmoWM

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.......no matter how good I become, I think I may always feel inadequate after watching that. Thanks for fixing my AvP - Awesome game - can't wait to suck worse than that guy at it.

Xian Xi said:

Just so you know I tried 3 Moonwalker boards and that segaressurection is full of shit. None of them worked.

And he charges $40 for a 68k and 2 eproms.

My Golden Axe worked just fine but none of the MJs were able to be revived. In fact everyone says they can't but he's the only person claiming he can.

Click to expand...

Good evening Gentlemen.

I would like to think I have the right of reply here, so I can refute these claims.

Firstly, everyone wants proof. I just recorded a video of my working resurrected Michael Jackson board. In fact it is the same board I tested Xian Xi's kit(s) in before posting them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LM4Hz8tXB0

You'll note the std 68000 and two replacement eproms. (I put stickers on kits I send out)

Firstly, I would like to say that my kits will not magically repair a broken board. I lay this out explicitly on the webpage. On reviewing my correspondence I suspect I didn't convey this adequately to Xian Xi.

I test every kit I sent out where I can. I definitely can test System16 and System18 games.

When Xian Xi said it didn't fix his first Moon Walker board he said that he thought there might be some bad tracks on the pcb and he would obtain a second board. This board was 'working when the owner put it in storage for a year, and then it never worked'.

This board didn't work with the kit install either.

I sent Xian Xi a replacement second kit FOC at my expense. This kit I also tested as working on my board.

According to Xian Xi, the first board was dead already and the second was also was dead. In hindsight I should have realised that most Moon Walker boards are still running, even with the FD1094 on it's last legs.

I received two emails from another friend of Xian Xi who was asked to look at his boards. After comparing rom images, we determined the kits were fine and the cpu was not the problem.

After this, I have not heard anything else from either of them.

If a Moonwalker board is running, then my kit will remove the need for the FD1094 and battery.

Xian Xi, if you wish to send back both kits to me, I will be more than happy to refund your $40 plus reasonable postage. pm me for my shipping address if you want to do this.

Chris
http://www.segaresurrection.com/

Sorry Chris but that video is horrible proof. It's dark and you can't see the wiring. If I had a working board and a dead board I could duplicate that video.

Also the second board was from a friend which we played a year before and worked perfectly fine before being put in storage for a year. I also had a 3rd board that I bought as working and arrived working and then I noticed some green stuff coming from the CPU. 2 weeks later it was dead. All I got was a blue line on the screen. That couldn't be revived either.

0 for 3 is just weird. Plus the fact that only you have a working resurected board makes it even iffyer.

Also why don't you release the rom images to the public?

channelmaniac said:

You can't easily replace batteries on them. When they die... they die.

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You can replace the battery, but you have to be very careful how you do it.

I successfully replaced the battery in my SMGP arcade cabs FD1094 before the Fd1094 encryption was cracked.

The trick is with the opening of the metal top, and using a helper battery. Unfortunately there's not the luxury of a capacitor keeping the sram contents like there is on CPS2.

In the future I intend to include picture tutorials on replacing FD1089, FD1094 and Galeco World Rally 1 & 2 batteries on my site. WR is particularly stressfull

channelmaniac said:

And not all can be revived. Check with www.segaresurrection.com - he's bogarting the code.

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If the FD1094 has been dumped and is in Mame, then I have a kit for it.

*IF* anyone has an undumped FD1094, and is willing to post it to me, I will dump it and if necessary the eproms, then return the FD1094 and a free of charge resurrection kit. If it is ok with the owner, I will also submit this to Mamedev for inclusion.

Chris
http://www.segaresurrection.com/

For what it's worth I've bought about a dozen Sega resurrection kits from Chris and they have always worked perfectly. He's a decent guy, always provides an excellent service and bends over backwards to help out with any queries.

I can't praise him highly enough.

IronGiant said:

For what it's worth I've bought about a dozen Sega resurrection kits from Chris and they have always worked perfectly. He's a decent guy, always provides an excellent service and bends over backwards to help out with any queries.

I can't praise him highly enough.

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I'm not questioning Chris himself as I bought a Golden Axe kit from him and it worked. Just the claim of a resurrected Moonwalker.

If Chris says that his Moonwalker kit works then it'll work, trust me. He won't lie or 'fudge' things.

As for the video being dark and that you can't see the wiring - what wiring is it necessary to see? There isn't anything extra in that respect, it's just a replacement 68000 CPU and a couple of new EPROMs. What the video does prove is that it works.

IronGiant said:

If Chris says that his Moonwalker kit works then it'll work, trust me. He won't lie or 'fudge' things.

As for the video being dark and that you can't see the wiring - what wiring is it necessary to see? There isn't anything extra in that respect, it's just a replacement 68000 CPU and a couple of new EPROMs. What the video does prove is that it works.

Click to expand...

So you are saying that I can't duplicate the video with a dead Moonwalker PCB? Trust me I can.

Xian Xi said:

So you are saying that I can't duplicate the video with a dead Moonwalker PCB? Trust me I can.

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I see what you're getting at - basically you're saying that Chris really doesn't have a working Moonwalker resurrection kit and that his video is fudged, correct?

Trust me, if he says it works then it works. He's an honest guy and wouldn't like about it or try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

As for why yours doesn't work I have no idea - perhaps there is some obscure incomptability that no-one is aware of, or could you have fitted the kit wrong?

You say that you've fitted his Golden Axe kit on a Golden Axe boardset before, and you say that the Moonwalker was working 100% before the kit was applied, is that correct?

Xian Xi said:

Sorry Chris but that video is horrible proof. It's dark and you can't see the wiring. If I had a working board and a dead board I could duplicate that video.

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Other than dragging out my jamma cab into the middle of the room and doing a pan shot, I don't know how I can do that.

Why would I go to all that trouble?

Anyway, another video. The pcb is in front of the screen. You can see the LED go on when I turn it on. I can't do better than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDS1ccsSJ98

Xian Xi said:

Also the second board was from a friend which we played a year before and worked perfectly fine before being put in storage for a year. I also had a 3rd board that I bought as working and arrived working and then I noticed some green stuff coming from the CPU. 2 weeks later it was dead. All I got was a blue line on the screen. That couldn't be revived either.

0 for 3 is just weird. Plus the fact that only you have a working resurected board makes it even iffyer.

Click to expand...

So, these are three faulty boards you are trying to put my kit in? Green stuff coming from the CPU means it was stored in a corrosive environment. Imagine what has happened to the rest of the pcb.

Other than sending you a complete Moon Walker boardset with a kit installed, (which I'm not going to do), there is no way I can sort this problem out for you.

Be happy with your resurrected Golden Axe. Send back the MJ kits and I'll refund your money.

Xian Xi said:

Also why don't you release the rom images to the public?

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I've already done that for other projects I've worked on, and I will continue to do so. (ie Ninja!!). With this particular project I decided that since I had spent so much time, effort and money working on it, I should get some return on my investment.

Not like anyone else is trying to profit on the Michael Jackson events.. The price people are asking for MJ arcade stuff has gone stupid over the past couple of days. Even for crappy jamma conversions.

Chris
http://www.segaresurrection.com/

I guess I'll just have to take it with a grain of salt for now.

JunoMan said:

So, these are three faulty boards you are trying to put my kit in? Green stuff coming from the CPU means it was stored in a corrosive environment. Imagine what has happened to the rest of the pcb.

Other than sending you a complete Moon Walker boardset with a kit installed, (which I'm not going to do), there is no way I can sort this problem out for you.

Be happy with your resurrected Golden Axe. Send back the MJ kits and I'll refund your money.

Click to expand...

2 were faulty, 1 was working and placed in a static bag for 1 year then dead.

It's not even about the money, I really don't care if I get my money back or not.

Of course I would like to see other people with revived boards but that will come later.

I would buy a working moonwalker PCB and put in a res kit but now a working moonwalker PCB is probably the same price as a titanium leg.

Oh also I'll have a member PM you for a kit as he said his moonwalker just died recently.

JunoMan said:

Other than dragging out my jamma cab into the middle of the room and doing a pan shot, I don't know how I can do that.

Why would I go to all that trouble?

Anyway, another video. The pcb is in front of the screen. You can see the LED go on when I turn it on. I can't do better than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDS1ccsSJ98

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That video proves nothing. And yes, you can do better than that.

You could show the RGB wiring going from the board edge connector all the way to the RGB connector on the back of the monitor so it can be ruled out that the picture displayed comes from another working, unmodded Moonwalker PCB hidden somewhere.

Note that I'm not questioning your honesty, moral integrity, ethics, hard work in any way. I'm totally indifferent to the whole matter (never even put a single coin into that game back in the day). I'm just saying that those videos you posted can't be used as proof that the board shown has been succesfully revived. BUT if you did what I suggested (which isn't difficult at all) you could shut Xian Xi up without having to offer him any refund.