For Public Record: Joey Connelly & Segasonicfan

Joey Connelly · Jul 8, 2006

Like recently with KPJ, I am more than willing to issue a refund to a buyer who claims the game I sold him was a boot. However, the buyer in question (segasonicfan) is being extraordinarily difficult, so I am posting the discussion between us for public record:

AUCTION: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180002272500

SEGASONICFAN said:
Hi,
I received the game today and it is a bootleg. I did not see the warning on the listing because I snipped the auction days before its closing (and before you added to the listing). However, this is beside the point. Selling illegal bootlegs is not only a federal offense, but strictly against both Paypal and Ebay policies. I would like a full refund and I will send the game back to you if you want. Thanks,

-Zachary

JOEY CONNELLY said:
It's a boot, eh? Well crap. I guess I need to be sure and send Yaton (where the game originated from) a nice Christmas card this year! Ugh...

Well despite the fact that the item in the auction was never stated as being original and was clearly being sold on an as-is basis (you really should pay close attention to auction listings if you're a hardcore NEO collector looking for something specific -- just my 2 cents), send the game back, and if it's returned to me in satisfactory condition, I'll promptly give you a full refund.

(Ya know, ultimately, I guess it's all for the best, as I kinda regretted selling the game after I shipped it off.)

Sorry things didn't work out.

SEGASONICFAN said:
Ahhh, Yanton is back again. He sold me a boot a couple months back and I took it to Paypal and they issued a refund to me and probably got him in trouble with the authorities. My patience is very llimited when it comes to bootlegs because they should never be sold anywhere for any reason. It doesn't matter if the auction is 'as is' or listed as a possible bootleg or not. Selling bootlegs as said before is against the law, Ebay's rules, and Paypal's rules. Send me the money back with $5 for shipping and I will send you your game back. I'm not very happy having to deal with boots again and I would like this to deal pleasently. This is a very fair offer and you can check both my Paypal and Ebay ratings to see that I am a very reliable seller and buyer. Just go to Paypal and issue a refund with the money I sent you and that way Paypal will also have a record of the refund so you know I'm sending your game back to you.

If this is not okay with you I will have to file a Paypal and/or Ebay disupte. I hate to go down that route but I have no patience when it comes to illegel bootlegged games. Thanks.

-Zach

JOEY CONNELLY said:
Okay, now you're just being difficult. I WILL NOT give you a refund until I receive the game back, and I will certainly NOT give you an extra $5. Send the game back and you'll get a full refund for what you originally sent me. This is standard refund practice and shouldn't be a problem.

If you want to deal with this pleasantly, then be pleasant. I don't know if the game is truly a boot or not and am willing to work with you on nothing more than your word alone. For all I know, the boards were original and you're pulling a switch-a-roo scam on me, replacing my original boards with some boots you have. So if you feel the need to contact the "authorities" without dealing with this in a nice manner, then have at it. But just be sure that you're able to prove that I intentionally sold you bootleg boards, or that you haven't replaced an original set of boards with some boots you want to get rid of.

Joey Connelly
Owner/Editor-in-Chief
www.TheJadedGamer.net

ulasamosa · Jul 8, 2006

segasonicfan is a very active and well liked member of this community. I can guarantee he would not pull a swith-a-roo on boards. Look at all his feedabck...he is a stand-up guy that everyone has had nothing but pleasant experience with. I would personally refund his money immediately. He WILL send your game back if you refund him, and as for the extra $5 for shipping...I'd do it...he's bummed out cause he not only got a boot, but have to shell out an extra 5 spot just to get his $ back, minus his original shipping cost. For the most part, people here are very fair and just want to do what they love, which is bootleg free Neo. my 2 cents...

JONESGFX · Jul 8, 2006

i'm with segasonicfan on this one, if you later ammended the auction thats a touchy subject because once i bid or begin to watch a auction i'm not reading the decription again. i would refund his money and put it back on ebay saying it's a bootleg. i see tons of auctions selling boots, I've even bought a few knowing they were bootlegs just so I could play the game since the original was currently out of my price range. I don't mean any disrespect but your post count is 2 on the board and both threads are about selling bootlegs, I don't believe you did it on purpose, but do understand there alot of people here that take their collection seriously.

Joey Connelly · Jul 8, 2006

As stated, I WILL give him a full refund when I get my game back. Simple as that. But I won't give him any extra money on top of it.

I'm as much a victim as anyone else.

Xian Xi · Jul 8, 2006

I'm actually dealing with someone that is pulling this crap on me too. I sold him a legit cart which of course has an eeprom and explained to him that some legit carts have eproms. So I told him if you want you can send it back for a refund of your purchase price. Then he wanted the refund right away and I told him I need to recieve the game before I issue a refund, then he asks for $5 for return shipping. Keep in mind when I listed my auction it had free shipping so I never charged him for shipping. Then he bitches and complains "I want my $75 back, not $70".

When has this "trend" started? Whenever I want a refund they dont cover my return shipping. When has it ever been like that? And my favorite part is when he used the buy it now option THEN asked me if it was a boot, which it is not.

I also told him I will go ahead and refund him $80 instead of $75 to cover the return shipping. And also said I am not responsible if it gets lost in the mail, so if the game doesnt reach me you are not getting a refund.

I'm not gonna mention his ebay ID.

But anywho Zach is a cool guy, I highly doubt he would do a switch a roo. I however do not agree with the $5 return shipping thing also.

bulletnyourass · Jul 8, 2006

Regardless of who the member is.... no one receives a refund until the item in question is returned to the seller. As far as the extra $5 for shipping ... thats a no go also. Whenever I bid on an auction I read the description daily until the auction ends. Thats why you are able to withdraw your bid.

There have been numerous times that auctions have changed (sometimes several times) between start to end. I'm not saying that segasonicfan is pulling a fast one either ...but he is asking for a refund before returning the merchandise and that is unacceptable.

Phillip

bulletnyourass · Jul 8, 2006

What MVS title was this for?

Phillip

Joey Connelly · Jul 8, 2006

Metal Slug 3

bulletnyourass · Jul 8, 2006

Joey Connelly said:
Metal Slug 3

I didnt know that MS3 was one of those heavily booted MVS Carts. What you may want to do is check all other carts you have up for sale to see if they are boots. This way you wont have to keep going through these situations. Yaton is known for occassionaly selling boot games. Not to mention there are a shitload of boots on Ebay.

Joey Connelly · Jul 8, 2006

Yeah, apparently for future MVS auctions I'll have to post high-res pics of the boards, a mind-numbingly detailed description of the item, a 10,000 word set of auction terms & legal mumbo jumbo, and have someone go to each prospective buyer's home and make sure they read about what they're bidding on before they do it. :chimp:

Of course, I don't deal in a lot of MVS selling as non-NEO arcade collecting is my main passion (this is the second MVS cart auction I've ever had), so I shouldn't have to go through this aggravation anymore.

Xian Xi · Jul 8, 2006

JONESGFX said:
i'm with segasonicfan on this one, if you later ammended the auction thats a touchy subject because once i bid or begin to watch a auction i'm not reading the decription again.

You CAN NOT edit the description once a bid is placed, it does not let you do so.

Plus I could tell from the label it was a boot.

This is a legit label:

Jedah Doma · Jul 8, 2006

I'm with segasonicfan for the most part on this one. As a seller, you have to be careful of not only what you are selling, but your perspective buyers. One example from my ebay dealings is I always have delivery conformation with each of my items that I ship out. Not for them, but for me so that some crappy buyer can't just say "Well, I didn't get the game" even if he really did. You also need to be very careful about what you sell as a seller. It is your responsibility to be as diligent and honest about your items. Take the extra time to make sure you have legit copies of the game. As far as "Well I said it was as-is so it's alright" being your all in one cover for it being a boot, that's kinda weak. Even if it was an accident, man up and do what you need to do without any excuses. It will make things go a lot smoother and easier for you.

I don't agree, however, that he should get the shipping back for the item. That's just part of the deal with ebay. Shipping is something paid for that is not the item. In the end, I think you should both have a little bit of give and take in this situation and it should go much better.

300wins · Jul 8, 2006

Xian Xi said:
You CAN NOT edit the description once a bid is placed, it does not let you do so.

Plus I could tell from the label it was a boot.

This is a legit label:

Just because a label is fake doesn't automatically make it a boot. It's inside what counts. And like everyone else, I am with segasonicfan on this one. And I know for sure he can't pull a switch a roo because I know for damn sure he doesn't even have Metal Slug 3 to begin with, which is why he bidded on the auction, so he can have one. Hopefully everything works out for everyone.

Joey - Wasn't your first sale a Metal Slug 1 MVS cart to KPJ that was also a bootleg? Maybe you should open up all of your carts and check before you sell them like someone suggested.

Hippo · Jul 8, 2006

MVS mess

Glad I stuck to NGH carts these boot threads are becoming more and more
frequent. It may take me a year to buy 8 games . But I don't have to put up with this shit lol lol .

Joey Connelly · Jul 8, 2006

I'm with segasonicfan for the most part on this one. As a seller, you have to be careful of not only what you are selling, but your perspective buyers. One example from my ebay dealings is I always have delivery conformation with each of my items that I ship out. Not for them, but for me so that some crappy buyer can't just say "Well, I didn't get the game" even if he really did. You also need to be very careful about what you sell as a seller. It is your responsibility to be as diligent and honest about your items. Take the extra time to make sure you have legit copies of the game. As far as "Well I said it was as-is so it's alright" being your all in one cover for it being a boot, that's kinda weak. Even if it was an accident, man up and do what you need to do without any excuses. It will make things go a lot smoother and easier for you.

I WAS being honest in the auction listing -- 100% honest. And I made no attempt at any kind of deception or anything of the sort.

And really, there's nothing for me to "man up to". The buyer asked for a refund, and I told him I would give him a full refund as soon as he returned my game. I don't really see what the whole problem is with that, and I also don't understand why he should get a full refund before returning the item and extort $5 on top of that.

I'm not an idiot, and I understand how business works. I can't go to a store, buy an item, and then expect them to give me my money back (plus a little extra) without me returning the item.

Piratero · Jul 8, 2006

Xian Xi said:
You CAN NOT edit the description once a bid is placed, it does not let you do so.

Plus I could tell from the label it was a boot.

This is a legit label:

The serial numbers on mine are in different positions. Well, my Metal Slug 3 has the transparent clear case... I know it isn't a boot because I just see "256-*" on the roms through the case

ironish · Jul 8, 2006

Joey Connelly said:
As stated, I WILL give him a full refund when I get my game back. Simple as that. But I won't give him any extra money on top of it.

I'm as much a victim as anyone else.

Personally I would do exactly what segasonicfan wanted. "Why?" you ask. Well because he could, if he wanted to, do a PayPal chargeback, keep the game and get the money back as well. He's trying to be reasonable and not do that even though he has every right to. Selling an infringing item is against the law, unfortunatly, whether or not the seller knows they are doing wrong. I'm sure in this case you did not know you were doing anything wrong.

My advice to you, Joey is if you bought these games from Yaton within the last 45 days and paid with PayPal, I would do a chargeback to Yaton. I don't like sellers who knowingly sell infringing items without the buyer knowing explicitly what he's getting into. I think Yaton's selling practices are illegal and immoral.

Segasonicfan is a good guy, and he will not rip you off. I've dealt with him before and he is an honest trader. Plus your game is a boot, I can tell from your eBay pic.

Best of luck.

RocketLawnChair · Jul 8, 2006

Joey Connelly said:
Yeah, apparently for future MVS auctions I'll have to post high-res pics of the boards, a mind-numbingly detailed description of the item, a 10,000 word set of auction terms & legal mumbo jumbo, and have someone go to each prospective buyer's home and make sure they read about what they're bidding on before they do it. :chimp:

Of course, I don't deal in a lot of MVS selling as non-NEO arcade collecting is my main passion (this is the second MVS cart auction I've ever had), so I shouldn't have to go through this aggravation anymore.

An MVS cart has 4 screws. How difficult is it to open it up, and check it's authenticity beforehand? :spock:

Doing so attracts more potential buyers anyhow.

It seems suspicious to me that someone who owns arcade equipment, and is aware of bootlegs, wouldn't check their cartridges before selling them. (Not to mention editing the auction about bootlegs later on...) Even without pics of the boards, it's reassuring to have an "authentic SNK", or "not a bootleg" (for example) in an auction. If I suspect something's a boot, and I receive a dodgy answer to a question...I don't bid. People should know what they're selling, and make others aware of what they're buying.

Asure · Jul 8, 2006

God why don't ppl check my friggin site before they buy anything. I mean, at that price a slug 3 original can't be had. You could see from a mile it was a bootleg. (label wrong.)

Although being a hardcore collector and hardware-modding guy, segasonicfan did not see it. Also, he should have really checked the auction before sniping.

Which brings us to the point of the actual exchange, i see no problem here and would agree with the seller. He's been honest, and when he became unsure about it being a boot or not, added the description to his auction. He was never out to make a quick buck on a MS3 boot so it seems to me.

p.s. When you win an auction, don't you get a reminder by email with the item description ? Or doesn't this always happen ?

- Alex

Darren870 · Jul 8, 2006

ironish said:
Personally I would do exactly what segasonicfan wanted. "Why?" you ask. Well because he could, if he wanted to, do a PayPal chargeback, keep the game and get the money back as well. He's trying to be reasonable and not do that even though he has every right to. Selling an infringing item is against the law, unfortunatly, whether or not the seller knows they are doing wrong. I'm sure in this case you did not know you were doing anything wrong.

My advice to you, Joey is if you bought these games from Yaton within the last 45 days and paid with PayPal, I would do a chargeback to Yaton. I don't like sellers who knowingly sell infringing items without the buyer knowing explicitly what he's getting into. I think Yaton's selling practices are illegal and immoral.

Segasonicfan is a good guy, and he will not rip you off. I've dealt with him before and he is an honest trader. Plus your game is a boot, I can tell from your eBay pic.

Best of luck.

Paypal makes you ship the game before doing a charge back. He needs to send first and do NOT give him any money for shipping, just the refund.

Thats his own fucking fault for sniping the auction.

RocketLawnChair · Jul 8, 2006

Asure said:
You could see from a mile it was a bootleg. (label wrong.)

A replacement label doesn't necessarily mean something's a bootleg, but it's usually a sign. My WindJammers for example has a pretty good replacement label, and it's legit (like all of my carts).

Darren870 · Jul 8, 2006

Asure said:
God why don't ppl check my friggin site before they buy anything. I mean, at that price a slug 3 original can't be had. You could see from a mile it was a bootleg. (label wrong.)

Although being a hardcore collector and hardware-modding guy, segasonicfan did not see it. Also, he should have really checked the auction before sniping.

Which brings us to the point of the actual exchange, i see no problem here and would agree with the seller. He's been honest, and when he became unsure about it being a boot or not, added the description to his auction. He was never out to make a quick buck on a MS3 boot so it seems to me.

p.s. When you win an auction, don't you get a reminder by email with the item description ? Or doesn't this always happen ?

- Alex

You need to label the pictures better, no one wants to go through each game picture to finally get the one they want.

BIG · Jul 8, 2006

Refund should only be given once the actual goods is received. The buyer is also responsible for any/all return shipping expenses. This is the standard return policy in which most major companies/corporations go by.

B-

Asure · Jul 8, 2006

LustForLard said:
You need to label the pictures better, no one wants to go through each game picture to finally get the one they want.

Done. Sorting on title as well now. Thanks for the tip

Joey Connelly · Jul 8, 2006

Well instead of just sending the game back to me or even replying to my e-mail, Segasonicfan went ahead and filed a report with PayPal with quite a few innaccuracies:

I placed an auction snipe for this Metal Slug 3 cartridge on June 29th prior to the seller's warning that was added to the listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...80002272500&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1 The seller warned that this "may or may not" be a bootlegged game. However, Ebay and Paypal take clear stances against the selling of pirated/bootlegged items. It is illegal. When the game arrived in the mail I checked to see if it was a bootleg and this is what it looks like: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0398.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0397.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0399.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0400.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0401.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0402.jpg Very obviously not an officially licensed product. Some of the chips are even made by Intel (?) and the boards are filthy too. I told the seller about this and he mentioned he had bought the cart from Yanton, whom I filed a previous dispute with for selling bootlegs. However, this seller knew he was selling a possible bootleg and didn't end the listing or try to compensate for it when I told him. He told me if I ship the game back to him that after he receives it and checks it he will send my money back. but why should I have to: A)go to the post office spending my time packaging the game and B) pay for return shipping when he sold me an illegal bootleg?? I only asked $5 for the return shipping and that he issue a refund through Paypal. He refused this and accused me of swapping the game. Not only is this obviously not the case as anyone can tell from looking at the auction (game has a fake label and mini marquee) but it's also insulting. I just want my money refunded with $5 shipping and I will send the game back.

I guess the game is, as they say, "afoot".

For Public Record: Joey Connelly & Segasonicfan

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