Disabled SNES lockout but game still won't run - Finished 50/60hz mod!

Argentina94 · Mar 25, 2006

I disabled Pin #4 on the lockout chip of my SNES and the american games play fine (I checked to make sure I didn't mess up the contacts)

I plugged in ISS Deluxe which I just got in from the UK and I get the "This game is not compatible with your Super Famicom or Super NES system" message.

Does this mean I also need to add a 50/60 switch too or did I do the lockout mod wrong?

I'm pretty sure that without the mod, that message wouldn't even display so I think I did it right.

Any suggestions?

Kunio · Mar 26, 2006

Yes, if you get that message with a UK (PAL) game on an NTSC (US/CAN) SNES system, the lockout chip is fully disabled. What you need to do now is to fit a 50Hz/60Hz switch and you will be fine. You will probably just need to boot the game in 50Hz and then you can switch to 60Hz a few seconds into the game after the region check is completed. A few games perform region checks at random throughout the game, but it's rare and I don't think ISS Deluxe is one of them. Good luck.

soopafamicom · Mar 26, 2006

Kunio is correct,you do need to fit a 50/60hz switch on your machine.

I have found that there are several other games that need to be booted up in the correct region before you can switch over,they are -

Super Metroid
Donkey Kong Trilogy
Dracula XX(Vampire's Kiss)
WildTrax(Stunt Race FX)
Yossi's Island(Yoshi's Island)
R-Type III
Arkanoid
Lethal Enforcers
Kirby's Dream Course
Demons Crest

There is one other small cloud on your imminent horizon though.There are a number of PAL games that have been optimised for the PAL market.These have had the code altered slightly from the NTSC original to increase the speed of the game so that although you still get the horrible PAL borders the actual game speed is more akin to the NTSC version.

PAL games that I have found that don't like to be run in 60hz are -
Super Mario Kart (runs VERY fast,sky flashes)
Mario Allstars (the sky areas sometimes flash)
StarWing (has a vertical bar of corrupted graphics)
Striker (unplayable)
Pilotwings(most of game is fine,small amount of flashing on skydiving level)
Mario World(if you have the original copy of MW that came with the snes,that should be ok,I think the code is MW-UKV,this version runs fine.The later versions MW-UKV1 and MW-UKV2(yellow box version and the later red box,black label classics version,have flashing on the title screen and when you complete a level,but not in game).

If ISS happens to be one of those that has been optimised for the PAL market(I can't help as I havent got the game) and you get graphical corruption or faults when playing you'll just have to play it in 50hz mode(when you have got it switched of course).

Let me know how you go on as I would like to know so I can add it to my list.

Argentina94 · Mar 26, 2006

Thanks for your replys fellas.

Good to see I disabled the lockout just fine then.

OK, about the 50/60 switch. I know that I have to liftpins 24 and 30 of the two large chips near the power button (1 pin per chip, from what I see on the gamesx site mod). What exactly do these pins represent?

What would happen if I simply lift the pins? Since I have two SNES machines, could I for the moment leave one at strictly 50hz just to play the game?

Thing is the hardware store close to home is closed today and I'd just like to try out the game until tomorrow until I get the switch and resistor I need.

I did find a switch here in my workshop yesterday but unfortunately has only two contacts, not three as described in gamesx' mod instructions and according to it, I need to use all three contacts.

I'm also expecting the first ISS for SNES soon in the mail and it's possible that game does not require the region check as Deluxe does. I'll find out once it comes in and I plug it in.

BTW, running a PAL game in 50hz on my set here means that I get black borders and that the game will run slower than it should?

Thanks.

EDIT: I just noticed something when removing the power switch from the SNES. I have a third console that doesn't work. Now, the power switch has a positive and negative like a normal selector. There is a middle protrusion but no hole for a wire. If this middle protrusion is connected to the switch, could I then source the power switch from my busted SNES and use that as my 50/60hz switch? I just need to get a resistor then for the O+ connection and connect a wire to the middle connector on the switch.

Possible?

Kunio · Mar 28, 2006

OK, about the 50/60 switch. I know that I have to lift pins 24 and 30 of the two large chips near the power button (1 pin per chip, from what I see on the gamesx site mod). What exactly do these pins represent?

These are the PPU chips (Picture Processing Unit) and lifting the pin and switching them basically toggles between 50Hz and 60Hz. If these pins receive 0V (GND), the chips run at 60Hz. If you hook them up to +5V, they run at 50Hz. This is where the switch comes in so you can toggle between these modes at leisure.

What would happen if I simply lift the pins? Since I have two SNES machines, could I for the moment leave one at strictly 50hz just to play the game?

Thing is the hardware store close to home is closed today and I'd just like to try out the game until tomorrow until I get the switch and resistor I need.

If you simply lift the pins, they system *should* run at 60Hz (as it usually does in your case since it's an NTSC system). It may however be unstable. I think I have tried that in the past. Sometimes it may not start if I remember correctly. Whatever happens, you will not be able to run your system at 50Hz by just lifting the pins.

You can, however, just lift the pins and hook them up to +5V with a wire which will lock the system to 50Hz in case you don't have access to a switch at the moment. However, the import protection in your NTSC carts will detect the system as PAL and will not play if they are protected. Your ISS game will however work. I know that the diagram on Gamesx includes a resistor. I have never ever used this resistor and it works just fine anyway and it has done so since 1993 when I got my first switched SNES system without resistor. I don't really know why you need it. The chips change modes at 0V (GND) and 5V and I always take 0V (GND) and 5V from the regulator (correct word? I mean the three pin component screwed to the cooling shield near the fuse inside the system). I have never understood why you need to turn the voltage down with a resistor. It sounds like running off-spec to me. I have never had a problem running without the resistor. Do as you wish, resistors are very cheap.

I did find a switch here in my workshop yesterday but unfortunately has only two contacts, not three as described in gamesx' mod instructions and according to it, I need to use all three contacts.

You may be able to use the two contact switch you have found, but the NTSC mode may be unstable without the third pin. I should get a 3-pin switch to get it done correctly at once.

I'm also expecting the first ISS for SNES soon in the mail and it's possible that game does not require the region check as Deluxe does. I'll find out once it comes in and I plug it in.

The first ISS (PAL) has a similar region check as the Deluxe version.

BTW, running a PAL game in 50hz on my set here means that I get black borders and that the game will run slower than it should?

Yes, you will get the black borders. If you have a switch, start the game at 50Hz and switch to 60Hz a few seconds into the game after the region check is completed. It's OK to switch modes while the power is on, don't worry.

Thanks.

EDIT: I just noticed something when removing the power switch from the SNES. I have a third console that doesn't work. Now, the power switch has a positive and negative like a normal selector. There is a middle protrusion but no hole for a wire. If this middle protrusion is connected to the switch, could I then source the power switch from my busted SNES and use that as my 50/60hz switch? I just need to get a resistor then for the O+ connection and connect a wire to the middle connector on the switch.

Possible?

I don't think the power switch from a SNES will work. If I am not mistaken, they are of a so called "ON-OFF" model. You need an "ON-ON" mode switch to be able to toggle modes.

Argentina94 · Mar 28, 2006

Kunio said:
OK, about the 50/60 switch. I know that I have to lift pins 24 and 30 of the two large chips near the power button (1 pin per chip, from what I see on the gamesx site mod). What exactly do these pins represent?

These are the PPU chips (Picture Processing Unit) and lifting the pin and switching them basically toggles between 50Hz and 60Hz. If these pins receive 0V (GND), the chips run at 60Hz. If you hook them up to +5V, they run at 50Hz. This is where the switch comes in so you can toggle between these modes at leisure.

What would happen if I simply lift the pins? Since I have two SNES machines, could I for the moment leave one at strictly 50hz just to play the game?

Thing is the hardware store close to home is closed today and I'd just like to try out the game until tomorrow until I get the switch and resistor I need.

If you simply lift the pins, they system *should* run at 60Hz (as it usually does in your case since it's an NTSC system). It may however be unstable. I think I have tried that in the past. Sometimes it may not start if I remember correctly. Whatever happens, you will not be able to run your system at 50Hz by just lifting the pins.

You can, however, just lift the pins and hook them up to +5V with a wire which will lock the system to 50Hz in case you don't have access to a switch at the moment. However, the import protection in your NTSC carts will detect the system as PAL and will not play if they are protected. Your ISS game will however work. I know that the diagram on Gamesx includes a resistor. I have never ever used this resistor and it works just fine anyway and it has done so since 1993 when I got my first switched SNES system without resistor. I don't really know why you need it. The chips change modes at 0V (GND) and 5V and I always take 0V (GND) and 5V from the regulator (correct word? I mean the three pin component screwed to the cooling shield near the fuse inside the system). I have never understood why you need to turn the voltage down with a resistor. It sounds like running off-spec to me. I have never had a problem running without the resistor. Do as you wish, resistors are very cheap.

I did find a switch here in my workshop yesterday but unfortunately has only two contacts, not three as described in gamesx' mod instructions and according to it, I need to use all three contacts.

You may be able to use the two contact switch you have found, but the NTSC mode may be unstable without the third pin. I should get a 3-pin switch to get it done correctly at once.

I'm also expecting the first ISS for SNES soon in the mail and it's possible that game does not require the region check as Deluxe does. I'll find out once it comes in and I plug it in.

The first ISS (PAL) has a similar region check as the Deluxe version.

BTW, running a PAL game in 50hz on my set here means that I get black borders and that the game will run slower than it should?

Yes, you will get the black borders. If you have a switch, start the game at 50Hz and switch to 60Hz a few seconds into the game after the region check is completed. It's OK to switch modes while the power is on, don't worry.

Thanks.

EDIT: I just noticed something when removing the power switch from the SNES. I have a third console that doesn't work. Now, the power switch has a positive and negative like a normal selector. There is a middle protrusion but no hole for a wire. If this middle protrusion is connected to the switch, could I then source the power switch from my busted SNES and use that as my 50/60hz switch? I just need to get a resistor then for the O+ connection and connect a wire to the middle connector on the switch.

Possible?

I don't think the power switch from a SNES will work. If I am not mistaken, they are of a so called "ON-OFF" model. You need an "ON-ON" mode switch to be able to toggle modes.

Thanks for replying to my questions.

I've gone to Circuit City and they only sell resistors in bulk. I don't have a surplus store nearby.

I'll wire it using just a wire and see what happens. I have two systems so if I mess up one, I have the other to do it right.

Again, thanks.

Argentina94 · Mar 28, 2006

OK,

I wired it using the SNES switch (No, it only works in 50hz mode as the other position simply turns it off) and then I wired it directly to the +5 (O). In both cases the game worked but it looked as if the vertical hold on my TV mess messed up as it kept scrolling.

Either I have no choice but to use the resistor or my TV does not like to display in 50hz.

This was something unexpected to say the least.

Argentina94 · Mar 28, 2006

Success!

Found a three point switch and connected it.

Now I know what the resistor is used for, it's to PROPERLY display a 50hz signal on an NTSC set.

In other words, I left it without the resistor and turned on the game in 50hz. Once I saw the Konami logo displayed, I switched to 60hz and then the TV displayed normally without the vertical hold problem.

Since I have no intention of ever displaying the thing in strictly 50hz, no sense including the resistor after all.

Thanks for the help guys.

Soopafamicom - Just so you know, ISS Deluxe works perfectly in 60hz, it's not optimized for PAL at all. I would assume then when my ISS arrives, it will work the same since the game is older.

Argentina94 · Mar 28, 2006

Arg!!!

Just as I was putting everything together and soldering the wiries onto the newly mounted switch, the pin #24 broke off!!!!

I resoldered it to the remaining tiny nub on the chip but to get the solder small enough so it doesn't bridge the other pins is a nightmare. Not to mention if I actually got it on the damn spot!

Oh well, when I get home I guess I'll see if the repair was a success. Good thing I have another SNES as a backup but crap, I wanted to do this with both consoles!

Lime2K · Mar 29, 2006

If you have a broken SNES, you could always desolder the whole chip and replace it (although I know it would be a bitch to do).

Argentina94 · Mar 29, 2006

Lime2K said:
If you have a broken SNES, you could always desolder the whole chip and replace it (although I know it would be a bitch to do).

True, but if I went ahead with that kind of job, I need to know which one might be the culprit. None looked burnt, unfortunately.

It's not a big deal though, I won't go crazy on an inexpensive system. I'll just get another one I guess.

Thanks anyway.

Kunio · Mar 29, 2006

Too bad you broke the pin.. I don't know what happened really but I don't like to solder components to chips directly because they are too stiff. I always put a wire inbetween to allow some movement or put the component in a more sturdy area. (How about the switch itself for instance..?)

Thanks for telling me what the resistor was for. I used to live in a PAL area where people mod their systems to NTSC. You did the other way around and that's why I never had the chance to see what the resistor was for. It doesn't really matter anyway. Do what works for you.

If you successfully hook the wire to the chip itself (possible but difficult), please make sure to put some glue on it to make it stay in place. I usually use hot glue for this purpose..

Argentina94 · Mar 29, 2006

Kunio said:
Too bad you broke the pin.. I don't know what happened really but I don't like to solder components to chips directly because they are too stiff. I always put a wire inbetween to allow some movement or put the component in a more sturdy area. (How about the switch itself for instance..?)

Thanks for telling me what the resistor was for. I used to live in a PAL area where people mod their systems to NTSC. You did the other way around and that's why I never had the chance to see what the resistor was for. It doesn't really matter anyway. Do what works for you.

If you successfully hook the wire to the chip itself (possible but difficult), please make sure to put some glue on it to make it stay in place. I usually use hot glue for this purpose..

I tried but there's not much left of the chip to solder a wire to but glue is an excellent idea.

I tried the mod with another system I have and did it right though the system is somewhat defective.

Some games won't play, others will go black after the opening credits, other display garbled words at power on.

I'd like to try and repair it but I'll be damned where to start.

Kunio · Mar 30, 2006

If you use glue, you have to solder first or it will never work. I have made the same mistake once and I actually successfully fixed it by gluing it after soldering. try to scrape the area on the chip with a razor to get better access to the actual pin before soldering. The system is basically broken anyway, so you don't really have anything to lose.

If you get garbled graphics, it sounds like there may be a problem with the cart port. On most SNES models, the cart port is detachable. If you have the mother board in your hand there are no screws or anything holding it in place and you can take it off using your hands. If the cart port is covered with a metal shielding it's detachable, if it has black plastic on its outer sides it's probably soldered and won't come off easily. A detachable cart port comes off easily so just pull with your hands, you don't need to pry it off or anything like that. Change the cart ports between the garbled system and the one with the broken pin to see what happens.

If the mother board on the garbled system is very dirty, you may have a short somewhere even though you can't see it. In that case, wash the board thoroughly.

Lime2K was talking about replacing chips to fix one of them. How about replacing the chip you broke the pin off from with a similar chip from your garbled system? If you have dead chips on the garbled system, I would suspect unstable memory banks to begin with since games work but cut after a while. Maybe one bank is OK but when the game tries to read from another one (which is broken) the game crashes. I have never seen this before though so this is just a theory.

Superfamifreak · Mar 30, 2006

soopafamicom said:
I have found that there are several other games that need to be booted up in the correct region before you can switch over,

You can add PLOK! to that list.

soopafamicom said:
There is one other small cloud on your imminent horizon though.There are a number of PAL games that have been optimised for the PAL market.These have had the code altered slightly from the NTSC original to increase the speed of the game so that although you still get the horrible PAL borders the actual game speed is more akin to the NTSC version.

FIFA International Soccer and Super Tennis are another 2 games that have been optimised for PAL.

Argentina94 · Mar 30, 2006

Kunio said:
If you use glue, you have to solder first or it will never work. I have made the same mistake once and I actually successfully fixed it by gluing it after soldering. try to scrape the area on the chip with a razor to get better access to the actual pin before soldering. The system is basically broken anyway, so you don't really have anything to lose.

If you get garbled graphics, it sounds like there may be a problem with the cart port. On most SNES models, the cart port is detachable. If you have the mother board in your hand there are no screws or anything holding it in place and you can take it off using your hands. If the cart port is covered with a metal shielding it's detachable, if it has black plastic on its outer sides it's probably soldered and won't come off easily. A detachable cart port comes off easily so just pull with your hands, you don't need to pry it off or anything like that. Change the cart ports between the garbled system and the one with the broken pin to see what happens.

If the mother board on the garbled system is very dirty, you may have a short somewhere even though you can't see it. In that case, wash the board thoroughly.

Lime2K was talking about replacing chips to fix one of them. How about replacing the chip you broke the pin off from with a similar chip from your garbled system? If you have dead chips on the garbled system, I would suspect unstable memory banks to begin with since games work but cut after a while. Maybe one bank is OK but when the game tries to read from another one (which is broken) the game crashes. I have never seen this before though so this is just a theory.

Excellent idea, it never occured to me to scrape the area of the chip to access the pin. You're right, I have nothing to lose, especially since the system works fine otherwise. I was wondering, instead of hot glue, can silicone be a substitute?

As for the other system which crashes, I have already swapped the cart insertion with the one that does work and nothing changes. It did occur to me to swap the soldered portion under the cart insertion but after thoroughly checking all the pins, everything is making an excellent connection. My opinion is one of the chips (possibly the memory banks as you suggested) is bad or possibly a capacitor. Just same, removing a chip is easy but reconnecting one without bridging the pins with solder is something else. The pins are far to close to one another for a standard soldring iron or my soldering skills.

But I will try to get a better access to the chip itself and the broken pin. Thanks for the idea.

Kunio · Mar 31, 2006

I haven't tried to use silicon instead of heat glue to hold a cable in place, but I don't see any problems in that. I think I have seen that solution when cables need to be held in place in warm areas, inside PSU's and places like that.

If you have switched the cart connector and you didn't see any difference, I guess that you have a dead chip somewhere.. This however is a little outside my sphere of knowledge so I won't be able to offer much help with that. I'll help you if I can, but I haven't seen that problem before so I am afraid my ability to help is limited. It may be a dead capacitor, but I doubt that the system would act like that in that case. There are a lot of capacitors under the heat sink near the multi-out port so check them out, but when they go the system usually doesn't boot as far as I know.. However, what I know in that field is limited so it's worth checking out.

The pins on the PPU chips are very small for a standard soldering iron, yes.. If all else fails, get another system. They are cheap nowadays anyway.

channelmaniac · Mar 31, 2006

Don't use silicone to hold anything in place like that unless you use something suitable for FISH TANKS.

Silicone emits acetic acid as it cures which tends to corrode things.

The fish tank version is supposed to be fume free.

RJ

Argentina94 · Mar 31, 2006

Ah, no silicone then. very well, hot glue it is.

I'm going to get a second console from a flea market this weekend. it's just to much trouble to repair.

There's no way I'll be able to swap those chips succesfully anyway.

Thanks for all the help fellas, you've been extremely helpful especially Kunio: Thanks for your patience.

Argentina94 · Apr 2, 2006

Just an update, I was able to swap my new revision SNES for a first model, the one with the plug-in sound adapter.

Finished the mod and everything works perfectly.

Thanks to all those who helped, especially Kunio.

Kunio · Apr 3, 2006

Argentina94 said:
Thanks to all those who helped, especially Kunio.

You're welcome! There are a few games that are able to detect systems with disabled region chips even though the region is correct (US cart on US system). The ones that I have had problems with in the past regarding this issue are:

Super Mario RPG (US/JAP) Black screen on boot. May work sometimes, but is very unreliable.

Dragonball Z Hyper Dimension. (JAP) Black screen on boot. May work sometimes, but is very unreliable. (PAL works fine)

Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PAL) Freezes right before the first match starts.

Kirby's Fun Pak (PAL/JAP) Black screen on boot. US probably fails too.

These are less than 10 games, all in all. You don't need to worry about it, but it's good to know so you don't scratch your head too much if you come across them. It doesn't harm your system. If you wish, you can hook a switch to pin#4 on the region chip in the system to be able to switch the chip back on in case you should need it someday, but the games that are able to detect this mod are so few it ain't worth the hassle. Do as you wish.. Have fun with your region free system!

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