GGX sprites vs. Last Blade sprites

H

hermegildo

Guest
Pictures speak a thousand words:

ky1-2.gif
kaede.gif


ky.gif
kaedex2.gif


And Ken from 3rd Strike thrown in for good measure:

ken.gif
ken2x.gif


Also, if you want to marvel at 3rd Strike sprites, please look no further than this.

Now can we please stop with this "GGX sprites are good" nonsense?

EDIT: Move this to General or something if you think that's where it belongs.
 

DevilRedeemed

teh
20 Year Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Posts
13,633
well GGX animation has always been.. mmmh.. functional. the truth of the matter is it's rubbish, made up for by gameplay (not my cup of tea personally) and pinache, which it undoubtedly has.
LB is beautifully animated. so fluid and delicate - I preffer it to SFIII by quite a bit. but that's down to taste.
 

OrochiEddie

Kobaïa Is De Hündïn
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Posts
19,316
hermegildo said:
Pictures speak a thousand words:

ky1-2.gif
kaede.gif


ky.gif
kaedex2.gif


And Ken from 3rd Strike thrown in for good measure:

ken.gif
ken2x.gif


Also, if you want to marvel at 3rd Strike sprites, please look no further than this.

Now can we please stop with this "GGX sprites are good" nonsense?

EDIT: Move this to General or something if you think that's where it belongs.

I honestly have no clue what you're getting at....
 

iamyagami22

Viewpoint Vigilante
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
2,244
I still like GGXX better. I never cared too much for last blade or last blade 2, good games but GGXX is just more fun for me. 3rd strike is also good, but honestly it gets kinda boring after a little while, Cvs2 is the same way. I think the only fighters I can play consistently without getting bored are GGXX and MOTW.

As for the animations, GGXX are good, but there are deffintly better animations in other games.
 
H

hermegildo

Guest
DevilRedeemed said:
I preffer it to SFIII by quite a bit.
So do I actually.

SFIII sprites are really amazing but they're a little too much at times. It seems like Capcom overanimated a bit (which I shouldn't really complain about), but I prefer LB sprites just a tad bit because they are "just right" in every aspect. They're also far more consistent. I also prefer them to MOTW sprites just because those are too small and you can't really appreciate them.

GGX sprites merely get the job done. It's a hectic game so you don't have a lot room for extra animation but when you look past the high-res, the sprites are really subpar. Even Marvel Super Heroes and Darkstalkers has better sprites and animation, even if the shading is rather flat.
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
28,936
I don't get it, either. All 3 sprites look pretty good to me.
 

OrochiEddie

Kobaïa Is De Hündïn
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Posts
19,316
hermegildo said:
So do I actually.

SFIII sprites are really amazing but they're a little too much at times. It seems like Capcom overanimated a bit (which I shouldn't really complain about), but I prefer LB sprites just a tad bit because they are "just right" in every aspect. They're also far more consistent. I also prefer them to MOTW sprites just because those are too small and you can't really appreciate them.

GGX sprites merely get the job done. It's a hectic game so you don't have a lot room for extra animation but when you look past the high-res, the sprites are really subpar. Even Marvel Super Heroes and Darkstalkers has better sprites and animation, even if the shading is rather flat.

sf3 has more frames of animation but as for sprite resolution GGXX takes the cake. I think actual "goodness" is opinion based. I'm a big fan of the SF3 sprites just because of how smooth everything looks, but you can't knock down GGXX the sprites are really bold and gorgeous even minus the frames.
 

iamyagami22

Viewpoint Vigilante
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
2,244
OrochiEddie said:
sf3 has more frames of animation but as for sprite resolution GGXX takes the cake. I think actual "goodness" is opinion based. I'm a big fan of the SF3 sprites just because of how smooth everything looks, but you can't knock down GGXX the sprites are really bold and gorgeous even minus the frames.

Truth, GGXX sprites actually seperate fingers on the hands of the characters, where-as the rest of them are blobs with lines drawn down them to make fake fingers.
 
H

hermegildo

Guest
iamyagami22 said:
Truth, GGXX sprites actually seperate fingers on the hands of the characters, where-as the rest of them are blobs with lines drawn down them to make fake fingers.
Not true.

I don't have many LB sprites at hand, but I don't think that Kaede in my first post has "blobs."

I'm writing a post detailing why GGX sprites suck.

Wait for it.

:emb:
 

iamyagami22

Viewpoint Vigilante
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
2,244
hermegildo said:
Not true.

I don't have many LB sprites at hand, but I don't think that Kaede in my first post has "blobs."

I'm writing a post detailing why GGX sprites suck.

Wait for it.

:emb:

Sorry I can't wait I gots to go, I'm going to see ultraviolet (yuck) with this bitch who's in one of my classes, one of two things will happen, I'll kill myself or I'll kill her and then myself, cause I know this movie is going to suck major cock.

BTW: GGXX rocks, don't be a hater. :emb:
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
The only GG character that isnt completely lame is Venom.

Fighting with a pool cue? Yeah pretty cool.

The rest of the characters are lamasaurus rex.
 

Spike Spiegel

Onigami Isle Castaway
20 Year Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2001
Posts
13,706
The sad part is, GGX's best and smoothest animations are in their idle standing pose. That and the smoke clouds left behind my pretty much everything done in the game. I LOVE the high res idea in a 2D fighter, but man the graphics blow beyond that. Nice game, however.
 
H

hermegildo

Guest
OrochiEddie said:
I honestly have no clue what you're getting at....
SouthtownKid said:
I don't get it, either. All 3 sprites look pretty good to me.
I was going to say "If you don't see it, then don't bother" or something like that, but I at least owe an explanation for starting this thread. It's not about pure "frames of animation" either, I already mentioned how GGX's gameplay doesn't have room for that, but that's no excuse for shitty sprites and animation.

I ask that you bear with me with this post as it'll probably be fairly long, but that's what happens when you have to compare something really good to something really bad.

Reposting sprites for easier reference, I obviously picked Ky and Kaede because they are probably the most similar out of both casts in both color schemes and appearance/stance.
ky.gif
kaedex2.gif


Easy, fairly non-technical stuff:

- Both of these characters' hair is a good place to start as any. If you don't see why Kaede's hair is a million times better, then just keep reading. You can also compare Kaede's elegant "skirt" movements to Ky's erratic, irregular and inconsistent ones.
- Ky's right coat flap changes shape and size for no real reason as does that blue cross thing over his chest, though slightly less so.
- His feet are not firmly planted on the ground. It's subtle with Ky, but it gives a sense of floatiness that is not visible with Kaede.
- Shadows are completely inconsistent. Look at Ky's right arm, how a shadow forms over from underneath his shoulder to his elbow for no real reason. Another example is his right shoulder, it has a fold that moves irregularly, also changing in thickness and shape. The easiest part to spot this though, is underneath what I guess is his belt. Folds appear, disappear, change shape, and direction a few times during that (I'm assuming) 8-10 frames animation. Kaede probably has the same number of frames BTW. There are tons of small places where things change size during that cycle and sure, you can say that it's because they're more detailed and, while that is true to a certain extent, it doesn't change the fact that the animation is subpar.
- General shading. Kaede has three tones of shading in his pants, shirt, skin and even hair. Ky has two, except for maybe a couple of spots (an his pants, directly underneath his "skirt" for example) and Kaede's shading is more complex, detailed and with a lot more depth than Ky's. It also has a lot more contrast, which is almost a matter of taste actually.

More in-depth stuff:

- Time out how long Ky goes from his closed arms position to his extended arms position and back. Do the same for when Kaede goes up to down and viceversa. Which one has more rhythm? If that doesn't make sense, let me put it in a more straightforward way: Ky's standing animation has two positions and every part of his body goes directly from one position to the next, without any sense of timing whatsoever. Look at his sword for example, I'm sure that if you trace out each frame, you'll get that each drawing is spaced close to or exactly the same as the previous one. Now notice how Kaede's hilt of the sword goes first, while the tip is delayed for a couple of frames before it follows. That right there is great animation. Another example of good animation is their unarmed hands. Ky's left arm goes in a straight arc back in forth with no real timing in between, while Kaede's has a slightly circular motion that moves almost independant of the rest of the body.

Yeah, you may like GGX more than any other game and you're free to do so, but don't be blinded by pretty-pretty high resolution. These sprites are no good and are probably worse than some of the older Capcom and SNK sprites.

Sprite police?

Fuck yeah!

:buttrock:
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
Oh snap! herm just threw in some overlapping action and arcs!





(and he is 100% right, the GG sprite is horribley animated and has super bad timing)
 
H

hermegildo

Guest
Nesagwa said:
Oh snap! herm just threw in some overlapping action and arcs!





(and he is 100% right, the GG sprite is horribley animated and has super bad timing)
I thought you were going to shit on me for writing such a long post.

I'm happy in my pants.

:emb:
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
hermegildo said:
I thought you were going to shit on me for writing such a long post.

I'm happy in my pants.

:emb:

Nah, I read it all.

People will probably argue with you more, but youre completely right.
 
H

hermegildo

Guest
Nesagwa said:
Nah, I read it all.

People will probably argue with you more, but youre completely right.
The worst part is that if you look at the reduced Ky sprite, most of those problems (except for the shitty timing) would pretty much disappear.

Maybe high-res is not as good as people think it is?

I personally think that SFIII sprites have the optimal resolution for fighting games.

Not too small, but they still have that sprite "feel" to them that is lost with GGX.
 

Tacitus

Volatile Memory Construct - SN://0467839
Staff member
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Posts
15,120
How about this?

I don't like the styles of either. They both have their charms, but I find them both irritating for their own unique reasons.

SF3 looks great, but the colors tend to be flat.

KOF still looks like shit.

SF4 will fix all of that, though. ;)


Toodles.
 
H

hermegildo

Guest
VanillaThunder said:
How about this?

I don't like the styles of either. They both have their charms, but I find them both irritating for their own unique reasons.

SF3 looks great, but the colors tend to be flat.

KOF still looks like shit.

SF4 will fix all of that, though. ;)


Toodles.
Fair enough, but GGX sprites are technically inferior over LB sprites.

You may like either of them more, but personal preference doesn't change that fact.



Babycakes.

:tickled:
 

shirt

Andy's Clothes Designer
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Posts
3,333
Blazing Star FMVs > Xbox 360

Last Blade looks better considering the hardware, so much love went into that game it still blows me away.

I agree that the GG sprite animation is basically unacceptable.

Fist of the North Star looks to be a marked improvement however.
 
Last edited:

Diavle18

Banger regnaB,
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Posts
1,534
KOF does not animate like shit, ppl should really learn to look past fps and pay attention to the animation. Look at how the characters move based on their personalities. Check out K49's sly and Shen's cocky walk cycles, and its not only about the walks check out Leona, Ramon, Vanessa and many more in terms of how they move, jump and attack. Their actions reinforce their personalities and design (how Leona just doesn't sit down but kinda shakes her head right after).

Imo SF3 has overanimated bland animation.

GGX has some crazy designs but on the animation part it just has a few nice key frames and thats about it.

As for LB, thats in a league of its own cuz the characters, backgrounds and music fit each other so perfectly that its scary.
 

Jedah Doma

Chroma Ma' Doma!,
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Posts
9,902
Well for my two cents, they are great for different reasons. Of course there is the fact of animation with the LB sprites and while your point about shadows, coloring, and other minor gripes is well put, in a way it's not really relevant in a action fighting game.

For example, is fighting with giant oversized swords while jumping 30 feet in the air and shooting out magical blue attacks realistic? No, not really, but it sure makes for one hell of a game. It's more of a stylization which doesn't require the same exact precision that say a regular drawing would.

17c.jpg

torso.jpg


Alright, we've got two drawings here of a male form. One is more realistic in the sense that it is an actual drawing of the human figure with attention to correct form, posture, and symetry, but look at the top drawing. This drawing is done by Yoji Shinkawa (artist of the Metal Gear series). It is not as precise nor is it a comeplete form. Many of the forms seen that make up this figure are created by the implied lines your eye draws to complete the figure. Both are great drawings in thier own way, but even though each drawing has its' own merit, different people would like different drawings for all together different reasons.

Now if I asked you which one is more interesting and pleasing to the eye, most, if not all, would say the top drawing. The style and flowing lines make up, if not negate, for the fact that there are no legs to attach this body to or perfectly preportioned body parts. So, while your point about art style and animation is valid, in some ways it doesn't really apply to a video game. This is about making the game look good and pleasing to the eye, not just about perfection or certain rules.
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
Jedah is missing the point.

Its not about style, its about animation, something completely different.
 
Top