New rules for the Market Forums - 03/05/2003 - Read BEFORE posting!

Its time to update the rules of the market forums. While some may not agree with these changes, they need to be made.

First Neo Geo specific rules.

1. The sale of ANY bootleg cart will not be tolerated. A bootleg cart is any cart that does not contain legitimate SNK ROM chips. Some MVS carts that appear on the market are commonly bootlegs, for example: Pop 'N Bounce, Neo Mr Do, Neo Bomberman, MS4, RotD, MotW, KOF99, Super Dodgeball. An example of a bootleg home cart is the NGF Zupapa home cart (Proven BOOTLEG from <a href="http://www.neo-geo.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=005377" target="_blank">http://www.neo-geo.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=005377</a> ). MVS carts are easy to verify if they are bootlegs. Typically, all one needs to do is open the case (unscrew the 4 screws) and check to see if the chips used on the boards are not EPROMS. The NGH number of the game (which can be found on the Master List hosted here) should be printed on each chip. Some games may have a couple EPROMs on them from repairs, sales of such games is fine. But if the cart is all EPROMs, it is a bootleg, and should not be listed.

2. The sale or want ad for ANY cartridge converted from it's original form will not be tolerated. We have been requested to no longer allow the exchange in games which were converted from one format to the other (typically an MVS cart being converted to a home cart. How do you know if you are in ownership of a converted cart? For home carts, just check the Master List, and if your game is listed as an MVS only release, and you have a home cart, it is a conversion, and can not be listed here. For example, the Strikers 1945 release from !Arcade! can no longer be sold here. If you are unsure of a title, like Metal Slug, check the Cart Pics hosted here and compare. Your manual cover, sticker, and insert should match those pictured. Any home cart being sold without a cart sticker should not be listed, since such an item is suspect.

3. Fan made (Unauthorized, unoriginal SNK/Playmore) artwork should not be offered for sale with any items listed in the market area. Such items include fan made inserts for home carts or shock boxes, carts stickers, and manuals. So, please, do not openly advertise them with your sale.

Now, Rules governing all 3 forums.

1. As before, no 'backups' or CDRs should be sold on the forums. This includes any such device that will circumvent protection on games or DVDs (etc). If you want to sell it, do not list it here.

2. Sales posts should not be bumped for 24 hours. Discussion in a post is fine, but if you bump a post under this window, the moderators will take the appropriate action, which is not limited to locking or post deletion and a warning, all the way to banning. This includes other users bumping the post.

3. As a courtesy to others, the location field of your profile should CORRECTLY identify where you are. If you are in the US or Canada, you should provide City, State/Province. If you are outside of the US, you should provide City, Country. This is only required of those posting ads in the 3 forums. This rule will go into effect from 2 weeks after the post of the updated rules (March 20, 2003). If you deal with a person where the address does not match what they list, please report this infraction to a moderator.

4. As a courtesy to other members, no member should have more than *1* active sale/wanted thread per forum. If you have an active thread in each forum (for 3 total) that is fine. Also, threads posted that are for Auctions should be appropriately identified, same as items being for sale directly. Do not deceive members by using a vague subject line to get attention, these threads will be deleted.

5. These forums are for buying/selling/trading only, not discussion. If you have a good transaction with someone and wish to post about it, post ONLY in the original thread of the transaction, DO NOT create a new post, or bring back an archived post on the issue. These posts will be immediately deleted. The same is true about a bad transaction, post only in the thread involved. If you wish to have a discussion about a transaction gone wrong, post in the General Discussion forum, if it is Neo related, and unrelated topics, if it is not Neo related.

6. We will take measures towards banning individuals for bad transactions that occur on these forums. The MAIN requirement is that the transaction MUST take place here. If it takes place on Ebay, you must settle your problems through Ebay's complaint process. These issues will be taken up on a per issue basis, so we will not set in stone the standard for such action. Remember, we are not responsible for ANY transaction that takes place, so, as always, buyer beware.

7. As a courtesy to other members, do not disrupt any threads in the market area. If you had a bad transaction with an individual, you are allowed to post your experience in their sales thread, but make sure to point out the original thread here where the transaction took place. If you post in a thread because of a personal dislike of an individual, your post will be deleted, and you may be banned for a period time, or indefinitely.

8. Only list items in your own possession. Do not list items as 'pre orders' or for friends. If you have a 'friend' or 'relative' that wants to sell something, they can do their own work. If a member is banned, and they wish to sell something, do not list items for them, or your account will be banned. This will be a banning offense, PERIOD.

What items can be listed in the different forums:

(SNK) Neo Wanted - Any SNK released game for Arcade, Neo Geo, Neo Geo 64, Neo Geo Pocket, and the various ports to other Systems SNK released, such as Twinkle Star Sprites for the DC, any SNK released hardware, or third party product that works with the systems, and any SNK collectible such as keychains, art books, etc. Such want ads or trade lists should NOT be associated with items listed for sale in another forum.

(SNK) Neo Selling - Any SNK released game for Arcade, Neo Geo, Neo Geo 64, Neo Geo Pocket, and the various ports to other Systems SNK released, such as Twinkle Star Sprites for the DC, any SNK released hardware, or third party product that works with the systems, and any SNK collectible such as keychains, art books, etc. Only items offered for sale (or auction) should be listed here. Note, if it is an auction you are advertising, you are PROHIBITED from making a deal for the item with a board member here, and closing the auction early.

Everything Else - Buy/sell/trade of none Neo items, basically anything else from games for other systems, to DVDs, cards, etc.

That's it for the rules. If you have any questions, or need clarifications, fire away in the Neo Selling Forum thread.

* Modified 03/17/2003 to change the period for a bump to 24 hours, and to highlight the fact that his rule applies to ANY user bumping a post.

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Mouse_Master ]</small>

I dunno about not letting people sell the shock stuff. I can see the n-g.com perspective, but I think that it's really a shame that we can't buy/sell those. spock

Additionally, I'd like to add that although I do not own any shock boxes or inserts, but I think they are really a welcome addition to the hobby.

And the home conversions of MVS carts??? That's never been a problem. Is this a Playmore mandate???

Wolf:
I dunno about not letting people sell the shock stuff. I can see the n-g.com perspective, but I think that it's really a shame that we can't buy/sell those. spock

Additionally, I'd like to add that although I do not own any shock boxes or inserts, but I think they are really a welcome addition to the hobby.

Click to expand...

Selling Shock boxes is fine, just no artwork can be advertised with them in the listing. Does that suck? Yes. Do we have a choice? Unfortunately, not really. There should be a post from Shawn in the coming few days the lends a little more light on that issue.

Bar81:
And the home conversions of MVS carts??? That's never been a problem. Is this a Playmore mandate???

Click to expand...

Basically, the owner of the copyright (Playmore) has made a legal statement more or less saying that such items were licensed for Arcade use, and not consumer use, hence that is why the sale of conversions is being banned.

This is not the thread to go into detail on this, best to have a debate on it in the general discussion forum if needed.

I need something clarified.

If I do manufactured runs of NGPC screens (W/out LOGOS...etc.. or any copy right infringing items) is that allowed? or if I get 3rd party AC adaptors...etc?

I am in the process of a project right now... I will need to contact privately about this... but, I want to make sure this will not be infringing. Check your pm.


Thanks,
†B†V†

Bluevoodu:
I need something clarified.

If I do manufactured runs of NGPC screens (W/out LOGOS...etc.. or any copy right infringing items) is that allowed? or if I get 3rd party AC adaptors...etc?

I am in the process of a project right now... I will need to contact privately about this... but, I want to make sure this will not be infringing. Check your pm.


Thanks,
†B†V†

Click to expand...

While I can not offer legal advice, in my humble opinion, I would classify such items as Third Party items, same category as a Shock Box.

You could do the same thing with the right type of PCMCIA card to sell to Neo fans as replacements for memory cards, for ecxample.

Does that help?

Mouse_Master:

Bar81:
And the home conversions of MVS carts??? That's never been a problem. Is this a Playmore mandate???

Click to expand...

Basically, the owner of the copyright (Playmore) has made a legal statement more or less saying that such items were licensed for Arcade use, and not consumer use, hence that is why the sale of conversions is being banned.

This is not the thread to go into detail on this, best to have a debate on it in the general discussion forum if needed.

Click to expand...

Thanks. What I figured. No need to debate it really. It's Playmore's copyright and they can do as they please no matter our feelings. A shame though.

I'm just going to take a go ahead and say that I am personally against the new rules, but there was no vote on the matter. Playmore said do it, and that is that... frown

I also need something clarified. Are we required to list our town and state in our profile? For example, if someone sells an item and they don't have their actual state or town in their location field, will they be banned?

Mouse_Master:
[...]
Note, if it is an auction you are advertising, you are PROHIBITED from making a deal for the item with a board member here, and closing the auction early.

Click to expand...

So, if you advertise an auction here, and decide to end the auction for ANY reason other then to sell to a board memeber here, it's okay? I don't see how this could actually be enforced, becuase it could just be said that you ended it early for various other reasons. If the situation did arise though, what would the consequences be?

Granted, it's a shitty thing to do to end an auction early and sell privately, but I don't see how members can be told they can't end and an auction early.

And just a note, I rarely sell things on eBay. So I would likely never do this. Just looking for clarification on the matter.

thank you mouse master!!! i'm sick of all of these excellent seller threads, and finally the mods do something about it. rule no.5=golden rule.

Mouse_Master:

Bluevoodu:
I need something clarified.

If I do manufactured runs of NGPC screens (W/out LOGOS...etc.. or any copy right infringing items) is that allowed? or if I get 3rd party AC adaptors...etc?

I am in the process of a project right now... I will need to contact privately about this... but, I want to make sure this will not be infringing. Check your pm.


Thanks,
†B†V†

Click to expand...

While I can not offer legal advice, in my humble opinion, I would classify such items as Third Party items, same category as a Shock Box.

You could do the same thing with the right type of PCMCIA card to sell to Neo fans as replacements for memory cards, for ecxample.

Does that help?

Click to expand...

sure

um.. that does mean its ok, right?


Thanks!
†B†V†

Sounds to me as though Playmore are pushing some what.......

.......A Big play back into the NeoGeo/SNK Market is my thought! wink

Lot of great ideas. I guess Shawn didnt go for the idea of having me a mod here though huh?

Kind of figured that would happen.

No good deed unpunished I guess.

The new rules are fair enough. Although not being able to sell conversions and shock box art/copied inserts does suck but i do understand where playmore is coming from. They are just trying to protect thier interests.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Lagduf ]</small>

Adding your town's name to your profile sounds like a way for Playmore track down bootleggers (correct me if I'm wrong). This is your house so I will conform to your rules without hesitation, but why are we limited to a single sales thread in say, Neo Selling, within a certain amount of time?

Earthquake:
I also need something clarified. Are we required to list our town and state in our profile? For example, if someone sells an item and they don't have their actual state or town in their location field, will they be banned?

Click to expand...

If you make a listing for selling purposes your profile should display your actual city and state (if in USA), city and country (if outside USA). If you do not, your listing will be subject to deletion without warning beginning March 20, 2003.

I'm a bit concerned with this rule:
"If you are in the US or Canada, you should provide City, State/Province."
I personally don't always like to volunteer information such as that, which isn't necessary. If someone PM's and is interested in buying an item, I would tell them the required information at that time, but would prefer not to announce it to the whole world in my post. You never know what kind of people you are talking to, they could pick up a name here, an address there, and before you know it you have a sick pervert knocking on your door. a bit exaggerated...maybe....but in todays world you never know.

Are we still allowed to buy/sell/trade for reprinted marquees or mini marquees? (especially the latter)

Alkanan:
Are we still allowed to buy/sell/trade for reprinted marquees or mini marquees? (especially the latter)

Click to expand...

Re-printed mini marques do not classify as official SNK / Playmore merchandise, so I would imagine that the answer is a resounding 'no'.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: NeoLord ]</small>

Shawn:

Earthquake:
I also need something clarified. Are we required to list our town and state in our profile? For example, if someone sells an item and they don't have their actual state or town in their location field, will they be banned?

Click to expand...

If you make a listing for selling purposes your profile should display your actual city and state (if in USA), city and country (if outside USA). If you do not, your listing will be subject to deletion without warning beginning March 20, 2003.

Click to expand...

this will be tough for me. I'm all over the place.

I think these rules overall are best, especially for tracking down scammers. But who is to say that what people put in their location is really where they're from? Do you intend to do an ip trace on every person selling in the forum? It seems like a good idea, and will no doubt make it a little safer in these forums, but doesn't seem likely to work.

Time to change my loc..

1. As before, no 'backups' or CDRs should be sold on the forums. This includes any such device that will circumvent protection on games or DVDs (etc). If you want to sell it, do not list it here.

Click to expand...

I understand the backups and i am fine with this. However, devices that circumvent protection are a whole new kettle of fish....

For instance, a device that allows me (living in the UK) to play US or Jap Games is not allowed, correct? Remember that this is a protection device between regions.....

Does this therefore also include a device that allows me to use an MVS title on a Normal TV? Afterall, MVS titles were specifically made for Public Video Consoles, so surely the sale of devices that allow even the possible use of an MVS title by individuals in the home should also be banned? spock

I am probably just talking bollocks.... it is 6 in the morning here and i have been up for 23 hours, but i do think that it is a valid point.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: 2D ]</small>

what about installing Debug bioses?

Seriously. US systems were not intended to play Samurai Spirits 1 in japanese.

H O G W A S H.

I know it's not in your hands, Mouse. I just hate this new rule shit. I feel like if England had re-colonized the US, and are imposing their taxation without representation. But intstead it's Playmore...