Tips & Tricks tier list for '02 & '03

The new March 2005 issue of Tips & Tricks has an article by Jason Wilson a.k.a. Dream Theater. Nothing in it ya didn't already know except the tier lists

The King of Fighters 2002

Top Tier: Goenitz, Geese, Riot Iori, Omega Rugal, Billya Kane, Robert, Yamazaki, Kula, Takuma, Vanessa, K9999, Leona

Second Tier: Clark, Ramon, Iori, Joe, May Lee, Kensou, Choi, Kim, Mature, Shermie, Yashiro, Ralf, Mai, Shingo, King

Middle Tier: Kyo, Kusanagi, Ryo, K', Chris, Yuri, Chang, Andy, Daimon, Vice, Blue Mary, Terry

Fourth Tier: Maxima, Whip, Angel, Athena, Benimaru

Bottom Tier: Chin, Seth

The King of Fighters 2003

Top Tier: Mukai, Adelheid, Duolon, Maki, Chizuru, Tizoc, Iori, Jhun Hoon, Ash, King

Second Tier: K', Benimaru, Kusanagi, Joe, Shen, Yamazaki

Middle Tier: Terry, Ryo, Kim, Yuri, Billy Kane, Ralf, Clark, Shingo, Mai

Fourth Tier: Leona, Chang, Athena, Kyo, Maxima, Malin

Bottom Tier: Whip, Daimon, Hinako, Gato

*Where's Robert?

G-Product said:

The King of Fighters 2003

Top Tier: Mukai, Adelheid, Duolon, Maki, Chizuru, Tizoc, Iori, Jhun Hoon, Ash, King

Second Tier: K', Benimaru, Kusanagi, Joe, Shen, Yamazaki

Middle Tier: Terry, Ryo, Kim, Yuri, Billy Kane, Ralf, Clark, Shingo, Mai

Fourth Tier: Leona, Chang, Athena, Kyo, Maxima, Malin

Bottom Tier: Whip, Daimon, Hinako, Gato

*Where's Robert?

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dude, I don't know. I'm not that experienced with the game, but don't you think this list is rediculas!? especially with the bolded characters. I also don't see Juhn.

k'_127 said:

dude, I don't know. I'm not that experienced with the game, but don't you think this list is rediculas!? especially with the bolded characters. I also don't see Juhn.

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You're right that list is pretty shit. Daimon bottom? Yeah right....
2k3 top 5 - Duo, Daimon, Ash, K', Malin
That's pretty much the decided law in 2k3 and they only have 2 of them in the right place.
Pretty much besides for a few characters the entire list is a jumbled mess.

You have Terry bolded which means you think he goes somewhere else yeah? Do you think he's higher? I'm pretty much of the opinion that he's solid middle.

I don't know 2k2 that well but I'm sure it isn't much better. Just look how low athena is ranked...

How is jhun top tier? Duo I can see it. Tips and tricks is the worst mag in gaming. They just repost those same damn codes every month. How can a mag be credible for a tier list when they barely cover anything as it is?


Top Tier: Goenitz, Geese, Riot Iori, Omega Rugal, Billya Kane, Robert, Yamazaki, Kula, Takuma, Vanessa, K9999, Leona

Goenitz and Geese don't qualify, same with rugal. They arent regular chars.
Robert is in no way a tier, hes not even mid tier, hes crap once you get used to his genei kyaku mixes and air whorage.

The fuckin tops in 2002 are without a damn doubt.

Chang, CHOI, MAI, ATHENA, Billy, Yuri, Leona, Clark, Vanessa, Angel, May Lee, Kula (K9999 - Very reasonable maybe.) I wouldn't even include daimon up here. Shermie is a monster in the right hands, her sCD is the best shit ever in 2002.

I use yamazaki and hes a expert only character, hes not a top tier character because of his pissload of weaknesses. Unless you are fluent with maxs and have good keep away timing, hes a pile of piss. He struggles against chars with tons of options. A char like chang is great for yama. Chang is a fucking force in 2002, probably the most underestimated char.

ME:

I learned my chang from playing this mexican high level chang whore, hes fucking insane with chang, and after a while you get a nice feel for changs over all game. His game revolves around that ddB/D and short hop jC and jCD, a hop jB sB cmd is good, set ups include. Guarded jCD, cD bf A (bait), you can also swap bf A with dd B. I reccomend using the former more. Mash that rapid A as much as possible and cancel it like crazy. Refuse the cancel if it hits once off a counter, let it hit twice. A trick is to do that rapid A and move back, it baits in whores like kyo who think you will cancel. Keep it out there.
If you are in sweep distance against whores like athena, cancel via ABCD and guard low.
You may question how you would have time to do this? The trick is a smarter player, a smart dude will not risk a close cD on chang at any cost, that rapid A can plunged them into a mess of situations and annoyance so they usually wait it out. Use this as a advantage.

CHOI, MAI, ATHENA = Scariest three chars at high level. I'd even rate Mai above choi. Mai has the best keep away air game in the entire series. Her arsenal of air mix's and safety's are just the biggest annoyance. Chars like Mai and Athena made me take up choi, even then its not a guarantee. A good Mai player can crush almost anything with well timed cross ups and air returns.

Nobody would agree with this unless you've seen it. I played a very high level dude that won a grip of tourneys and I'd be able to beat some of his chars, he had one issue though.
He had back up characters like Choi and Mai. His Mai would escape all over the place, he knew my game before I knew my game. I was in disbelief at how much of a pain Mai can be. I dont have a issue with her with my clark. She does her hcb A air shit, I guard and do my hcfB. I would loose against his choi and mai the most because he knew exactly what to be doing.

HOWEVER, Mai has a bounce deal going on as far as guarding her air shit goes. Her "ass moves" for example. Instead of me guarding and Mai falling into a danger zone, her ass falls back to safety. Some chars are just worthless against her. Her fucking cross ups are frontal sometimes also. Its like if you do Kyo's short hop jD against some chars in kof 2003.

The worst thing about her and what makes her game unique is her ability to confuse your guards. No other character gives me that trouble except her and sometimes Athena.

firebomber said:

You're right that list is pretty shit. Daimon bottom? Yeah right....
2k3 top 5 - Duo, Daimon, Ash, K', Malin
That's pretty much the decided law in 2k3 and they only have 2 of them in the right place.
Pretty much besides for a few characters the entire list is a jumbled mess.

You have Terry bolded which means you think he goes somewhere else yeah? Do you think he's higher? I'm pretty much of the opinion that he's solid middle.

I don't know 2k2 that well but I'm sure it isn't much better. Just look how low athena is ranked...

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Terry should be ranked higher imo. if that 3-hit super move had a bit higher damage, I would place him right next to Iori. he plays very different from previous year, but if he's used effectively, he can be even better.

Lord Wolfgang Krauser said:

How is jhun top tier?

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come watch that dude who uses him here in our arcade. God, his normal kicks have unlimited prorities.

k'_127 said:

come watch that dude who uses him here in our arcade. God, his normal kicks have unlimited prorities.

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I dont know man, I dont play much 2003, I couldnt give a legit response to this. I do remember his ass having very annoying tap pressure in 2003. Maybe the dude is just good with him. Its like those bad ass kyo players, its not like hes a top though. I got pretty decent with billy, and if theres anything his ass has to be tops in this, that dfA has smothering priority and you can just keep poking worse then 2002 because it moves slow and covers a shitload of area. I'd include benimaru up there to, his safety alone is retarded.

I've never seen a truly good 2k3 Terry player but I admit he has potential. His chains are strong and he can do decent damage. I think his biggest problem is he has no real mixup that I can see. Just seems to one sided to hang with the top tier IMO. But honestly I could be wrong since I don't have much experience against him.

Jhun is definately high up in the tiers. He's right under the top 5 IMO.
Like K'_127 said he has tons of priority on a lot of moves. Very useful autoguard on a couple of his specials as well. He has a very, very solid offensive wake up game with his high/low kicks from the stances. Easy to combo super with the qcfX2+K. Also he is safe with little recovery after most anything. If the opponent blocks you can poke chain until your safe.
He just has a lot of useful, powerful stuff going for him. LDM is good too.

Billy is okay in 2k3. High middle I guess. He lacks a good defense and good combos. That and his f+A is slow and not that great anymore. He's really not a bad character in 03, there are just a lot of characters that are more effective.

Beni is definately up near top. Really the only reason he can be beat is because his defense is shit. He's all offense. A good shen or gato can destroy him.

Jason Wilson is a very, very good player. Anybody can give you problems if they're good with their characters, that's just the facts of life. I'm sure he's being objective about the rankings, and not going by a limited amount of competition for reference.

firebomber said:

I've never seen a truly good 2k3 Terry player but I admit he has potential. His chains are strong and he can do decent damage. I think his biggest problem is he has no real mixup that I can see. Just seems to one sided to hang with the top tier IMO. But honestly I could be wrong since I don't have much experience against him.

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I think Terry's strength is the ability to do huge damage off of one crouching lk, he does have few mix up options. Most his moves have been slowed down too much. You can c.lk,df hk to lk crack shoot for confusion and if they flinch start over but tag buster wolf at the end. His j lk is also a great cross up.

Other than that he is pretty one sided.

SonGohan said:

Jason Wilson is a very, very good player. Anybody can give you problems if they're good with their characters, that's just the facts of life. I'm sure he's being objective about the rankings, and not going by a limited amount of competition for reference.

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That may be so and I'm not doubting his skill, but when I see Daimon, the #2 character in 03, ranked in the worst tier I can't help but question his knowledge of the game.

Most of the placements I can understand because if you haven't played the game for a long time you wouldn't know better (ie: placing Gato bottom when he should really be in the second) but Daimon isn't like that. He's obviously one of the best even if you only play with him for 30 min or so. I'd really like to know why he ranked him so low.

firebomber said:

I'd really like to know why he ranked him so low.

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Ask him yourself in the fighting games discussion over at SRK.

I'm really confused on Jhun being ranked so low, as well as Athena. Jhun has a solid pressure game and Athena with her unblockable fireball set up. Hinako low tier is a joke. She has a really good guard crush game. Only thing that makes her game suck, is her jumping/short jumping game from afar.

firebomber said:

I've never seen a truly good 2k3 Terry player but I admit he has potential.

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that's exactly how I feel toward him. I'm the only one who uses him where I go to play, but I believe if one of those skilled players learned how to use him, the results would be amazing.






btw, here is a tip that I use when I play against that Juhn player:

try to roll past his attacks . if done right, he would be wide open for your attacks while giving you his back.

here is how to do it: just keep a safe distance between both of you. if you stay still, the Juhn player will try throw some up-down attacks. you can roll past these and try your chances.

becareful though. his auto-guard attack still works for him even if he's giving you his back. plus, choose the wrong time to roll and be prepared for punishment

cam347 said:

I think Terry's strength is the ability to do huge damage off of one crouching lk, he does have few mix up options. Most his moves have been slowed down too much. You can c.lk,df hk to lk crack shoot for confusion and if they flinch start over but tag buster wolf at the end. His j lk is also a great cross up.

Other than that he is pretty one sided.

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yeah true. Good mix-up game, great combos, not too over-powerful but not too weak. ThePower Dunk cancel is great and the double HP he has now, you can actually verify it. But his Crack Shoot got nerfed, comes out way too slow that I'm suprised it combos.

Blue Mary's Spin Drop is the same though, coems out too slow, at least it has a command after it though.

While I don't think Mukai is that great. He has an ifinite and a range game like Goenitz, does do good damage but he's so slow. I dunno maybe I'm misjudging him.

While I'm a lil pissed they got rid of Whip's move in 03 where she flys up and lands u goin "AAAAAYYYYEEE!"

While I think I might agree with Leona in 4th tier in 03. She's been tweaked down a lil', her supers are slow & a lil' unsafe. Good pokes though non-the-less.

While Mature 2nd tier, BULLSHIT! She's nothing like she was in'98, no speed, priority, they got rid of her standing close D, f + B combo and her qcb + P is a lil' bit more harder to pull off I think.

And I thought Angel woulda been ranked higher with her b/s infinites...

Kim Kaphwan said:

I'm really confused on Jhun being ranked so low, as well as Athena. Jhun has a solid pressure game and Athena with her unblockable fireball set up. Hinako low tier is a joke. She has a really good guard crush game. Only thing that makes her game suck, is her jumping/short jumping game from afar.

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Athena doesn't have any unblockables in 02 or 03 as far as I know, what setup are you talking about?

Yes Hinako is high. She has a great rushdown and is hard to stop. Excellent damage off her mixups and useful autoguard to boot. And, like you said, she has a great guard crush game and she dizzys people fast because of all her multihit moves. She has a weak defense but a good player can manage pretty well with her autoguard and invincibility frames.

firebomber said:

Athena doesn't have any unblockables in 02 or 03 as far as I know, what setup are you talking about?

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When opponent is knockdown, Psycho ball into teleport. She also is really good with her zoning game, especially with crouch C.

I cannot get this to work in 02 or 03. Have you verified it?

firebomber said:

I cannot get this to work in 02 or 03. Have you verified it?

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throw a psycho ball and then teleport just as it's about to hit the opponent. i remember it being in 98 but im not 100% sure if its in 2k2...

I know the bug existed in 98. I don't play 02 much but I assume that I would have seen the bug by now considering how many match vids athena is in.

There was a rumor of the bug in 03 but I never heard it verified and I have never been able to do it myself.
Even if it does work in 03 I'm convinced that it's not easy enough to be useful.

firebomber said:

I know the bug existed in 98. I don't play 02 much but I assume that I would have seen the bug by now considering how many match vids athena is in.

There was a rumor of the bug in 03 but I never heard it verified and I have never been able to do it myself.
Even if it does work in 03 I'm convinced that it's not easy enough to be useful.

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will '03 is full of bugs, like standing i nthe air, Jhun is most well known for it but I seen Joe do it too

Daimon walking back with Terry behind him walking back as well WTF

Or where Athena does her super shining crystal bit off screen

Athena bug is gone in the 2002 and 2003, anyways she s top tier without doubt in the 2002 !

And why put all boss in this tier list ? that s mean nothing, no one play with a omega rugal in a tournament !

Wow, I didn't know Jason was a member here. Turns out he also goes under the username NESflorida here too.

I saw his article in T&T, I was nearly tempted to buy it.

Only thing I was tempted to buy from tips n tricks was Wilson's MKD write up. You can't go wrong with him on MK when he is the MK2 World Champion.

G-Product said:

While Mature 2nd tier, BULLSHIT! She's nothing like she was in'98, no speed, priority, they got rid of her standing close D, f + B combo and her qcb + P is a lil' bit more harder to pull off I think.

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'02 Mature >>>>>>>>>>>>> '98 Mature

I wouldn't know about placing her near the top, but unlike what most claim, she certainly isn't bottom tier.

She's quite fast in '02, and Death Claws (QCB+A/C x3) isn't hard to do. The angle for Despair (QCF+A/C) is better, and the fact that Sacrilege (DP+A/C) is a knockdown now makes it that much more useful. As for priority, her close standing B is good for that, and counts as a low to boot.