PCE Super SD System 3 - Terraonion New Product (Dec 2017)

thirdkind

Chin's Bartender
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Posts
1,573
Don't Think, Just do. You Nerds over think everything. Jail Bars, big deal, lower the brightness on your monitor and they are hardly noticeable. I've played with Jail Bars for years and you really only notice them when you see the blacks. This device is saving you have to rgb mod your console. You want to go ahead and RGB mod your console and Jail Bar fix your shit than go ahead. I played in shitty rf and composite cables for over a decade, subjecting my eyes to that blurry mess on the screen. I would have killed for some RGB with slight Jail Bars growing up. That shit would have changed my life. You need to fuck off. I like most Aussies but you are on my shit list.

i've had a few drinks so I am a little edgy.

Nobody cares what you found acceptable as a kid.

This is a premium product with a premium price, so it's not out of bounds to expect premium performance. Thankfully, we have smart (and probably nerdy) folks like neosd and neodev capable of THINKING and not just DOING, which is why we have this awesome piece of kit in the first place. If they can set proper expectations by addressing a reasonable question about a common occurrence with RGB output on older consoles, let them.

Would you rather nobody asked and it turned into an issue after it ships? You want angry nerds converging on the forum screeching about jail bars because nobody mentioned it beforehand?
 

RAZO

Mayor of Southtown
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,783
Nobody cares what you found acceptable as a kid.

This is a premium product with a premium price, so it's not out of bounds to expect premium performance. Thankfully, we have smart (and probably nerdy) folks like neosd and neodev capable of THINKING and not just DOING, which is why we have this awesome piece of kit in the first place. If they can set proper expectations by addressing a reasonable question about a common occurrence with RGB output on older consoles, let them.

Would you rather nobody asked and it turned into an issue after it ships? You want angry nerds converging on the forum screeching about jail bars because nobody mentioned it beforehand?

Premium Price? You think $250 Euros for a Device that could run every PCE CD Game and offer RGB is Premium Price. That shit is a bargain. You stayed away from these forums for years and decide to pop up with your Nerdism. Go Fuck yourself you spoiled fuck. Go take your fucking complaints to AtariAge. Faggit.

Guy Pops up when all these devices like the NeoSd and Super Sd System are released. MIA from 2015 to 2017.
 
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thirdkind

Chin's Bartender
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Posts
1,573
Premium Price? You think $250 Euros for a Device that could run every PCE CD Game and offer RGB is Premium Price. That shit is a bargain. You stayed away from these forums for years and decide to pop up with your Nerdism. Go Fuck yourself you spoiled fuck. Go take your fucking complaints to AtariAge. Faggit.

I don't remember you from when I was a regular and your opinion means fuckall.

P.S. - "$250 Euros" makes no sense and you misspelled "faggot". Could be the booze, but I'm guessing it's just because you're a moron.
 

Fritz

Annex Florida Coalition, Goodwill Ambassador,
15 Year Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Posts
3,428
Both of you fagits are wrong. the correct ng.com spelling of the word is fagit.
 

RAZO

Mayor of Southtown
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,783
I don't remember you from when I was a regular and your opinion means fuckall.

P.S. - "$250 Euros" makes no sense and you misspelled "faggot". Could be the booze, but I'm guessing it's just because you're a moron.

We Spell it Differently here @ NG.com. You would have known this if you were part of the community and not just pop in like a regular when your interested in something this forum has to offer. The Year you came in means shit to me. I have way more respect for younger members here who never stopped contributing than some Fagit (Sorry Gumz, I add the extra G brother) like you who pops in when a someone releases a popular device on this forum. Be Gone Dude. No one noticed you were gone and we will go on when you decide to disappear again for two years. You are nothing here and not considered NG family. Again, Fuck off.
 
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thirdkind

Chin's Bartender
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Posts
1,573
Guy Pops up when all these devices like the NeoSd and Super Sd System are released. MIA from 2015 to 2017.

Nice edit. I came back before neosd announced the Super SD because I decided to get back into the hobby. Lucky timing for me, that's all. Maybe I had other things going on in my life during the last 2 years that took priority over gaming.

Are you drunk and alone by choice or is that just how life turned out for you?
 

RAZO

Mayor of Southtown
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,783
Don't ever quote me again. Your not on the same level as me.
 

RAZO

Mayor of Southtown
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,783
Give me Your Phone Number or E-mail so I could contact you when Terra Onion releases their next product. You could come around and Nerd up the forum with your annoying questions and sell your shit that you no longer want.

I told you not to quote me.
 

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
201
PC Engine jailbars can't be fixed externally. The issue is on the power side of the HuC6260. You have to open the console.

Also can't wait to see the finished cases. This is going to make for an awesome start to the new year.
 

RAZO

Mayor of Southtown
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,783
I'm going to stop this shit out of Respect for the Terra Onion Group and Rot since I know they are monitoring this thread but you will here from me again 3rdFag.
 

GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,323
Regards jailbars - you will get them if you haven't modded your console, and no uber quality RGB cable or whatever will fix that. You would need to do the bypass cap mod to the PCE to fix it. I notice it more on my TG16 than the PCE if I am honest. But the Super SD System 3 has no influence on that issue at all - purely lack of the correct bypass caps on the Hu6260.

EDIT: What I am trying to say here is if you have jailbars, its not the Super SD System 3, and no expansion or RGB mod or cable mod can fix that particular issue. It's a mod you would have to do to your PCE. It's starting to feel like people are expecting the Super SD System 3 to solve all their problems in life, part the seas, walk on water etc =D True, it can walk on water, but it cannot magically fix an incorrectly sized capacitor next to the Hu6260 chip :o)
 
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Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Posts
11,441
What the fuck...

You know... it's normal NG.com stuff....

Timezones apart.... I sometimes wake up and see all sorts of weird stuff...

For example... there's the thread in Tech about pce tech stuff: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...e-Super-System3-RGB-Tech-Support&goto=newpost

But most n00bs want to use this thread because it seems easier...

I would prefer that thread in tech to be used if the questions are not device specific...

xROTx

PS. As for the minor kafuffle... it's NG.com... nothing I aint seen before... or will again...
 

RAZO

Mayor of Southtown
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,783
EDIT: What I am trying to say here is if you have jailbars, its not the Super SD System 3, and no expansion or RGB mod or cable mod can fix that particular issue. It's a mod you would have to do to your PCE. It's starting to feel like people are expecting the Super SD System 3 to solve all their problems in life, part the seas, walk on water etc =D True, it can walk on water, but it cannot magically fix an incorrectly sized capacitor next to the Hu6260 chip :o)

I hope 3rdFag reads this. He and many others are expecting this to be a perfect product at a "PREMIUM PRICE".

*Sorry Rot, but this fucker pissed me off.*
 
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neodev

Neosd Tech
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Posts
256
Regards jailbars - you will get them if you haven't modded your console, and no uber quality RGB cable or whatever will fix that. You would need to do the bypass cap mod to the PCE to fix it. I notice it more on my TG16 than the PCE if I am honest. But the Super SD System 3 has no influence on that issue at all - purely lack of the correct bypass caps on the Hu6260.

EDIT: What I am trying to say here is if you have jailbars, its not the Super SD System 3, and no expansion or RGB mod or cable mod can fix that particular issue. It's a mod you would have to do to your PCE. It's starting to feel like people are expecting the Super SD System 3 to solve all their problems in life, part the seas, walk on water etc =D True, it can walk on water, but it cannot magically fix an incorrectly sized capacitor next to the Hu6260 chip :o)

Yes, the jailbars are a problem in the internal hardware of the pce so there is little that can be done externally.

There is theoretically a way to fix it, by tapping the color bus and dot clock in the exp bus, capturing palette writes and regenerating a rgb signal from the digital data that is noise free. I guess this is what the dvi device uses, but they seem to have some issues (probably due to the varying dot clock and resolutions the pce uses). Also that would mean a more powerful and expensive fpga, video DACs and other non trivial stuff ( compensating the signal delays, etc...), bigger pcb to accomodate the extra needed hw... So as I said, it's theoretically doable, but really hard.
 

Syntax_x

n00b
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Posts
18
Well I'm glad I've brought this up.
This way no one can blame the ssds3 for substandard RGB output, it's always going to be a hu6260 issue.
Piss easy fix.
I never really expected the ssds3 to fix the jailbars but didn't want to rule out the possibility, after all this is ground breaking tech here, a first for pce sd iso loading right?
Pretty stoked I no longer have to buy a duo, the money saved will go directly to my ssds3 purchase.
 

thirdkind

Chin's Bartender
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Posts
1,573
Regards jailbars - you will get them if you haven't modded your console, and no uber quality RGB cable or whatever will fix that. You would need to do the bypass cap mod to the PCE to fix it. I notice it more on my TG16 than the PCE if I am honest. But the Super SD System 3 has no influence on that issue at all - purely lack of the correct bypass caps on the Hu6260.

EDIT: What I am trying to say here is if you have jailbars, its not the Super SD System 3, and no expansion or RGB mod or cable mod can fix that particular issue. It's a mod you would have to do to your PCE. It's starting to feel like people are expecting the Super SD System 3 to solve all their problems in life, part the seas, walk on water etc =D True, it can walk on water, but it cannot magically fix an incorrectly sized capacitor next to the Hu6260 chip :o)


Yes, the jailbars are a problem in the internal hardware of the pce so there is little that can be done externally.

There is theoretically a way to fix it, by tapping the color bus and dot clock in the exp bus, capturing palette writes and regenerating a rgb signal from the digital data that is noise free. I guess this is what the dvi device uses, but they seem to have some issues (probably due to the varying dot clock and resolutions the pce uses). Also that would mean a more powerful and expensive fpga, video DACs and other non trivial stuff ( compensating the signal delays, etc...), bigger pcb to accomodate the extra needed hw... So as I said, it's theoretically doable, but really hard.

Thanks guys. Reasonable answers to a reasonable question.

RAZO: Sober up, dickbrain.
 

GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,323
Yes, the jailbars are a problem in the internal hardware of the pce so there is little that can be done externally.

There is theoretically a way to fix it, by tapping the color bus and dot clock in the exp bus, capturing palette writes and regenerating a rgb signal from the digital data that is noise free. I guess this is what the dvi device uses, but they seem to have some issues (probably due to the varying dot clock and resolutions the pce uses). Also that would mean a more powerful and expensive fpga, video DACs and other non trivial stuff ( compensating the signal delays, etc...), bigger pcb to accomodate the extra needed hw... So as I said, it's theoretically doable, but really hard.

Hehe, yes - I did think about taking the VD bus output (like that other product you mentioned there), but wasn't about to suggest you go away and do a revision with a larger FPGA =D The RGB looks fantastic, and the reality is the single capacitor mod to the Hu6260 is super easy to do if anyone is loosing sleep over the very minor jail bars that some PCE models can show.
 

neosd

Neosd Developer
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Posts
956
Nobody cares what you found acceptable as a kid.

This is a premium product with a premium price, so it's not out of bounds to expect premium performance. Thankfully, we have smart (and probably nerdy) folks like neosd and neodev capable of THINKING and not just DOING, which is why we have this awesome piece of kit in the first place. If they can set proper expectations by addressing a reasonable question about a common occurrence with RGB output on older consoles, let them.

Would you rather nobody asked and it turned into an issue after it ships? You want angry nerds converging on the forum screeching about jail bars because nobody mentioned it beforehand?

About the price, i will give our point of view from developer/manufacturer side :

This an sale in Europe

Captura-de-pantalla-2017-12-16-a-las-10.34.28.png


Customer pays 254,52 euros for a Super SD System 3

We get 210,35 euros for this sale, the rest is VAT

Then we have to pay shipment that is 12,85 euros actually (before vat), that means that the final amount we get from this sale is 197,5 euros

Outside of europe the story is different, we get 254,52 and we have to pay 12,85 euros to ship it.
This give us 241,67

Asuming we will sell 50% in europe and 50% outside of europe, this would give us a final amount of 219,585 for each Supe SD System 3

Ok, so from there we have to pay chips, mould, manufacturing, pcbs, cardbox, cardbox setup and an infinite list of things.

On this project it worked a lot of people, not just neodev and myself but A LOT of people.

Sum the hours we are putting and the rest of the people that worked there.
Lets say we sell 1.000 units, this is 219.000 euros. The salary of someone like neodev is about 55.000 euros per year here in spain, plus company fees that has to pay to the gov, this is about 72.000 euros what a engeneer like neodev would cost to a company.

Sum that to the company fees we have to pay and the real cost of production of each Super SD Sytem 3.

With the price tag we had setup for Super SD Sytem 3, if we just sell 1.000 units, we are fucked, we loose money.

We need to sell much more than neosd did with this price set and this is our goal. Sales on Super SD System 3 will set the next products price tags.


I already had this discussion on Spanish forums.

We are not nintendo selling 3 million units of the NES mini, if we would sell that, we would be happy just getting 1 euro on each sale. But we are not Nintendo neither our product is for the NES.

Anyways, remember that everyone that bought NEOSD made Super SD System 3 a reallity, and everyone buying Super SD System 3 is making our next products a reallity.

You guys with your purchases have the power to deliver to the market some incredible pieces of hardware.

We have the ability to deliver those with your purchases.

Our goal on the sales side is to sell as many units as possible to sell at lower price so our products will arrive to a bigger userbase. This wasn´t possible with Neo Geo cause the risk was far too high. We are taking the risk now with Pc Engine, a minoritarie console compared with something like the nes or the SNES. We will see how good or how bad it goes .... We talk next year ...

Thanks
 
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thirdkind

Chin's Bartender
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Posts
1,573
About the price, i will give our point of view from developer/manufacturer side :

This an sale in Europe

Captura-de-pantalla-2017-12-16-a-las-10.34.28.png


Customer pays 254,52 euros for a Super SD System 3
We get 210,35 euros for this sale, the rest is VAT
Then we have to pay shipment that is 12,85 euros actually (before vat), that means that the final amount we get from this sale is 197,5 euros

Outside of europe the story is different, we get 254,52 and we have to pay 12,85 euros to ship it.
This give us 241,67

Asuming we will sell 50% in europe and 50% outside of europe, this would give us a final amount of 219,585 for each Supe SD System 3

Ok, so from there we have to pay chips, mould, manufacturing, pcbs, cardbox, cardbox setup and an infinite list of things.

On this project it worked a lot of people, not just neodev and myself but A LOT of people.

Sum the ours we are putting and the rest of the people that worked there.
Lets say we sell 1.000 units, this is 219.000 euros. The salary of someone like neodev is about 55.000 euros per year here in spain, plus company fees that has to pay to the gov, this is about 72.000 euros what a engeneer like neodev would cost to a company.

Sum that to the company fees we have to pay and the real cost of production of each Super SD Sytem 3.

With the price tag we had setup for Super SD Sytem 3, if we just sell 1.000 units, we are fucked, we loose money.

We need to sell much more than neosd did with this price set and this is our goal. Sales on Super SD System 3 will set the next products price tags.


I already had this discussion on Spanish forums.

We are not nintendo selling 3 million units of the NES mini, if we would sell that, we would be happy just getting 1 euro on each sale. But we are not Nintendo neither our product is for the NES.

Anyways, remember that everyone that bought NEOSD made Super SD System 3 a reallity, and everyone buying Super SD System 3 is making our next products a reallity.

You guys with your purchases have the power to deliver to the market some incredible pieces of hardware.

We have the ability to deliver those with your purchases.

Thanks

Thanks for the info. I never criticized the price. I think it's totally reasonable for what we get. I don't think it's unreasonable to call it a premium product (I certainly think it is, and I bet you do also) at a premium price (most people outside this hobby would probably agree that paying $300 USD to play games on a decades-old console most of them never heard of is a price premium...which I say again is totally reasonable for hobbyists).

To be clear, I gladly gave you my money and probably would have given you more ;)
 
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