When SNK died....the neo geo died

rugal2000 · Oct 26, 2002

Ive always played mainly SNK, but Ive alwyas thought that since about 1995 the quality of SNK backgrounds in a game has been real erratic.Even art of fighting 3 /the last blade series/MOTW and the KOF series, have some backgrounds that are amazing, some characters that have astonishing animation, eg Ryo in AF3 and Khushnood Butt in MOTW, then others in the same game will be poor.

If you look at Capcom backgrounds and animation, there is a very high level of consistency, every level will feature high quailty backgrounds.

Genarally I think Capcom backgrounds always have greater animation than the actual characters and thats how they get away with creating great graphics.

I say all this cos i just played Street fighter 3 3rd striker on the dreamcast which i picked up for £7 (US$12) and its a better game than MOTW which would cost £300 (US$450)!!
Go figure

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]

buster_broon · Oct 26, 2002

interested in a motw wasim

only £280 - saving you £20

i do agree what you are saying actually

Pep · Oct 26, 2002

I personally like both styles of games. But may be what you say about backgrounds is simply due to the fact that the majority of Neo games are a bit older than Capcom ones, in fact MOTW is beginning to be aged, I mean it was released quite ago, and Third Strike I think is more recent. If you take a look to KOF 2002 or ROTD you will not see that difference.

About the price buy MOTW in Dreamcast and it will cost you the same you have paid for SF3.

I suggest you to play also SF Alpha for Dreamcast, SF Double Impact and Jo Jo’s if you have not done it yet, they are great too, and of course do not forget Caopcom Vs SNK series and Marvel vs Capcom series.

By the way, how many times have you changed your avatar?, you are very confusing man

rugal2000 · Oct 26, 2002

Pep ,can you really find a MOTW on dreamcast for that amount,£7, personally I have only seen it on import for £60 (US$100).

U make a very good point, its easy to forget MOTW is 3 years old now.

But playing street fighter 3rd striker today, I was just astonished at the fresh feel to the game, the great character design, the amazing backgrounds ,etc.

I bought a KOF 99, off laurent last week, and only had a chance to put it on this evening after playing SF3.I had never seen KOF99 before in person, only in magazines.When I did ...It looked like any other KOF game these last 6 years....like shit.

But then again comparing KOf 96,97,98,99,2000,2001 to titles in the same period in capcoms history ,in terms of backgrounds/general graphics/music/innovation is like comparing a Ford with a Rolls Royce.

This is a real shame....but its cos SNK has been dead for 3 years now.When they were in their heyday 1991-96 no company could touch SNK for mastery of 2d graphics and innovation in fighters.

So many examples, the Art of fighting series/ the samurai shodown series/metal slug 1-3 these were just as astonishing when they came out as street fighter 3 3rd strike is now.

SNK fighters from 1991-94 always looked better than capcom ones.But the balance has long been overturned.

Now I realise most KOF fanatics (I was one once) have been content to get excited over a product with shit graphics/rehashed sprites and crap music.

we'll never see anyone reach the graphical heights of art of fighting 3 on the neo geo again, let alone try and match the origional Street fighter 3 of 1997

I dont think its neccesarily anything to do with hardware, cos Art of fighting 3 looked good, and so many saturn fighters like Xmen looked better than KOF too, and surely neo geo is better than saturn in terms of hardware?? I know people will say , will capcom have updated hardware constatly while we still have the aged mvs, but to those people I say, well look at what slug 1/2/3 were able to do, look at grants stage in MOTW, look at some of the stuff in last blade 1-2...its not about hardware

I just think cos Capcom have had a certain graphical style for years, and kept the same programming teams, so that way they have been able to evolve with the same style.

On the other hand, the SNK style that was backed up by brilliant designers and programmers from 1991-1999, now only has idiots doing a poor imitation, when are we going to see innovation like the battle mural on the charlotte stage in samurai shodown 2 on a neo geo fighter ever again??

All this makes me think maybe SNK V Capcom isnt the sure thing it first seemed like.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]

Liquid Snake · Oct 26, 2002

Originally posted by rugal2000:

SNK fighters from 1991-94 always looked better than capcom ones.But the balance has long been overturned.
<hr></blockquote>

LOL

It just shows you don't know shit about video game.

Tell me if SNK has any good fighting game in 1991. Street Smart? Burning fight (it's beat-n-up, and it's not actually an fighting game)? Fatal Fury (3 selectable characters, horrible control)?

Street Fighter II series in 1991 was the only "good" fighting game in the market.

Art of Fighting appears in 1992, it's a "good looking" game but control is still horrible. And I forgot about it only has two selectable characters

SNK had some top notch fighting games appeared in 1993-94 and that's the golden age for SNK fighter (Fatal fury special, Samurai Shodown, Samurai Shodown 2....etc)

NSX-T · Oct 26, 2002

Calm down, stupidass. Not everybody were as old as you in 91. We laugh at you because you are a 43 years old.

Galford Forever · Oct 26, 2002

Originally posted by NSX-T:
Calm down, stupidass. Not everybody were as old as you in 91. We laugh at you because you are a 43 years old.<hr></blockquote>

You are the biggest loser ever. You never have anything worthwhile to say other than to come in and blast Liquid. And you make fun of those with disabilities.

Liquid Snake · Oct 26, 2002

Originally posted by NSX-T:
Calm down, stupidass. Not everybody were as old as you in 91. We laugh at you because you are a 43 years old.<hr></blockquote>

what a short dick man.........

RabbitTroop · Oct 27, 2002

Wow, NSX-T can really hold a grudge... I haven't even seen Liquid Snake attack you in a public forum in months, but you are still as hostile as ever... wow!

-Nick

Pep · Oct 27, 2002

Rugal2000,

I paid about 30$ for my MOTW Dreamcast copy few months ago, so if you look trough internet I think you could find a nice deal, however I suggest you to go for the MVS. I think may be you should try KOF 99 in Dreamcast because the backgrounds are in 3D, and given what you have said I think you will like it a lot.

Honestly I do not feel that much difference between Capcom and SNK; lately maybe yes due to what I said about SNK age games, but if you compare FF2 with SF2, I think there graphically FF2 is much better. Anyhow, yes, maybe Capcom games use to be more detailed, in fact 3rd Strike probably has better backgrounds than KOF 2000, but again I have great fun with both.

Fran · Oct 27, 2002

Shito · Oct 27, 2002

Originally posted by Fran:
 <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> <hr></blockquote>

I second that.

rugal2000 · Oct 27, 2002

Liquid snake im so pleased someone like u exists to correct me.

Your Quote: "Tell me if SNK has any good fighting game in 1991. Street Smart? Burning fight (it's beat-n-up, and it's not actually an fighting game)? "

Answer:Well for starters Fatal Fury 1(1991) was so "good" it had 7 sequels!!!And it was Geese Howard and the whole South Town story line starter.I still play this game.

Fact Fatal fury 2 (1992)and special (1993) look better than Street fighter 2 (1991) or street fighter 2 CE (1992) or Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (1994)

Fact Art of fighting 1 (1992) and Art of fighting 2 (1994) looks better than all of em

And I wont even mention KOf 94 or sam 2.

[ March 10, 2003, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]

FeelGood · Oct 28, 2002

Fatal Fury 1 is indicative how much madness is necessary for genius to exist.

Fatal Fury 1 = crap

past present and future tenses.

It offered a 2 on one mode and that was it. Characters looked ugly - Richard Meier has been banned from video games for life. He can take his silly and obnoxious capoera and spin off the ceiling with it. How did we all fall in love with Geese? Well, he didn't look good until AoF 2. And then after that Fatal Fury 3, or RBFF1 depending on your taste ...

But at the same time, by '93 SNK was able to release something really incredbile - Samurai Spirits. That was the genius.

But in sheer stupidity or madness, they had to make 8 other fatal furies... No matter how many times you show me a plate full of shit I'm always going to tell you it's a plate full of shit. Now fetch me my Sam Sho.

And too bad they've been trying to squeeze out that crap series KoF every year for the past 9 - imagine all the better things they could be doing with their extremely limited budgets...

neobuyer · Oct 28, 2002

Well <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> is right....Well I see bad taste is certainly not in short supply in this thread.

First off- SFIII:3rd Strike has WEAK backgrounds. WEAK.

And anyone who thinks Capcom makes better BGs than SNK overall has all the aesthetic sense of Boy George and Elton John collided together at a million fucking miles an hour in a carefully controlled, scientific experiment.

That assertion is probably the most BONE HEADED thing I've read on this site since Jhendrix claimed the best looking 2D game of all time was Diablo 2. :eek:

The only Capcom games with really good BGs are: SF Alpha 2, the entire Darkstalkers/Vampire series, Cyberbots and maybe Marvel Super Heroes.

SNK has ALWAYS had better BGs, that's one of the things that makes their games unique.

AOF 2 and 3
SamSho
KOF 94,95,96,99
Ninja Masters

Those are games with brilliant BGs.

The best single game for BGs as far as Capcom is concerned is a tie between Vampire Hunter and SF Alpha 2.

Hot Chocolate · Oct 28, 2002

Originally posted by neobuyer:
Well <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> is right....Well I see bad taste is certainly not in short supply in this thread.

First off- SFIII:3rd Strike has WEAK backgrounds. WEAK.

And anyone who thinks Capcom makes better BGs than SNK overall has all the aesthetic sense of Boy George and Elton John collided together at a million fucking miles an hour in a carefully controlled, scientific experiment.

That assertion is probably the most BONE HEADED thing I've read on this site since Jhendrix claimed the best looking 2D game of all time was Diablo 2.

The only Capcom games with really good BGs are: SF Alpha 2, the entire Darkstalkers/Vampire series, Cyberbots and maybe Marvel Super Heroes.

SNK has ALWAYS had better BGs, that's one of the things that makes their games unique.

AOF 2 and 3
SamSho
KOF 94,95,96,99
Ninja Masters

Those are games with brilliant BGs.

The best single game for BGs as far as Capcom is concerned is a tie between Vampire Hunter and SF Alpha 2.<hr></blockquote>

What he said except add on KoF 2k on the brilliant bg's(i love the aquarium(sp?) stage)

Rage of the Spyder · Oct 28, 2002

No offense, and I do not mean to insult any of you, but MotW blows any Capcom release out of the water. Look at how smooth SNK releases are, compare them to choppy Capcom releases and you will see a huge difference. Even SNK vs. Capcom 2 EO on the GC can not hold its own with MotW for the DC, let alone the NG! If you think SF3 is amazing, you have not seen RotD, RotD is a work of art.

They are two totally different styles of graphics due to the different graphics chipsets.... Capcom is more fresh, but the Neo uses the old school graphics, which I prefer in 2D fighters. For instance, recently I showed a friend of mine MotW, and the first thing out of his mouth was, "it looks like Final Fight".

Like I said, if you look at the detail applied to each game that is where SNK shines. MotW is a prime example. Compare it to Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO and you will notice how much better MotW "groves" compared to Capcom... SNK is amazing in what they did, what they do, and what they are continuing to do. There will be a huge difference between Capcom's Capcom vs. SNK, and SNK's Capcom vs. SNK.

SNK is not dead, the same great people are behind it, and it is not going anywhere, it is still "the king".

Mike

rugal2000 · Oct 29, 2002

Wow !!
Neobuyer You sound like one of those sweaty, bearded dudes still playing Pong and claiming it has better "gameplay" than newer consoles.

So in your opinion Xmen and Warzard didnt have good bg's??

No wonder we've seen the same rancid KOF graphical rehashes all these years, when there are so many people willing to praise as "good looking"..stuff that summararily gets slammed in every mainstream/hardcore magazine outside japan as "ugly"......just read edge, C & VG,EGM,or any dedicated format magazine, alll these years, whereever they cover a KOF game, and I have a shit load of em in my garage, and everytime a KOF fighter is reviewed since 95, the first thing that is remarked on is the general ugliness of the graphics followed by a patronising statement, like "but all the fun is in the gameplay".

In fact dreamcast magazine even said Last blade 2 "had the kind of looks only a mother could love"

I agree MOTW has great BG's like Grants stage but then there are at least 2 others that are like something on a genesis.

In contrast street fighter 3 has greatness all the way!It sures a real care in the product, which KOF games dont have anymore (note: I aint seen KOf2002 yet)

Fatal Fury 1 was great and Ill call it that, capoera was a very hard fighting style to convert into a game but FF1 was the 1st to do it properly.And that was an example of SNK innovation The backgrounds for their time were better than SF2.Especially geeses stage.I still think it looks good

And thats the point here, SNK fighting games from the "golden era" we discussed had a magic quality to the bgs that enhanced the game and added to the atmosphere.

Take for example Savage reign , this game never gets talked about but it is Kizuna encounter part 1, and just about every stage has a bg that is a masterpiece.....just about the greatest sustained brilliance in b'gs seen on the neo next to sam 1,2, aof 2,3 and slug 1,2,x,3.In fact the whole reason SNK V Capcom is so anticipated on the neo, is cos people want to see SNK make a updated fighter with the polish and freshness of Capcoms bg's and grahpics.Just go ahead and read all the threads dedicated to that point.

The point of this thread was firstly to remark on how the innovation in gaming and the graphical excellence that was a hallmark of the neo geo from day one (along with the huge prices) has declined

And the second point was to state my respect for street fighter 3.

[ March 10, 2003, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]

Rage of the Spyder · Oct 29, 2002

You obviosuly are one of the most ignorent people I have ever meet. In short any NeoGeo game blows the crap out of any Capcom games, "time vs times".

The reason why SNK vs. Capcom is so anticipated is so SNK can finally correct the game to SNK correct combos, bgs, and grooves.

Bottom line no Capcom release has been on par with any SNK release. Capcom does not pay attention to detail like SNK can does. Capcom story lines are crap. Their charcters are undeveloped. In the SF series there are only a few good charcters, but compared to MotW every charcter is amazing. Every charcters is a work of art, which can not be said for Capcom releases. When a chracters moves in SNK games the whole charcters moves somehow, as does his hair, and clothing. And, all Capcom games have crappy Combo systems.

Mike

SonGohan · Oct 29, 2002

Capcom makes good games too. You don't have to hate Capcom to love your Neo or SNK even more.

neobuyer · Oct 29, 2002

Hmmmm....

Taste, admittedly a subjective thing, a bit hard to pin down and put a finger on sometimes, eh?

I mean, one man's Mona Lisa is another man's shit.

BUT...

Street Fighter III has mediocre backgrounds that are totally uninspired.

Yeah

Street Fighter III has nowhere near the BGs SF Alpha 2 has. It's not even amongst Capcom's best work, BG-wise, let alone better than SNK's games.

Look, if you think that SFIII has better BGs than, say, Last Blade 1 for example, then you are just hopelessly lost in a sea of cereberally defecient, uberbad taste.

And YEAH, taste is pretty fucking important. It's the difference between listening to Britney Spears or listening to The Smiths.

And yeah, alot of people think that Street Fighter III has amazing backgrounds, and there are also alot of people who are fucking idiots. Just coincidence? hmmmmmmm I dunno.

So, since this is NEO-GEO.COM, and people are drawn here out of appreciation for the... oh yeah NEO GEO, why don't we take our bad taste, pack it up nice and tight in some sort of airtight container, stick it in the attic and get a clue about reality.

neobuyer · Oct 29, 2002

...And another thing

Just to qualify- I certainly do not hate, or even dislike Capcom. I have most all their SNES and beyond console releases (yes, including SF3: DI and 3rd Strike) and I think many of their games are absolute classics- SF Alpha 2 is an awesome game with great, great BGs. The entire Darkstalkers/Vampire series is also freakin' amazing. Warriors of Fate and AVP are awesome as well. I like, nay- love, ALOT of Capcom games.

But, no force, in heaven or on earth will make Capcom's BGs in Street Fighter III any better than the mediocrity they are.

rugal2000 · Oct 29, 2002

Neobuyer thats cool with me ,they are your opinions, just like my views are my opinion, and in retrospect I think its very cool, if U really feel that way about SNK bgs, its obvious U know a lot about both capcom/snk games.

Rage of the spyder??.... I dislike these kind of childish.."my dick is bigger than your dick " type posters.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]

k'_127 · Oct 29, 2002

I don't care about the backgrounds as much as I care about gameplay. just look at all what have really developed in 2D fighting games. nothing has changed as much as gameplay wich is the real value of a 2D game .all the rest (BGs ,grfx ,music , ....... ) are in the same level . as for my opinion in BGs in general , I prefer a bad animated background in a forest or on the top of a mountain (or any amazing site) ,to one in a cave with a well animated fire or smll waterfall in it ................ uh , and I hate 3D backgrounds for 2D fighters

Rage of the Spyder · Oct 29, 2002

Rage of the Spyder - anyone who has ever played RotD, and has read background information on the characters need no explanation of my handle.

I am stating facts, on what Capcom game can you actually say, "those characters are amazing". Capcom simply makes three or four good characters, and produces fourteen shit characters, produces a half ass "B" rated script, renders some shitty blurry BGs, and slams the product out the door. Is that genius? Is that art?

The only Capcom games I truly love are SF2 Super for 3DO, Xmen vs. SF for Sega Saturn Import, and Vampire Hunters for Sega Saturn Import.

Mike

When SNK died....the neo geo died

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