Pranslation (MVS-->AES adapter) Info and Compatibility

Billkwando said:

Did you unsolder the wires just to take the pictures?

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Yes Billkwando, I unsoldered the wires just to take the pics. I should have taken a before picture of the wires as I am having a hard time recalling where to put the other 2 that I took off. lol A little trial and error tonight, I can see that now.

Fakk2 said:

Yes Billkwando, I unsoldered the wires just to take the pics. I should have taken a before picture of the wires as I am having a hard time recalling where to put the other 2 that I took off. lol A little trial and error tonight, I can see that now.

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It's too bad you don't still have the ones you took back in '06, but that would be a long time to keep something on your HDD.

Billkwando said:

It's too bad you don't still have the ones you took back in '06, but that would be a long time to keep something on your HDD.

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Well, I backup nearly everything onto DVDrs, so chances are they are around here somewhere, but I own many many dvdrs with a ton of shit on them, and it would take more time than it's worth to find them.

Anyways, after a little trial and error I figured out where the two wires went and all is working like normal again. Now for the pics, and to try out a few other things.

EDIT: After numerous hours messing around with the Pranslation I now have it working with higher meg count games! I played Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 The Newcomers all the way through without any issues, and that's 539 Megs! I also have been playing my encrypted Nightmare in the Dark for the past hour or so, and have been enjoying it very much on the Pranslation.

There are however a few issues still. It will not boot up KOF 2000, or CTHD 2003 (boot). So I'm guessing that the Encrypted games using just 1 enc. board and a normal sound board will play fine ie: Ganryu, Strikers 1945, Prehistoric Isle 2, Bang Bead, Sengoku 3, and NITD. Ones with 2 encrypted boards seem to be giving trouble so far. Of coarse I do not own most of these on MVS anymore to test out so I only have a handful of games left to try out. I will play a few more and go to bed as it's nearing 10AM and I am dead tired after working on the Pranslation all night, figuring out it's ins and outs.

Funny thing is, the guy who sold it to me said the cart might be banked as high as it can possibly go, and if he came up with anything he would let me know. So I basically just said fine and didn't bother to even try to bank it higher. After last night I found it to be pretty easy after trial and error, and now I feel pretty damn dumb for not doing it sooner. Thanks again DavidG. for letting us know it CAN be done! And thanks for the tip on the method to fix encrypted games for it! I really don't think I would have ever thought of that myself to be honest.

More testing to be done, and I have taken some pictures as well for those interested. I might need to still send the cart out to David if I can't figure out how to get the other encrypted games to work, but so far it is definitely working with many more games now. I just wish I had more games to test out...like KOF98

New Pranslation Pics and more compatibility!

Just as was stated last night, after experimenting with the Pranslation for many hours doing tests I managed to get it to bank higher than ever before! It should be able to play games up to the 600 Meg limit, and perhaps even further. If I had KOF98 to test with I could confirm the new meg limit. I have been able to play Real Bout 2 without any graphical issues (among all my other MVS carts under 600Megs), and with the kind/awesome help of DavidG. I also managed to fix "some" compatibility with a few of the encrypted games as well.

The Pranslation should now finally be able to play all normal MVS games on the Master List from NAM75 to Captain Tomaday, and it should also be able to play the encrypted games Bang Bead, Ganryu, Nightmare in the Dark, Prehistoric Isle 2, Strikers 1945 PLUS, and Sengoku 3. It might be able to play Pochi and Nyaa as well, but I'm not sure as I don't have it for testing among most of the encrypted games.

So here are the pics of the newest modification, please let me know if you find anything I can add to it to make the compatibility even better. I will be sending out the Pranslation to David soon and perhaps he can push it further! We shall see.

New Mod Pics for PRANSLATION Below (and also a look at the cart shell):

Pranslation Empty Case Front


Pranslation Empty Case Insides


Board 1 Side B Modded


Board 1 Side B Modded (with plastic spacer)


Board 1 Side A Modded NEW!!


Again many thanks goes out to DavidG. for letting everyone know that these mods are a possibility for these old converters. Also, his advice on getting some encrypted games working is invaluable. You rock mate!

Hopefully DavidG. can push it even further than this and we can unlock ALL Encrypted games and boots as well! However, as of right now this still will not play some encrypted games, boots, or newest NG Dev games either. But it's still much more than it ever was, that's for sure. Due to this converter not having any issues with scaling, and being able to play the games sticking out the front of the AES cart shell is a huge plus also, so it might end up being the best converter ever made a bit down the road from now once it can play all games on the system.

My biggest question now is, why did !Arcade! use the Neo-Geo decrypting chips at all in their Phantom-1 converters if they didn't have to? Does the SMVSC2 use the SNK custom decrypting chips also? Why even bother going through the trouble of using them when they aren't needed?

Honest answer was cost. After taking apart a few phantom-1's they were designed to take 2 different snk chips or a custom chip. Looking back to 1999-2000, games like ganryu mvs were going for $10 new, so it was all about cost. Smvs2 uses a custom chip.

Hey all,

I got my modded converter back from David yesterday and it works AWESOME. So glad to have sound out of both speakers.

I didn't have a whole lot of time to try stuff out yesterday, but I fired up my 161-in-1 cart and played

Last Blade 2
Captain Tomaday
Kizuna Encounter
Magical Drop 3
Bust A Move
KOF 2003
SNK Vs Capcom Plus (boss hack)
(alas, I forgot to try Super Dodge Ball)

Using the original debug bios, I was able to switch region and Home/MVS options with no probs. The option to hold start on the 1p controller to go back to the menu doesn't work, but it doesn't seem to work with any converter from what I've been reading, so no biggie. I have to get up and turn the Neo off and back on every time I wanna change games, just like our forefathers intended. At least I won't be one of those people complaining about how the multicart is "too convenient" (whatever that means) cos "it's so easy to switch games that you don't fully appreciate them". I assure you, I'm gonna fully appreciate the crap out of something before I get my lazy ass up off the couch. I find myself "fully appreciating" my cup of cold coffee quite often.

So yeah, David did a great job. Despite the occasional naysayer, he did exactly what he claimed to be able to do (and kept up great communication with me, sending and answering multiple PMs a day when there was something to talk about). I have a feeling he will continue to do things previously thought impossible for a long time to come. He's a great new member of the community.

(TL;DR version, "DavidG's the fuckin' man, yo!")

The only problem I have is that now all my games play in Canadian.

Damn you David!!! ARRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!





P.S. I wonder if we could find someplace more permanant to host the P mod pics?

Billkwando said:

Despite the occasional naysayer .... previously thought impossible for a long time to come.

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I'm glad he did a good job, but for the record it's apples and oranges. This was thought to be impossible??? You can even add one more wire to play gigabit character games can i has cookie?

Kyuusaku said:

I'm glad he did a good job, but for the record it's apples and oranges. This was thought to be impossible??? You can even add one more wire to play gigabit character games can i has cookie?

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Dude, you know a lot more than I do, but you were still being a douche about the whole thing. I noticed you've been awfully silent as of late, no doubt waiting for him to fuck it up so you could roll in and say "I told you so".

Besides, I only said that I anticipated what he might do in the future. What was the last decade-old tech problem you solved?

Maybe you've made some great contributions to the scene that I don't know about? I'm being serious here. I only recently discovered Xian Xi's site, and it's pretty awesome.


Edit:
Something can easily be "thought to be impossible" if nobody's gotten off their ass and done it yet.

I suppose there's a myriad of similar issues that you could solve if you only deigned to be bothered?

Actually I wasn't planning on posting, I'm back because I'm subscribed to the thread and you kind of summoned me. I have nothing against DavidG, I aired it all out. There would be nothing to say "I told you so" about; the whole issue was that I dislike false idols (this place is kind of susceptible to them), and despite just starting out myself, I find all sorts of faults (factual and electrical) with his posts. Not a big deal since they don't hurt anyone, but they annoy me.

My contributions to this site have been giving technical facts and correcting people, mostly to assist them repairing their hardware. I don't know what how broad of a scene you mean but this is not my home base. My plan for "giving back" (I haven't received much) was to release the logic to an MVS converter entirely, but since I've learned how numerous people here will stand to profit from it, as is typical, that's no longer happening since nobody would follow a license. Maybe soon I'll post about some things I've developed for a little glory. Anyways I'm raining on the parade again...

Kyuusaku said:

Actually I wasn't planning on posting, I'm back because I'm subscribed to the thread and you kind of summoned me. I have nothing against DavidG, I aired it all out. There would be nothing to say "I told you so" about; the whole issue was that I dislike false idols (this place is kind of susceptible to them), and despite just starting out myself, I find all sorts of faults (factual and electrical) with his posts. Not a big deal since they don't hurt anyone, but they annoy me.

My contributions to this site have been giving technical facts and correcting people, mostly to assist them repairing their hardware. I don't know what how broad of a scene you mean but this is not my home base. My plan for "giving back" (I haven't received much) was to release the logic to an MVS converter entirely, but since I've learned how numerous people here will stand to profit from it, as is typical, that's no longer happening since nobody would follow a license. Maybe soon I'll post about some things I've developed for a little glory. Anyways I'm raining on the parade again...

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I probably shouldn't have mentioned you, but nitpicking stuff like technical terminology and throwing around words like "charlatan" in reference to someone who's jumped out of the bushes, offering to help out with something that nobody else would, is just not nice. Especially when said individual is working for free, and whose only interest is his own edification, and a desire to help his fellow fellow.

Will he benefit from the knowledge somehow, or even profit from it at some point? Maybe! All I know is that he really helped me out, was super nice to me, and asked for nothing in return.....after soldering a hundred something points on my converter, TWICE. (That's some tedious shit! Not to mention sawing up a cart shell...which he didn't have to do if all he wanted was info from my converter) So forgive me if I felt like he deserved a little heralding at your expense. Too many people start genuinely helpful projects only to eventually abandon them, due to people who contribute nothing while crapping on their efforts. I guess he didn't need your factual or electrical assistance after all.

So yeah, I probably shouldn't have poked the hornet's nest, but oh well. I felt like he deserved that much, since he's not gonna pat himself on the back.

There's a big difference between saying "Look what I can do" and saying "Look what I'm willing to do for you".

Edit: I will say that the desire to protect the community from fakes and fraudsters is a noble one. Nobody respects that more than me. All I intended was a bit of gentle ribbing in your direction cos you happened to be wrong in this particular case. It's not neo-geo.com if we don't give each other a little shit now and then, right?

Well, I am glad that Billkwando received his converter and it plays all the games now. That's pretty neat indeed! So I went to the UPS today and shipped out my Pranslation to him. It should take about 3-7 days and when David receives it he can let us all know whats left to be done on the Pranslation to unlock the rest of the games!

Hopefully he can add every wire needed for complete future use so it will work with all games from this point forward. I look forward to his replys and pics on his progress, and an explanation on what wire does what, so I can gain more knowledge from this experience on how the Pranslation is wired.

Nothing but good things can happen from this. So, David, be careful with my baby when prying the boards apart as the contacts are getting worn from being opened too often, and try to make sure it works proper before sending back and taking pics (of coarse). Thanks again!

Fakk2 said:

Well, I am glad that Billkwando received his converter and it plays all the games now. That's pretty neat indeed! So I went to the UPS today and shipped out my Pranslation to him. It should take about 3-7 days and when David receives it he can let us all know whats left to be done on the Pranslation to unlock the rest of the games!

Hopefully he can add every wire needed for complete future use so it will work with all games from this point forward. I look forward to his replys and pics on his progress, and an explanation on what wire does what, so I can gain more knowledge from this experience on how the Pranslation is wired.

Nothing but good things can happen from this. So, David, be careful with my baby when prying the boards apart as the contacts are getting worn from being opened too often, and try to make sure it works proper before sending back and taking pics (of coarse). Thanks again!

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He's definitely careful. I sent mine wrapped in bubble wrap, and he sent it back in an anti-static bag, which was also wrapped in bubblewrap.

He also did hours of testing with mine, including leaving it running for long stretches of time to make sure it had no random reboots.

Edit: I just played 18 holes of Neo Turmasters on the 161 cart, with no probs. These carts seem pretty stable with the converters. Prolly even moreso if the converter has a cart shell. I've had 2 random "address errors" (one with Bust a Move and one with Rage of the Dragons), that I'm pretty sure were just the converter/cart settling.

Fakk2 said:

Nothing but good things can happen from this. So, David, be careful with my baby when prying the boards apart as the contacts are getting worn from being opened too often, and try to make sure it works proper before sending back and taking pics (of coarse). Thanks again!

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Those sockets are not a good choice for that style pin. Even with normal 14 to 42 pin chips I don't like using those. Once they bend even if you bend them back they are never the same. What we can do is swap them out with the correct connector. Once done you could pull the boards apart as much as you want and will never run into this problem again. Once I have it in hand I will match the correct connector and show you first.

I needed something to pad the box with as it was too large for the converter. Did you like the first half of the Ontario tax laws book? . It's never a bad thing when the government steps in to help.

DavidG said:

I needed something to pad the box with as it was too large for the converter. Did you like the first half of the Ontario tax laws book? . It's never a bad thing when the government steps in to help.

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LOL

Billkwando said:

He's definitely careful. I sent mine wrapped in bubble wrap, and he sent it back in an anti-static bag, which was also wrapped in bubblewrap.

He also did hours of testing with mine, including leaving it running for long stretches of time to make sure it had no random reboots.

Edit: I just played 18 holes of Neo Turmasters on the 161 cart, with no probs. These carts seem pretty stable with the converters. Probably even more so if the converter has a cart shell. I've had 2 random "address errors" (one with Bust a Move and one with Rage of the Dragons), that I'm pretty sure were just the converter/cart settling.

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Awesome, I cant wait to see what mods needed to be done to get the Pranslation working further. And yeah, a cart shell should make it more stable.

So the P was delivered this morning. I should have some info about it late tonight or tomorrow. I don't see any problems getting this to run every game. I see what you mean with the sockets they are stressed.

DavidG said:

So the P was delivered this morning. I should have some info about it late tonight or tomorrow. I don't see any problems getting this to run every game. I see what you mean with the sockets they are stressed.

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I'm glad it arrived safely to you, and I'm glad to hear it might be able to play all the games. Please let me know as soon as you find out what more it needs. The little plastic thing on the inside cracked and wore out about a day before I sent it out, and that's why I wrapped it in duct tape. Couldn't think of anything better at the time. If you can think of something better, please let me know.

Before I begin new photos and the mod I like to see how the converter works with the games I have. So far I'm having a hell of a time getting this to work. On my first gen system with very weak slots I can get the game to start but no gfx or sound and thats only 1 out of 10 tries. Bill's converter had gfx issues as well on this board but it would start almost everytime. The p1 and the smvs2 work everytime on this board.

On my 3-4 system thats in very good condition again its hard to get this converter to work. I've been able to get it to work after 10+ tries so I know the converter works fine but getting the exact spot it wants is difficult. Bill's worked everytime once I knew what angle it liked.

I plan to drop new cart slots into the first gen system which should help with testing. Have you had the same problem with having to try many times to play a single game?

DavidG said:

Before I begin new photos and the mod I like to see how the converter works with the games I have. So far I'm having a hell of a time getting this to work. On my first gen system with very weak slots I can get the game to start but no gfx or sound and thats only 1 out of 10 tries. Bill's converter had gfx issues as well on this board but it would start almost everytime. The p1 and the smvs2 work everytime on this board.

On my 3-4 system thats in very good condition again its hard to get this converter to work. I've been able to get it to work after 10+ tries so I know the converter works fine but getting the exact spot it wants is difficult. Bill's worked everytime once I knew what angle it liked.

I plan to drop new cart slots into the first gen system which should help with testing. Have you had the same problem with having to try many times to play a single game?

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Is that with the case on, David?

Billkwando said:

Is that with the case on, David?

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Yes. Also the cart slots are the same as the ones on yours but these must be newer as they are almost as hard to use as the P1. Blue screen is what I get most times.

I also have MSX in now so I have a good range of carts to test with. MSX also works fine on all neo AES boards with a P1. I will have to try the SMVS2 with MSX tonight.

DavidG said:

Yes. Also the cart slots are the same as the ones on yours but these must be newer as they are almost as hard to use as the P1. Blue screen is what I get most times.

I also have MSX in now so I have a good range of carts to test with. MSX also works fine on all neo AES boards with a P1. I will have to try the SMVS2 with MSX tonight.

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My Pranslation works fine on the first try on every game I own under the 600 meg limit as it was when I sent it to you. The Pranslation should have no issues at all if all your MVS carts are spotless and clean as a whistle. If there is ANY dirt on the contacts on your MVS carts you need to take out some 91+% rubbing alcohol and some q-tips and clean the hell out of your MVS carts. If your AES is dirty the same needs to be done to that as well.

After everything is pristine, (and I mean pristine), it should work without any issues at all. I have never had a difficult time getting any game to work on the Pranslation, and it makes me curious as to why your having any issues at all? Unless your cart slots are dirty and the carts are dirty then you shouldn't have a difficult time. My AES is old as hell and the pins on my AES are so worn out I have to wiggle most AES carts to get them to work, but not the Pranslation. The Pranslation worked for me flawlessly on my MVS games (under 600 meg, and not encrypted).

Try out older games first, but make sure they are clean, and you might even want to clean the contacts on the Pranslation also. I do that every time I'm done playing any cart on it. Keep it pristine, and she will keep you happy.

Also, you must remember the plastic yellow thing on the inside is broken now and gives way a bit. So you have to set the Pranslation down on a hard flat surface when inserting the carts, and make sure that the cart sits perfectly flush with the Pranslation. If they are not 100% perfectly inserted into the Pranslation, they will not work properly. I tried taping the plastic thing up, but it still is not as supportive as it once was, so the right side of the MVS carts are tougher to get inserted all the way. You will get used to it eventually though.

As for getting nothing but sound and a black screen, or blue screen, that's what I got from games banked too high in the beginning, or encrypted games. After adding the proper wires I was able to play the majority of games on my Pranslation, and believe it or not the Pranslation works better on my AES than the vast majority of AES carts. I never have to wiggle the Pranslation or move the right side up at all when playing games on it. It workes flawlessly on my AES (with non encrypted carts under 600mb)

I'm going home to pour a bottle of rubbing alcohol into my Neo.

Billkwando said:

I'm going home to pour a bottle of rubbing alcohol into my Neo.

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Actually, I have about 10 Bottles of 91+% Rubbing Alcohol, with boxes upon boxes of Q-tips just for cleaning all my carts after using them (no matter what system), and I even have a few nice soft toothbrushes just for cleaning out the cart slots on my AES and MVS cab. My games never give me any issues at all when I go to play them.

If your carts don't look like Yaton Special carts then you should be ok.

I took a near new 3-6 system out to try and it goes to blue screen almost everytime. Best I could get was the game to boot with 90% gfx errors, no sound and random crashing.

I needed to see which board was causing the problem so I took the converter apart (with great care of course) and did some testing. Using a AES program board and your converters gfx board it worked everytime perfectly. Next I used a Phantom-1's program converter board with SvC MVS and your converters gfx board and it works perfectly. I played MS5 for some time with a P1's program board and your gfx board, again its fine. The 150-in-1 also runs with this config so you did a great job on adding the wires.

I'm thinking one or more pins on the 40 pin dip sockets might be toast. Those sockets are easy to swap out with new ones, I was going to do that anyways for you. Tomorrow I will map out the board then test the converter to see which pins are not making contact. Once I have the converter running well I will test every game I have then set out on the mod.

For this converter I will also show the last few pins not used by SNK. I have noticed a few non-snk games using gfx pin B18 so it wouldn't hurt to connect them all.