Suggestions on BNC RGB Cables for consoles?

Geekman1222

Geekman1222

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Can someone give me a good suggestion of a user or outside source I can get well made RGB Console BNC cables. I would make them my self but I dont have the tools and I have way to many other projects going on right now.

Maybe I can get bulk rates or something from somewhere. Everything i seen on StealBay is stupid expensive and will require me to buy a Scart to BNC adapters for every system I get which is not what I want to do anyways. The consoles will plug into my Extron Switcher and ill just have the respective cables sent to their monitors and inputs.

Edit: Also are there any specific requisites i need for my cables when running them to the Extron Switcher, Sync issues etc. RGB wise I will be running Saturn, Genesis ,N64,Super Nintendo, and maybe Dreamcast and later on Jamma Arcade and Turbo Graphx 16

Thanks guys :D
 
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daskrabs

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You're better off using SCART cables and a SCART switch. Much less hassle.
 
DZ

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What exactly is it that you're trying to do. Run consoles into a switch that feeds out to several different monitors?
 
DZ

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So, instead of making custom cables can't you just:
-Buy a scart to BNC and plug that into the input on you BNC switch
-Buy easy to find scart cables for your consoles.
-Run the console cables into a scart switch and plug the output into the Scart to BNC cable.
-Buy easy to find BNC cables and run those from the outputs of your BNC switch to different monitors.

Also, if you're just looking to run the same thing on multiple monitors at the same time, most RGB monitors have outputs on them that you can connect to another monitor via BNC.

First and foremost I'd recommend doing some more reading on things before you start dropping cash. Lots of people start chasing RGB dragons and pour money into it without having the slightest clue what they are doing. There is so much info out there nowadays.
 
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Geekman1222

Geekman1222

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DecepticonZero said:
So, instead of making custom cables can't you just:
-Buy a scart to BNC and plug that into the input on you BNC switch
-Buy easy to find scart cables for your consoles.
-Run the console cables into a scart switch and plug the output into the Scart to BNC cable.
-Buy easy to find BNC cables and run those from the outputs of your BNC switch to different monitors.

Also, if you're just looking to run the same thing on multiple monitors at the same time, most RGB monitors have outputs on them that you can connect to another monitor via BNC.

First and foremost I'd recommend doing some more reading on things before you start dropping cash. Lots of people start chasing RGB dragons and pour money into it without having the slightest clue what they are doing. There is so much info out there nowadays.
Click to expand...

I have done alot of research on the matter just not as much Technical like terminations, cable resistances, and if some systems need sync strippers iirc the Genesis needs a sync strike but i havent researched the topic in many many many months now. I basically got the Cross Point switch read the manual and built a wire diagram for my setup and kinda stopped there for a bit, but now i got a PVM with some trades what better time than now to pick up my research again and go further down this black hole. LOL

But yes your suggestion is actually a good middle grounds.

I was hoping that i could get multiple systems to output to multiple monitors simultaneously iirc from the manual you can do that but i couldnt test the idea yet if not thats fine i had planned around that too. The cross point was dirt cheap anyways. It could be annoying though to have to switch around 2 switchers at once but your idea is definitely cheaper.
 
DZ

DZ

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Geekman1222 said:
I have done alot of research on the matter just not as much Technical like terminations, cable resistances, and if some systems need sync strippers iirc the Genesis needs a sync strike but i havent researched the topic in many many many months now. I basically got the Cross Point switch read the manual and built a wire diagram for my setup and kinda stopped there for a bit, but now i got a PVM with some trades what better time than now to pick up my research again and go further down this black hole. LOL

But yes your suggestion is actually a good middle grounds.

I was hoping that i could get multiple systems to output to multiple monitors simultaneously iirc from the manual you can do that but i couldnt test the idea yet if not thats fine i had planned around that too. The cross point was dirt cheap anyways. It could be annoying though to have to switch around 2 switchers at once but your idea is definitely cheaper.
Click to expand...

On the PVM you have ,nothing should need a sync stripper. On the bigger PVM and XM 29 you will. Just by looking at the list of systems you want to hook up to it, you will need a Saturn Euro Scart cable wired for an ntsc system, an rgb modded N64, a 1 chip SNES with mods or a SNES Jr that's been rgb modded, and a scart cable for the Dreamcast as the PVM doesn't support 31khz from a VGA box.
 
GutsDozer

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Scart to BNC box is the way to go.
 
ChuChu Flamingo

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I know this isn't going to be helpful, but to me it seems easier to just go with regular old Scart cables + GSCART meme. There are other options too for SCART switchers, but none are as versatile or good as the GSCART.

With that setup you get 8 inputs, 2 outputs and the ability to add a matrix switcher for more outputs should you want it. Heck you could have one of the outputs go to your extron crosspoint should you want to setup 8-16 different displays instead of buying a different matrix switcher.

Here is a good video on your options

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=998tBzpJhVo

going the scart route also has the added benefit of using standardized scart cables instead of bnc should your extron puke. I am assuming you have to make those stupid phoenix connectors for audio too. You really need to make your own cables for an extron it to be worth it. With the consoles you listed that is like 49 cable connectors, even if you are a master cable manager it is still going to look like a giant fire daisy chained death trap like below.

giant daisy chained.jpg


For the price of those BNC cables you would be better off buying HD Retrovision cables, even though they don't have a cable for each system yet.

Here is a good guide from retrorgb on the extrons. A very good site if you want to see what each console needs in their scart cables and what your options are. Also good edumacation on RGB in general.

http://retrorgb.com/switches.html

So iirc Extron need CSYNC and the output is TTL. Most consumer devices use 75 ohm as a standard and will need to be attenuated (unless you're using a professional monitor that requirs TTL).

Most consoles output Csync, but for the ones that don't most people grab Luma or Composite Video and use a sync stripper should they need CSYNC. PS1/PS2 is a good example of a system not having CSYNC natively, but can be modded to restore it. Or you can be lazy and just use a sync stripper. Keep in mind if you do use a sync stripper It will output TTL CYSYNC unless attenuated, but also has the downside of delaying the sync resulting in a shift of 5 pixels to the left iirc. What is cool about the Gscart lite is that it has a built in sync stripper that can be flicked on or not.

You won't need a 1 chip SNES/modded mini to use it on a Extron, 2 chip outputs CSYNC as well. The only exception is a SNES 1chip-03 and SNES mini, both which can be modded/have csync restored for rgb goodness.

for sega saturn scart cables. Models 2's sometimes need sometimes need a 470 ohm resistor and 220uF cap if using csync since sega didn't put them inside the console on some revisions.

http://retrorgb.com/saturn.html

Like DeceptionZero stated, you really need to do your research before you dive in head first. I hope this helps you, if you have any other questions lmk just giving my 2cents on it.

/wall of text over
 
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Geekman1222

Geekman1222

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ChuChu Flamingo said:
I know this isn't going to be helpful, but to me it seems easier to just go with regular old Scart cables + GSCART meme. There are other options too for SCART switchers, but none are as versatile or good as the GSCART.

With that setup you get 8 inputs, 2 outputs and the ability to add a matrix switcher for more outputs should you want it. Heck you could have one of the outputs go to your extron crosspoint should you want to setup 8-16 different displays instead of buying a different matrix switcher.

Here is a good video on your options

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=998tBzpJhVo

going the scart route also has the added benefit of using standardized scart cables instead of bnc should your extron puke. I am assuming you have to make those stupid phoenix connectors for audio too. You really need to make your own cables for an extron it to be worth it. With the consoles you listed that is like 49 cable connectors, even if you are a master cable manager it is still going to look like a giant fire daisy chained death trap like below.

View attachment 47301


For the price of those BNC cables you would be better off buying HD Retrovision cables, even though they don't have a cable for each system yet.

Here is a good guide from retrorgb on the extrons. A very good site if you want to see what each console needs in their scart cables and what your options are. Also good edumacation on RGB in general.

http://retrorgb.com/switches.html

So iirc Extron need CSYNC and the output is TTL. Most consumer devices use 75 ohm as a standard and will need to be attenuated (unless you're using a professional monitor that requirs TTL).

Most consoles output Csync, but for the ones that don't most people grab Luma or Composite Video and use a sync stripper should they need CSYNC. PS1/PS2 is a good example of a system not having CSYNC natively, but can be modded to restore it. Or you can be lazy and just use a sync stripper. Keep in mind if you do use a sync stripper It will output TTL CYSYNC unless attenuated, but also has the downside of delaying the sync resulting in a shift of 5 pixels to the left iirc. What is cool about the Gscart lite is that it has a built in sync stripper that can be flicked on or not.

You won't need a 1 chip SNES/modded mini to use it on a Extron, 2 chip outputs CSYNC as well. The only exception is a SNES 1chip-03 and SNES mini, both which can be modded/have csync restored for rgb goodness.

for sega saturn scart cables. Models 2's sometimes need sometimes need a 470 ohm resistor and 220uF cap if using csync since sega didn't put them inside the console on some revisions.

http://retrorgb.com/saturn.html

Like DeceptionZero stated, you really need to do your research before you dive in head first. I hope this helps you, if you have any other questions lmk just giving my 2cents on it.

/wall of text over
Click to expand...

Yeah i know of RetroRgb's site its amazing i spent weeks and weeks just diving through and soaking things up. Their youtube videos are also very good. At this point in time Im more just picking back up my interest and research where it kind of was last time so your "wall of text" is very useful, i did remember reading something about the TTL compatibility and such. The operations manual for the cross point 8x8 was something i thumbed through before i picked it up too. I just didnt realize the cost involved on the cabling which was a major over look.

I think when it comes down to it I just dont want to get up and tunnel my way behind everything to switch what TV i might want a system to be displayed on. And yes those stupid Phoenix connectors are retadedly expensive. I pondered just modding RCA jacks into the back of the Extron. Theres also like some audio line ground balancing crap that the manual mentioned iirc on the audio in's and outs. I know a buddy a few towns over that has like 4 BVM's with a full Extron Switcher setup using bnc's. Need to go over to his place and have him show me how he has it setup and explain it so I can get an even better in person example of how its all setup for him and working.

I literally picked up the Extron at stupid cheap prices a long time ago so if i need to i can get rid of it I can. The reason im asking about cables and such isnt just so i can run out and grab them ASAP im just gathering some info on if theres other options atm.

That being said like i have said guys all the suggestions on Gscart (which i have heard of, hadnt read up on it in detail yet though) are very good and I welcome the suggestions it helps me make a good decision before i spend a crap load on stuff and find out i didnt need it ;P

Keep it coming and thank you

PS (maybe i should have renamed this thread to, RGB cables and switcher, what do) LOL

Edit: another plus i thought about the Extron Crosspoints was switching Component/svideo/or composite (if i had too) my old diagrams would switch Component in my setup too though

Peace
 
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ChuChu Flamingo

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My favorite thing about the Gscart is that it automatically switches. Only thing I need now is a Gcomps for my setup and to transfer three more consoles over to RGB. My next to do list is get AV Famicom/Toploader RGB modded. The other two are PC engine and Model 2 Genesis+cd. They both look pretty damn good with S-video. The genesis was S-video modded and region modded 50/60hz by shadowkn.

Sometime down the road when the genesis triple bypass (RGB and Mega Amp all in one) comes out I'll probably mod my Genesis Model 1. The model one looks a lot cooler than model 2 imo.

N64 would be cool to mod for RGB, but S-video is good enough. If they ever release a deblur feature for RGB and not HDMI I might consider it. Same with the Neo Geo AES bypass voultar is working on.
 
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RAZO

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ChuChu Flamingo said:
I know this isn't going to be helpful, but to me it seems easier to just go with regular old Scart cables + GSCART meme. There are other options too for SCART switchers, but none are as versatile or good as the GSCART.

With that setup you get 8 inputs, 2 outputs and the ability to add a matrix switcher for more outputs should you want it. Heck you could have one of the outputs go to your extron crosspoint should you want to setup 8-16 different displays instead of buying a different matrix switcher.

Here is a good video on your options

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=998tBzpJhVo

going the scart route also has the added benefit of using standardized scart cables instead of bnc should your extron puke. I am assuming you have to make those stupid phoenix connectors for audio too. You really need to make your own cables for an extron it to be worth it. With the consoles you listed that is like 49 cable connectors, even if you are a master cable manager it is still going to look like a giant fire daisy chained death trap like below.

View attachment 47301


For the price of those BNC cables you would be better off buying HD Retrovision cables, even though they don't have a cable for each system yet.

Here is a good guide from retrorgb on the extrons. A very good site if you want to see what each console needs in their scart cables and what your options are. Also good edumacation on RGB in general.

http://retrorgb.com/switches.html

So iirc Extron need CSYNC and the output is TTL. Most consumer devices use 75 ohm as a standard and will need to be attenuated (unless you're using a professional monitor that requirs TTL).

Most consoles output Csync, but for the ones that don't most people grab Luma or Composite Video and use a sync stripper should they need CSYNC. PS1/PS2 is a good example of a system not having CSYNC natively, but can be modded to restore it. Or you can be lazy and just use a sync stripper. Keep in mind if you do use a sync stripper It will output TTL CYSYNC unless attenuated, but also has the downside of delaying the sync resulting in a shift of 5 pixels to the left iirc. What is cool about the Gscart lite is that it has a built in sync stripper that can be flicked on or not.

You won't need a 1 chip SNES/modded mini to use it on a Extron, 2 chip outputs CSYNC as well. The only exception is a SNES 1chip-03 and SNES mini, both which can be modded/have csync restored for rgb goodness.

for sega saturn scart cables. Models 2's sometimes need sometimes need a 470 ohm resistor and 220uF cap if using csync since sega didn't put them inside the console on some revisions.

http://retrorgb.com/saturn.html

Like DeceptionZero stated, you really need to do your research before you dive in head first. I hope this helps you, if you have any other questions lmk just giving my 2cents on it.

/wall of text over
Click to expand...

All those wires, I could never deal with that. This is why I only plug in one or two consoles at a time. Even if the wires were out of sight, it would still bother me that behind my furniture there is a rats nest of wires.
 
Geekman1222

Geekman1222

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Neodogg said:
I have an extra Saturn scart cable, I think.
Click to expand...

I might take you up on your offer in time NeoDogg, granted you still have it by the time im planned out and ready, saturn was actually the first system i was going to get cords for less i buy all my cables for the systems that are ready for RGB :P
 
D

Dochartaigh

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Geekman1222 has specifically said he wants to switch multiple consoles to multiple monitors...so there's really no other good solid choice besides the Extron Crosspoint he already owns. I don't understand why so many people are suggesting the gscart - those are literally for super-linear setups with only a single image up on screen at a time, and where you have EVERY system converted to RGB. I would rather use the $50 Bandridge and save a ton of money at that point...

When you want a MUCH more versatile setup you go to the Extron Crosspoint. It can take RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, Composite, any flavor of Component, S-Video, etc. etc. etc. AND go to multiple monitors at once, or run 6x systems on 6x monitors at the same time or whatever craziness you like - all with super easy to use presets as well. I even have transcoders running in and out of mine so I can turn a 480p signal to a 480i for my SD monitors, convert RGBS to YPbPr for my consumer TV's, and throw any type of signal out to any output - all sorts of cool shit like that. Again, presets are also a life saver. I figure out how to make a complicated setup to multiple monitors then save it with a keypress to recall later.

The price between these two types of setups isn't even that far off. Say you have 8x video game consoles, and 2x PVM's. Let's price out the Gscart and the Extron Crosspoint. I'm not counting SCART cables coming off your consoles since both need that. Not counting cables running to your 2x PVM's either (unless you need an adapter). Not counting shipping.

You want to rock the gscart:
$180 for the gscartsw_lite, you need 2x $26.50 SCART to BNC adapters for it's mere 2x outputs (to be able to plug them into a PVM/BVM) = $233

Extron Crosspoint 8x4 (inputs/outputs) with audio for $48 shipped on eBay right now (or $52 for 8x8, 12x8 $55). 8x SCART to BNC breakouts for your consoles @ $26.50/each, 10x Phoenix adapters $4.50, 8x Female RCA sets $5 = $270

(and if you can't figure out how to make Phoenix audio connectors, you shouldn't be driving a car or using a kitchen stove unsupervised either so this is a moot point they're SO easy to make - literally need a screwdriver and a wire stripper and 2 minutes each...)

Anyway, only negatives are more wires (which there's really the same amount of wires going to the Gscart - it's just it's using the smaller SCART head instead of individual break-out wires the Extron uses), and if your monitor can't take TTL you'll need to add a $0.20 resistor, or a sync stripper on some rare systems to feed into the Crosspoint (only needed those for PS1/PS2 out of all my systems). Besides that you get SO much more from the Crosspoint it's not even funny.
 
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Geekman1222

Geekman1222

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Dochartaigh said:
Geekman1222 has specifically said he wants to switch multiple consoles to multiple monitors...so there's really no other good solid choice besides the Extron Crosspoint he already owns. I don't understand why so many people are suggesting the gscart - those are literally for super-linear setups with only a single image up on screen at a time, and where you have EVERY system converted to RGB. I would rather use the $50 Bandridge and save a ton of money at that point...

When you want a MUCH more versatile setup you go to the Extron Crosspoint. It can take RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, Composite, any flavor of Component, S-Video, etc. etc. etc. AND go to multiple monitors at once, or run 6x systems on 6x monitors at the same time or whatever craziness you like - all with super easy to use presets as well. I even have transcoders running in and out of mine so I can turn a 480p signal to a 480i for my SD monitors, convert RGBS to YPbPr for my consumer TV's, and throw any type of signal out to any output - all sorts of cool shit like that. Again, presets are also a life saver. I figure out how to make a complicated setup to multiple monitors then save it with a keypress to recall later.

The price between these two types of setups isn't even that far off. Say you have 8x video game consoles, and 2x PVM's. Let's price out the Gscart and the Extron Crosspoint. I'm not counting SCART cables coming off your consoles since both need that. Not counting cables running to your 2x PVM's either (unless you need an adapter). Not counting shipping.

You want to rock the gscart:
$180 for the gscartsw_lite, you need 2x $26.50 SCART to BNC adapters for it's mere 2x outputs (to be able to plug them into a PVM/BVM) = $233

Extron Crosspoint 8x4 (inputs/outputs) with audio for $48 shipped on eBay right now (or $52 for 8x8, 12x8 $55). 8x SCART to BNC breakouts for your consoles @ $26.50/each, 10x Phoenix adapters $4.50, 8x Female RCA sets $5 = $270

(and if you can't figure out how to make Phoenix audio connectors, you shouldn't be driving a car or using a kitchen stove unsupervised either so this is a moot point they're SO easy to make - literally need a screwdriver and a wire stripper and 2 minutes each...)

Anyway, only negatives are more wires (which there's really the same amount of wires going to the Gscart - it's just it's using the smaller SCART head instead of individual break-out wires the Extron uses), and if your monitor can't take TTL you'll need to add a $0.20 resistor, or a sync stripper on some rare systems to feed into the Crosspoint (only needed those for PS1/PS2 out of all my systems). Besides that you get SO much more from the Crosspoint it's not even funny.
Click to expand...

This is the exact point I have been trying to make my self really. I just want one unit that practically does anything i could want. Component RGB and Svideo are two things I already planned and months old block diagrams to use. I bought an 8x8 almost a year and a half ago for about 25$ shipped.

Anyways, Ill be real here I really dont want to got the Gscart route. Nothing against it looks wonderfully built but its just not what I want. I guess Im just crazy or something but I had it planned like this along time ago and Im gonna keep at what i want.

I thumbed through the Cross point manual i had again and i just cant get rid of it the thing is a monster in terms of features and capabilities its not even funny.

I guess my real question now is Straight Console to BNC
or Console to Scart using a BNC adapter
 
D

Dochartaigh

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Geekman1222 said:
I guess my real question now is Straight Console to BNC
or Console to Scart using a BNC adapter
Click to expand...
If my memory serves a SCART cable is maybe $23 at Retro-Access or the UK site (plus the SCART to BNC breakout for $27-35). A console-direct-to-BNC is around $60, right?...basically it's so much because the SCART head gives the cable builder the room to put all the resistors and such into, so building a straight-to-BNC cable is more time consuming for them (and not ideal to hide all those parts) so they cost more. It's pretty much a wash between the two price wise, and I'm not even sure that they even make straight-to-BNC RGB cables for all systems...

I went to SCART because it's industry standard for retro gaming, and I started off with a simple Bandridge SCART switcher myself so I didn't have a choice. Don't know if I would have done it differently had I known I would have eventually gotten a Crosspoint. If you have upscalers like the OSSC or Framemeister in another room (where your flatscreen is for example), you'll need SCART to plug into them (or an adapter to get your straight-to-BNC cable back to SCART again). My Shinybow SB-2840 RGB to YPbPr adapter for example also has a SCART socket, so I needed another ~$30 BNC to SCART cable off my Extron to be able to plug into that....can't really win on either side, you'll need some of each type in the end no matter what I think.








Wachenroder said:
to think i was actually considering building a a setup like this like this......

i could totally get that looking a bit neater but even so, just that shear amount of R G B S lines makes me thank heavens we the SCART standard.
Click to expand...

I'm just making sure you understand that maybe a foot back from the Extron Crosspoint ALL those wires turn into a simple and 'streamlined' bundle of 8x individual cables (EXACTLY like the 8x SCART cables running to the Gscart), and the same goes for the output side. The only difference is where it connects to the switch itself (which is usually hidden from view - hopefully like all the other wires running to/from everything else in your setup).

...And that RGB BNC connectors were the industry standard for broadcast for a super long time because of their durability and ability to be ran for long distances (amongst other things I'm sure I'm not aware ;) ...I'm still failing to see the problem with either way of doing this (besides the major limitations any of switchers like the Gscart when compared to a Crosspoint).
 
Geekman1222

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Yep its decided ill probably use simple SCART console cables then a BNC adapter because flexablity, down the road who knows what will happen. Either way Im about to start selling a bunch of console mods to get a bit of cash into my hobby funds and i think i know what some of it will be going to. :D

Edit, i want to thank everyone again for their continued inputs it means alot the cabling decisions are a big deal and i think this could be helpful to anyone weighing their options out in the future too!
 
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Wachenroder

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Dochartaigh said:
I'm just making sure you understand that maybe a foot back from the Extron Crosspoint ALL those wires turn into a simple and 'streamlined' bundle of 8x individual cables (EXACTLY like the 8x SCART cables running to the Gscart), and the same goes for the output side. The only difference is where it connects to the switch itself (which is usually hidden from view - hopefully like all the other wires running to/from everything else in your setup).

...And that RGB BNC connectors were the industry standard for broadcast for a super long time because of their durability and ability to be ran for long distances (amongst other things I'm sure I'm not aware ;) ...I'm still failing to see the problem with either way of doing this (besides the major limitations any of switchers like the Gscart when compared to a Crosspoint).
Click to expand...

i know

its just all those BNC lines is just too much for me.

there is only so much you can do when youre juggling that many lines. if i went that route id have to tie each set together so each cable would be more easily recognized at a glance. its a good way to go if you have crazy big setup but i dont think i'll ever have so many consoles that would force to move up to that.
 
D

Dochartaigh

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Wachenroder said:
i know

its just all those BNC lines is just too much for me.

there is only so much you can do when youre juggling that many lines. if i went that route id have to tie each set together so each cable would be more easily recognized at a glance. its a good way to go if you have crazy big setup but i dont think i'll ever have so many consoles that would force to move up to that.
Click to expand...

Cue in label maker and black sharpie lol - I totally label everything on either end to keep it all organized - and with a 500 qt. assortment of zip ties and velcro tiebacks, mine doesn't look *too* messy (ok, it's still messy as shit, but manageable at least - I'm using a friggin server rack for mine it's that many wires - and I only run 7 systems!). The hardest part is actually fitting your hands in to twist the BNC's on/off when there's others to the left, right, top, and bottom of it. Kills my hands every time.

...and my dumbass just ordered a 16x16 larger Extron Crosspoint (I was running out of outputs when I'm running all these transcoders back into the Crosspoint).
 
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