Terraonion New Product(s) discussion thread

It has to be profitable which means it must appeal to those outside the niche yet its not an FPGA based console copy and it might be arcade related. This is a hard one.

lachlan said:

...and it might be arcade related.

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This just has to be arcade related. It's the only blank and interesting area for creating hardware. MAME is bound to a capable PC and is neither plug-and-play, nor consumer friendly. But unfortunately, 'arcade' is not an entity, it's a variety of miscellaneous system boards, awry frequencies and diversified resolutions. God bless this mess, but it's tough to simplify for a computer illiterate.

oliverclaude said:

This just has to be arcade related. It's the only blank and interesting area for creating hardware. MAME is bound to a capable PC and is neither plug-and-play, nor consumer friendly. But unfortunately, 'arcade' is not an entity, it's a variety of miscellaneous system boards, awry frequencies and diversified resolutions. God bless this mess, but it's tough to simplify for a computer illiterate.

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What about a multi game board (like pandora) that actually fucking plays games properly with a native JAMMA connector? Show me one of those that isn't a jpac/pc setup for a reasonable price and I'm wet all over.

ekorz said:

Multi carts: cps1, system16, m92

You want to do FPGA? How about something that plays all the PlayStation-based arcade hardware. Boom:

Capcom Sony ZN-1
Capcom Sony ZN-2
Konami Bemani Karaoke
Konami Bemani System 573 Analog
Konami Bemani System 573 Digital
Konami Bemani Twinkle
Konami GQ System
Konami GV System / Baby Phoenix
Konami System 573
Konami System 573 Satellite Terminal
Namco System 10
Namco System 11
Namco System 12
Taito FX-1A System
Taito FX-1B System
Taito G-NET System
...and (fuck it) primal rage 2

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+1 on that.

About System16, I went the EPROMs + Programmer way, spent ~250€ total + 90€ for a Tetris with 5704 Rom board which is universal and can run any game.
Sure, you have to swap the chips everytime you want to change the game, but it's no deal breaker for me.

Shipwreck_00 said:

Possibly a NGPC adapter for the AES????

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already exist (made by furrtek).

I would have really loved a pgm multi, but it doesn't fit in the 5+ game system xD
I can't figure for now what kind of project would fill a bigger gap than neosd did.
Really curious about your next announcement…

lachlan said:

What about a multi game board (like pandora) that actually fucking plays games properly with a native JAMMA connector? Show me one of those that isn't a jpac/pc setup for a reasonable price and I'm wet all over.

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I would be down for this. I've tried so many different multi boards in the past and they are all crap. The Pandors is probably the best one and thats not saying much. A multi board that runs roms at the correct frame rate and correct sound without sticking a computer in your cabinet. I guess this is easier said than done but I think eventually it will happen.

mathieu4d said:

already exist (made by furrtek).

I would have really loved a pgm multi, but it doesn't fit in the 5+ game system xD
I can't figure for now what kind of project would fill a bigger gap than neosd did.
Really curious about your next announcement…

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You're thinking of the MVS adapter, not a Neo Geo Pocket adapter for the AES.

A CPS 1 adapter for the MVS or AES - now that appeals to me lol. Just replicate CPS 1 on FPGA, and have some interface to the video audio and controller inputs. I don't think that would be possible though due to the way the neo geo handles graphics. Not sure its possible to just write to the screen in the way that would be required for anything to pass video output to the Neo Geo. Maybe it could be fooled by drawing to the ROM area where tiles are normally located or something like that. Then again all you're doing in either example is using the Neo Geo controller controller video and sound, so probably pointless. I did think about doing something similar for the Atari Lynx running 2600 games but the cart throughput isn't fast enough. Easier in that instance to recompile the games with some changes for IO and graphics.

ekorz said:

You want to do FPGA? How about something that plays all the PlayStation-based arcade hardware.

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I wonder if it would be at all possible to use one of the PlayStation boards, like ZN2, and use it as a universal base for an FPGA B Board that could run as many PlayStation hardware based games as possible. Given the number of PlayStation based boards and games, this would make quite a multi. The compatibility issues, though.

The way I'm imagining this is, you take the most powerful and "complete" PlayStation A board out there, and get everything else to run on it. Easier said than done, I'm sure, but given the shared architecture, would it even be possible to take Namco's System 12, and make it run not only System 11 titles, but G.Net, ZN1 and 2, and so on.

Morden said:

I wonder if it would be at all possible to use one of the PlayStation boards, like ZN2, and use it as a universal base for an FPGA B Board that could run as many PlayStation hardware based games as possible. Given the number of PlayStation based boards and games, this would make quite a multi. The compatibility issues, though.

The way I'm imagining this is, you take the most powerful and "complete" PlayStation A board out there, and get everything else to run on it. Easier said than done, I'm sure, but given the shared architecture, would it even be possible to take Namco's System 12, and make it run not only System 11 titles, but G.Net, ZN1 and 2, and so on.

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I'd be up for that too, real hardware ftw. But I thought fpga might make it easier since the hardware is a bit all over the place. It mayyyy just be ONE "core" to get right, though, that enables most of those systems.

I'm all for Niko's idea of an FPGA pandora but that means dozens or hundreds of cores to develop.

ekorz said:

I'm all for Niko's idea of an FPGA pandora but that means dozens or hundreds of cores to develop.

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Something like this would have to be a community project, like MAME. Open source, with people adding to it. There's no way one team could do all that work. A base FPGA unit, and cores developed by willing contributors. I know there are at least two independent FPGA SNES projects, which aren't related to Super NT. It seems like a waste of resources to have people doing this kind of work from scratch each time someone feels like developing a SNES clone in FPGA. Same with arcade hardware.

GadgetUK said:

You're thinking of the MVS adapter, not a Neo Geo Pocket adapter for the AES.

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I am not mistaken ;-)
Not possible to play at 2, no sound, and if i remember correctly only b&w games. But it works.
Already played with it. No clue on how many did furrtek actually do.
His mvs to aes was produced in a larger scale i suppose.

Back to the subject, something that would "normalize" arcade video signal so there is no need to toy with the geometry over and over again would be great… but not sure it fits the prerequisites of profitability :/

When I first saw pandora and well it did games I was totally underwelmed. I just though to myself how can anyone compare what that puts out as the same as the original arcade games.... Its just so dam poor. The problem here is these FPGA's are just no where near fast enough to allow emulation accurately enough to let games really play and look the same as the originals.

When you compare neogeo for example in kawaks, FBA and MAME you can instalty see how much more powerfull machine you need to get MAME doing NeoGeo at full speed compared to the others. In the same tolken MAME is by far the most accurate NeoGeo emulator out there. But even here anyone with a good eye could easily tell the difference between a NeoGeo and MAME emulation if all they could see was a video of both. For me it does not matter how good emulation is of an arcade system, its never going to be completely accurate to a level that its not noticeable when doing a complete system.

On the other side though there could be a place where FPGA emulation is helpfull. For example in playing non Qsound CPS1 games on CPS2 hardware... Because CPS2 does not have CPS1 legacy sound chips you could attach a device to the edge connector of a CPS2 'b' board and patch games to pass sound codes over that to a device emulating z80 and CPS1 sound that then outputs outputs to RCA jacks. Don't get me wrong its a little more complex than just doing that to get CPS1 games working on CPS2 hardware but it is possible.

Just one thing about FPGA system repros: if you're going to do, let's say, a CPS1/2 FPGA system, then PLEASE make two separate boards.

The motherboard with the FPGA which emulates the system and the Rom Board which can be used on the real CPS1/2 motherboard.

This way people can enjoy the multi with either your emulated FPGA system or, if they have one, real hardware.

The ROM is just... ROM. There is no FPGA rom board. Games are loaded from an Sd card slot.

donluca said:

The motherboard with the FPGA which emulates the system and the Rom Board which can be used on the real CPS1/2 motherboard.

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A ROM board as a storage medium that could be used with both CPS1 and CPS2 A boards? How would that even work?

Also, some people have mentioned Atomiswave flash device and a Naomi flash device. While a flash devices for both of these would certainly be more convenient if done properly, especially with an on-screen menu, I feel that netbooting makes them redundant. Pi with the Adafruit screen is pretty much the perfect solution, and you don't even need an Atomiswave, since you can netboot everything on a Naomi. Naomi can also power the Pi straight from the filterboard. What more do we need? This is more convenient than messing around with jumpers on Darksoft's STV cartridge.

Morden said:

Also, some people have mentioned Atomiswave flash device and a Naomi flash device. While a flash devices for both of these would certainly be more convenient if done properly, especially with an on-screen menu, I feel that netbooting makes them redundant. Pi with the Adafruit screen is pretty much the perfect solution, and you don't even need an Atomiswave, since you can netboot everything on a Naomi. Naomi can also power the Pi straight from the filterboard. What more do we need?

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While I do agree, what if there was a complete Net Dimm replacement option that acted like a flash cart and loaded the games faster...?

This is more convenient than messing around with jumpers on Darksoft's STV cartridge.

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If you're not aware, someone figured out a Pi-based selector option to go with the Darksoft ST-V multi so that it works like the more recent CPS2 and F3 multi.

i just got a 21 minute video of the new system...

...I have always stated... takes a lot to impress me... mainly because i'm drunk most of the time...

xROTx

PS. Consider me... impressed...

Rot said:

i just got a 21 minute video of the new system...

...I have always stated... takes a lot to impress me... mainly because i'm drunk most of the time...

xROTx

PS. Consider me... impressed...

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Links or it didnt happen....

kthnx

Morden said:

A ROM board as a storage medium that could be used with both CPS1 and CPS2 A boards? How would that even work?

Also, some people have mentioned Atomiswave flash device and a Naomi flash device. While a flash devices for both of these would certainly be more convenient if done properly, especially with an on-screen menu, I feel that netbooting makes them redundant. Pi with the Adafruit screen is pretty much the perfect solution, and you don't even need an Atomiswave, since you can netboot everything on a Naomi. Naomi can also power the Pi straight from the filterboard. What more do we need? This is more convenient than messing around with jumpers on Darksoft's STV cartridge.

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Well then just emulate everything on a pc and close the thread.

Rather than dis others suggestions, be more passionate about what you'd like.

Rot said:

i just got a 21 minute video of the new system...

...I have always stated... takes a lot to impress me... mainly because i'm drunk most of the time...

xROTx

PS. Consider me... impressed...

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what a tease

Rot said:

i just got a 21 minute video...

...I have always stated... takes a lot to impress me... mainly because i'm drunk most of the time...

xROTx

PS. Consider me... impressed...

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yr welcome dood

neo-geo.com sex tapes FTW

Rot said:

i just got a 21 minute video of the new system...

...I have always stated... takes a lot to impress me... mainly because i'm drunk most of the time...

xROTx

PS. Consider me... impressed...

Click to expand...

Neosd has invented a high quality single malt scotch that will retail for $9.99

Niko said:

Links or it didnt happen....

kthnx

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But But... I have it on my whatsapp...

heihachi said:

what a tease

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...I wear Hot Pink...

mjmjr25 said:

yr welcome dood

Spoiler:

i'm surprised she let me send it

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...Alex is a girlie! Z'OMG... nerds UNITE in hitting on her...

CORY said:

neo-geo.com sex tapes FTW

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...Sylvie & Xorthen.... I N . . . L U V . . .

theMot said:

Neosd has invented a high quality single malt scotch that will retail for $9.99

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I wish...

xROTx

PS. Neosd sure does suck at gaming... 21 minutes of getting his ass beat by the cpu...

EDIT. I also suck at gaming... but the difference is... I run ma' genitals on the games to show them who's boss...

Its gonna be a long ass 4 weeks....