Homeless = Criminal?

2D_Master said:

Anybody ever try to find a job after being homeless for awhile? It's hard, people treat you like scum and won't even give you a chance. Job applications ask for all sorts of things these days, work history, background, address, phone number --- if one of those presents a problem, you're fucked. A lot of homeless people have criminal records, and even if they want to change and get a decent job, it's hard to get one if they've even made one mistake in their lives. It's hard to get out from the gutter, because most people think you belong there.

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Well see, therein lies the problem, these people have fucked up in the past and it's coming back to haunt them. I'm not trying to sound like an asshole, but how hard is it to exercise proper judgement and to stay out of trouble? I'm 32 and the worst trouble I've been in with the law is a fix-it ticket for a busted tail light. Self-inflicted problems.

Naiera said:

I guess homeless 'murrcans are different from homeless people elsewhere in the world.

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I can tell you right now, Americans have a bad attitude. It's a sickness rotting our country from the inside.

P.S.- I didn't know you spoke on behalf of the whole world.

GT40PWR said:

Never received a handout in life, I most certainly don't give handouts to anyone. Period!
I've been laid off 3 times in my life, and I quickly applied for new employment. You either adapt and overcome the hurdles in life, or you beg for handouts from others. Nothing in life is FREE! There are many choices in life, and everyone makes their own choices.

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All fair points, but being laid off from work isn't exactly comparable with, for instance, schizophrenia.

Looking out for the disabled is what separates us from other animals. And China.

Sex Lord Ki_atsushi said:

I can tell you right now, Americans have a bad attitude. It's a sickness rotting our country from the inside.

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And this is due in a large part, that our society as a whole caters to the lazy. One only needs to read the following article to get an eye opening of just how lazy Americans have become, or better yet, been allowed to become.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ates-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-job/

It's absolutely sickening to the read that article. While people struggle to make ends meet, the lazy ass fucktards of American society get tax free handouts at the expense of the hard working tax payers.
And because our society and Government caters to this crap, there is no motivation to get better jobs or do anything for themselves. And why should they?
Instead, the (US Government) is too fucking busy paying attention to everyone else problem around the world. This shit makes my blood boil!!

I wonder how much a persons socioeconomic status affects their perspective of the homeless?

GT40PWR said:

And this is due in a large part, that our society as a whole caters to the lazy. One only needs to read the following article to get an eye opening of just how lazy Americans have become, or better yet, been allowed to become.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ates-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-job/

It's absolutely sickening to the read that article. While people struggle to make ends meet, the lazy ass fucktards of American society get tax free handouts at the expense of the hard working tax payers.
And because our society and Government caters to this crap, there is no motivation to get better jobs or do anything for themselves. And why should they?
Instead, the (US Government) is too fucking busy paying attention to everyone else problem around the world. This shit makes my blood boil!!

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It works both ways though, if you earn over $400k a year you have to give the taxman 40% of it to cover off the lower, subsidised tax rates of the lower and middle income earners.

Never hear of anyone complaining about the unfairness of that.

Who would be in favour of making it an entirely fair and equal flat tax rate of, say 30% on everything earned? No one who earns less than $200k, that's for sure, they love their handouts from the rich too much.

Neo Ash said:

I wonder how much a persons socioeconomic status affects their perspective of the homeless?

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I think that people who have had a taste of hard times in their lives are a little more aware of the fact that people don't begin the race at the same starting point. Mental disorders, being born into poverty, having abusive parents, being molested, having physical disabilities, being brought up by drug addicts all have life long effects. Some have the strength to overcome growing up in the ghetto/barrio/trailer park , the weak ones ; nobody gives a care about them.

I've got vagrants living in the abandoned place just past my backyard. Kind of unsettling, but I'm not going to call the cops or anything. They don't usually make it up this far as the big homeless community is about half a mile away.

2D_Master said:

Anybody ever try to find a job after being homeless for awhile? It's hard, people treat you like scum and won't even give you a chance. Job applications ask for all sorts of things these days, work history, background, address, phone number --- if one of those presents a problem, you're fucked.

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Most homeless people can get hooked up with a number and an address to put on job applications. They just have to check on them.

GT40PWR said:

And this is due in a large part, that our society as a whole caters to the lazy. One only needs to read the following article to get an eye opening of just how lazy Americans have become, or better yet, been allowed to become.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ates-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-job/

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Guess what genius, you can't get welfare unless you get a minimum wage job. And in my experience, getting welfare is more work than getting a job.

... this is gonna get ugly...

As someone who actually knows some homeless people, and has deeply explored the subject for many years- most people have no idea what being homeless is like, or why people are homeless.

People who think the homeless are just lazy are assholes.

Yes, many homeless people are addicts and/or suffer from mental disorders.

There are good, kind homeless people out there.

The difference between life on the streets and jail, which I am familiar with- is pretty huge.

Jail sucks, the guards and cops suck.

The police have more than 'a few bad apples' and indeed the job of police officer attracts sociopaths and psychotics.

The police murder black people all the time and get away with it.

This is real, and I know it for a fact.

No one wants to deal with this because the police are supposed to be heroes or at least a little like fire fighters.

There are cops out there that are so fucking evil and criminal it's very much the stuff of the movies.

The cops will profile and target homeless black men if they have been convicted of any sort of 'violent' charge.

They confront these profiled black homeless men with their guns drawn, just out of their cars.

Murders happen.

It is completely fucked up bullshit.

Take it these lawmakers haven't seen Rambo first blood

Most homeless people suffer from severe mental disorders. Mostly schizophrenia.

And yeah, most schizophrenias turn to major drug and alcoholism.

From a purely economic viewpoint, it's cheaper to get them mental help than to pay cops to arrest them, then the cost of housing them in jail.

mr_b said:

There's a direct correlation between increased crime rates and homeless people as a majority of them have mental disabilities. When national and state funded mental institutions declined the inmate and homeless number rose.

There have been studies showing that a high percentage of criminals have mentally ill. Now the question that raises is if there were mental institutions readily available would those prisoners been diagnosed and in hospitals prior to committing their crimes?

I think it would!

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I'm sure you're quite the mental health expert. Go play Killer Instinct.

Abasuto said:

Most homeless people suffer from severe mental disorders. Mostly schizophrenia.

And yeah, most schizophrenias turn to major drug and alcoholism.

From a purely economic viewpoint, it's cheaper to get them mental help than to pay cops to arrest them, then the cost of housing them in jail.

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Totally agree. Most of the homeless I've encountered have mental health disorders. The hard part is getting them mental health services outside of jail. Most of them receive mental health care while in jail and while on their medications, they become lucid and clear thinking. Only problem is, once released from custody, they go back to old habits, quit taking their medications and the cycle begins anew for them.

A lot of the homeless I've spoken too, prefer to live the lifestyle they are in. Many receive government assistance (Social Security payments for their disability and free housing in group homes) but prefer the freedom of life on the streets.

Neobuyer is right, there are many good kind homeless people out there, but those aren't the ones the laws are designed to impact.

It's the homeless people who show no regard for others, act out violently and commit crimes that are the focus of these laws. Recently there was a news story where a woman was stabbed by a homeless guy for taking his picture (In Hollywood, where a lot of homeless hang out and where a lot of tourists visit). The laws are designed so the police have some way of removing the violent and unstable homeless before these types of crimes/events happen.

Combating homelessness is not just a societal issue, but also an issue of safety. I used to work in an area where there were a lot of homeless, some were harmless, some were downright scary. There's no easy solution to the problem, but if you ever have a homeless guy hanging around in the alley/street where your kids play, you'll be thankful the cops have some recourse to remove him.

I know there is a lot of cop hate around here, maybe some of you guys have had negative experiences, but remember, just as not all homeless are angry, homicidal maniacs, neither are all cops.

mr_b said:

There's a direct correlation between increased crime rates and homeless people as a majority of them have mental disabilities. When national and state funded mental institutions declined the inmate and homeless number rose.

There have been studies showing that a high percentage of criminals have mentally ill. Now the question that raises is if there were mental institutions readily available would those prisoners been diagnosed and in hospitals prior to committing their crimes?

I think it would!

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You seem to grossly over estimate the amount of individuals that would qualify for inpatient treatment.

A good number of them are veterans who couldn't readapt to civilian life. They have homes but they're not wanted there.

GT40PWR said:

And this is due in a large part, that our society as a whole caters to the lazy. One only needs to read the following article to get an eye opening of just how lazy Americans have become, or better yet, been allowed to become.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ates-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-job/

It's absolutely sickening to the read that article. While people struggle to make ends meet, the lazy ass fucktards of American society get tax free handouts at the expense of the hard working tax payers.
And because our society and Government caters to this crap, there is no motivation to get better jobs or do anything for themselves. And why should they?
Instead, the (US Government) is too fucking busy paying attention to everyone else problem around the world. This shit makes my blood boil!!

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Just like you, I'm not the most sympathetic person when it comes to homeless people. But, at the same time, you cannot say that EVERY homeless person is a lazy sack of shit that doesn't want to get a job. Sickness and depression are UGLY things that not everyone has to put up with.

Oh yeah, and that link? It's fox news. Pseudoscience at best. Please try to find better sources =D

There are two kinds of homeless individuals (note, I'm not talking about families):

1. Homeless people that are {mostly} homeless year round.
2. Homeless people that decide to not pay rent in the warmer months.

BryLmoo said:

Oh yeah, and that link? It's fox news. Pseudoscience at best. Please try to find better sources =D

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My bad.
One would only need to do a Google search on the topic to find their favorite "political views" news source.

Bottom line, the reports read the same.

Minimum Wage is a joke.

It has long past gone below living wage.

OrochiEddie said:

You seem to grossly over estimate the amount of individuals that would qualify for inpatient treatment.

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Maybe...Maybe Not.

But if you get them outta society and most likely not procreating this could have a tremendous impact on the number of people in jail who aren't mental and stand a chance at being rehabilitated in future generations.

mr_b said:

Maybe...Maybe Not.

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No, you are.



Can we change mr_b's custom title to "eugenics supporter"?

OrochiEddie said:

Can we change mr_b's custom title to "eugenics supporter"?

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I'm down with that.

A few more things from the my hyper-octopus-kraken pain-in-the-ass of a brain:

On the flip side of Los Angeles' skid row, there are people who really like being pretty much homeless- and view it as outdoor living like camping. Interestingly enough, contrary to popular thought, I've met at least one of this type of person- this guy is a 24/7 street entrepreneur. Not to mention one of the best story tellers I've ever heard, he's awesome. As far as I know, this man does not panhandle at all. He collects recyclables, then uses that money to buy cheap beer at liquor stores which he sells on the street late at night. He said he prefers sleeping in a tent with his cooler on all but the coldest nights. He gets laid a lot, and yeah, most of the women are homeless addicts and prostitutes. He didn't really seem like an alcoholic to me either, as he sells most of the beer he buys. He's a nice guy and people like him, he said he doesn't sell street drugs, just beer.

And about mental illness/Schizophrenia: This shit is fucked up and mostly genetic (i.e.: from birth) and it's not their fault. People like this are often screwed by life like people with developmental disabilities, but they are often intelligent. Imagine trying to live your life and hearing voices constantly telling you what to do, filling you with paranoia. In the 80s, Reaganomics did a fucked up thing in cutting funding for mental health care for people like this. They need serious HELP and not punishment, jail and/or discrimination. Since I know there are people on this site that have OCD, ADHD, Asperger's, etc.- we should all be understanding that people get genetically fucked by the dice-roll of life. Anyone remember Clint Gorman, aka Jigen? He got fucked by cystic fibrosis and died a young death in his 20s for it. No one thought he should have been put in jail or treated like shit because his lungs were constantly filling up with mucous and eating away his life.

R.I.P. Clint.

Another thing is that you shouldn't attack people who don't understand these realities- you can't educate and put down at the same time. People who need serious help among us deserve to get it, and yes- we taxpayers should pay for it. Everyone can't be a determined island of self-sufficient iron will. Yes people will take advantage of the system, but we aren't talking about poverty here, we are talking about serious, genetically inherited mental illness. People who are just poor and uneducated are a different topic, and it's more complicated.

Most of the homeless in downtown Los Angeles are people battling with mental illness. There are a lot of schizophrenics out on the street that return to the same locations out of habit. There's one that has been arrested half a dozen times already over the past year, and I'm sure we'll see him back in his favorite stoop as soon as he is released. I don't think of homeless as criminals. Most seem to be benign, but in the wee hours when they're searching for a fix to calm their head, the screaming and fighting that you'll hear from the street is a bit... off-putting. I have a double-whammy. I live on the same block as a grocery store, and the homeless sit outside in droves, looking for handouts and change. I feel for some. I've bought food for a couple. I don't give money, usually because I don't have any to give... but honestly I could care less what they do with the cash they panhandle. If they buy drugs with it to ease their mind or push the mental illness down for a few hours, who am I to say they shouldn't have that tiny reprieve from pain. For the most part, they're wretched, broken, and can be a nuisance, but none I've witnessed seemed to have any criminal intent.

being poor sucks.