Leaked document shows U.S. Govn't collecting phone records of 90-100 million Verizon users

Xander Crews said:

If they think everyone is "lying" to them, maybe they have a poor grasp on the truth.

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The problem with having that job is that you see the very worst of people, every single day and it is incredibly dehumanizing. Getting jaded is understandable. Conversely, if you don't have the mental makeup to do the job.. you shouldn't be on the job.

There's no excuse for the police brutality that exists in this country. Zero excuse.

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Give people power and they abuse it. There is just no way to stop it. I'm not saying accept it, I'm just saying it's inevitable.

Do police officers even know what their jobs are? Do they remember why they joined the force? Seems like they just needed a steady paycheck and a gun to make them feel less like losers.

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Ehhh.. I'll disagree. The problem is that crusaders are usually the ones who don't make it or are just blunted to the realities of being in law enforcement after a long enough time. There are a LOT of good cops out there and characterizing them all as middling Neanderthals is very unfair. I'm not going to say there aren't knuckle-dragging mouthbreathers out there; there are.

One of the problems is that being an officer is not a glamour job nor does it end up being lucrative until later in their career. The exams and selection process are VERY skewed towards veterans and other classifications so that even if a highly qualified candidate enters the process, the likelihood of them getting selected comes down to a wide set of factors and their pure qualifications and scores are only part of it.

College graduates who become cops are more likely to get killed on the job than veterans and other groups. That's a fact.

neo_moe said:

Not trying to flame you or anything man, but what exactly did they think the job was going to be? It should be kind of a given that the life/work of a cop is going to be tough.



You are absolutely right. But veteran doctors, nurses and teachers should not be abusing the people they are supposed to be serving either...no matter how disallusioned they are by their jobs.



I'm sorry but that isn't a good enough excuse. If you can't do your job properly, then you shouldn't be doing it all.

This applies to everyone...but even more so to people in law enforcement who have an obligation to serve people by maintaining justice and order. I'm sorry dude but nothing you are saying is registering with me.

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No Flame taken by anyone here not agreeing with my view. I see everyone's point to it. I just don't think its realistic. And to clear up my 1st post, I kinda shot that off pretty quick while doing shit at work. Yes, I could care less what happens to criminals and suspects to major crimes aren't going to get much sympathy from me. If you're a suspect of a major investigation you probably got on their radar somehow someway.


*** Edit to include thoughts on VT's post ***

I agree a lot of what you say there. You definitely put it more eloquently than I did.

mr_b said:

Eh wish for it all you want. Doubt it will happen though. If you've spent any amount of time around law enforcement you'd have a better understanding of what is seen day in and day out. You guys might not agree with my views and that's fine. I just tend to see things in a very black and white nature and not much room for grey area. I know I'm close minded on a lot of things and been told it many times as well. I don't try to cover it up.

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Right.

Where I live, it's mostly a bunch of small towns where the cops have no real crime to "fight". Instead they spend their days lounging about their cruisers in parking lots while shoveling the dozen Dunkin Donuts they got for free, while their shirt buttons become tighter every passing month due to inactivity. When they do "something", it usually comes down to setting speed traps, or pulling people over for not wearing a seat belt, or using a cell phone.

They don't see shit day in and day out.

Being a cop in an urban environment is one thing. Being a cop in the rest of America is something else. They sit on their asses day in and day out abusing their power as the big fish in the small pond to make up for when they were made fun of in high school. They put their 20 or 25 years in, where they are making over 6 figures at the end of it. Then they put their retirement papers in and cash out all of their unused days for another massive 6 figure payout. When all is said and done, they are usually a fat, out of shape fuck when they retire. If they're not, they get a cushy "security" job doing nothing other than chasing skaters and teens off the mall property.

So tell me again what it is most of them do.

The police are nothing more than the most dangerous gang in America.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/

It's not just phone records. It's all digital data - phone, text, internet use. Everything. Apparently people aren't just sitting around reading it, but you can probably assume that there is a complete digital dossier on you and any other individual that's as comprehensive and dubious as your national credit report, ready to be read when they actually want to.

This is not something a free country engages in. Next memorial day, you can thank the soldiers for fighting so that you can be surveiled and cattled.

Funny that article states origins of PRISM starting in 2005...

I remember back in 2005 when working at the ISP at the time that there were numerous government regulations that ISP's had to implement to ensure they would be able to actively tie back an IP to the correct customer. I wasn't involved much in the rollout on the internet side. It was nothing major really. It had more to do with ISP's having better internal processes on ensuring if you were questioned who had this IP at this time you could hand over the account information of the customer.

Just boiled down to saying customer "A" had this equipment and the equipment mac addy's match this ip at that time. I did work on system for our phone side that ensured we knew which phone numbers were delegated to which account. Again just better record keeping internally. No snooping.

...speaking of the police:

http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senate-passes-bill-making-harassment-police-officer-crime

The New York State Senate today passed a bill that creates the crime of aggravated harassment of a police or peace officer. The bill (S.2402), sponsored by Senator Joe Griffo (R-C-I, Rome) would make it a felony to harass, annoy, or threaten a police officer while on duty.

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This was worded way too fricking vaguely for my comfort level.

No more blatant recording of police activity.

Xander Crews said:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/

It's not just phone records. It's all digital data - phone, text, internet use. Everything. Apparently people aren't just sitting around reading it, but you can probably assume that there is a complete digital dossier on you and any other individual that's as comprehensive and dubious as your national credit report, ready to be read when they actually want to.

This is not something a free country engages in. Next memorial day, you can thank the soldiers for fighting so that you can be surveiled and cattled.

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I could not agree more. Tyranny has only begun.

tyr·an·ny [tir-uh-nee]
noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
1.
arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.


The US government. The most trusted and honest government in the world. Just ask this guy...............

I really dont care if the government reads my shit. they can open my letters and read them if they want.

They aren't trying to get you for Tax fraud. The are trying to secure the nation.

NeoSneth said:

I really dont care if the government reads my shit. they can open my letters and read them if they want.

They aren't trying to get you for Tax fraud. The are trying to secure the nation.

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Every despotic ruler in recent history has started out under the pretense of securing the nation.

NeoSneth said:

I really dont care if the government reads my shit. they can open my letters and read them if they want.

They aren't trying to get you for Tax fraud. The are trying to secure the nation.

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The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home.

--James Madison

lithy said:

The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home.

--James Madison

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I'm going to concede this was more eloquently put than my effort.

SonGohan said:

Lagduf just popped the biggest anti-government boner, the likes of which hasn't been seen since Thomas Paine.

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The only boner I'm getting right now is because I'm imagining you imagining me popping a boner

Lagduf said:

The only boner I'm getting right now is because I'm imagining you imagining me popping a boner

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The boners of Wes²

SonGohan said:

The boners of Wes²

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Starring Southtownkid as Wes, Wes, and himself (Wes.)

cannonball said:

One of the stupidest things I've seen anyone say on this forum...and that's saying something.

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All you had to do is wait one page over and find this gem:

NeoSneth said:

They aren't trying to get you for Tax fraud. The are trying to secure the nation.

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Securing the nation, supporting freedom, fighting the red menace, fighting terror....its always some stupid cunt excuse to win you over before bending you over. Aren't you supposed to be intelligent? What kind of fucking retarded eggbert shit is this?

SECURING THE NATION LMFAO....are we all hackers with access to sensitive government information? You know what you actually uncover from spying on people?
Their dirtiest secrets, things they fear, their insecurities, their fetishes....especially the things we men jack off to on this fucked up, filthy assed internet...where degradation, abuse, and depravity is pretty much ubiquitous.

If I was in charge and I had access to every embarrassing, dirty little secret my enemies, opponents, or detractors held on to, you could bet your wifes cunt I would use it to make sure nobody got a little TOO righteous or ambitious for their own good. I'd also use it to pretty much destroy and bury anyone who wanted to shake up the status quo as well....like Elliot Spitzer, for example.

Spoon said:

Securing the nation, supporting freedom, fighting the red menace, fighting terror....its always some stupid cunt excuse to win you over before bending you over. Aren't you supposed to be intelligent? What kind of fucking retarded eggbert shit is this?

SECURING THE NATION LMFAO....are we all hackers with access to sensitive government information? You know what you actually uncover from spying on people?
Their dirtiest secrets, things they fear, their insecurities, their fetishes....especially the things we men jack off to on this fucked up, filthy assed internet...where degradation, abuse, and depravity is pretty much ubiquitous.

If I was in charge and I had access to every embarrassing, dirty little secret my enemies, opponents, or detractors held on to, you could bet your wifes cunt I would use it to make sure nobody got a little TOO righteous or ambitious for their own good. I'd also use it to pretty much destroy and bury anyone who wanted to shake up the status quo as well....like Elliot Spitzer, for example.

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My advice is to drop the shame game, and ignore what other people think. By all means, wear the mask of a regular joe, but don't be bashful when someone tries to pull your mask off. Just roll with it. Otherwise, your true face becomes your weakness. If someone comes around and calls me out for whatever questionable social activity I engaged in, I will just go along with it.

The same way you dealt with bullies while in high school.

Yeah, I'm a faggot. Fuck off.

Xander Crews said:

My advice is to drop the shame game, and ignore what other people think. By all means, wear the mask of a regular joe, but don't be bashful when someone tries to pull your mask off. Just roll with it. Otherwise, your true face becomes your weakness. If someone comes around and calls me out for whatever questionable social activity I engaged in, I will just go along with it.

The same way you dealt with bullies while in high school.

Yeah, I'm a faggot. Fuck off.

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Well if I ever run for any political office, I'll be marketing myself as a regular joe who doesn't bother with any kind of normal porn where the women aren't degraded/traumatized....because if I wanted vanilla fucking, I'd go back to my ex.

Spoon said:

Well if I ever run for any political office, I'll be marketing myself as a regular joe who doesn't bother with any kind of normal porn where the women aren't degraded/traumatized....because if I wanted vanilla fucking, I'd go back to my ex.

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You'd have my vote.

After what transpired in the Wikileaks incident, stuff like this isn't so surprising anymore.

NeoSneth said:

I really dont care if the government reads my shit. they can open my letters and read them if they want.

They aren't trying to get you for Tax fraud. The are trying to secure the nation.

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I want to be that optimistic, but I can't anymore.

A lot of valid points have been made here, Moe and VT hit some solid points about becoming embittered. This happens to often, and from a mental health standpoint (yea yea I know) its pretty easy to predict and understand. Some police (city) see real terrible things on a daily basis, but refuse to seek any sort of counseling or support for those experiences. Plenty of research has shown police officers to have PTSD symptoms equal to or greater to returning soldiers who have seen active combat. More has to be done to break this mentality of the tough no BS police force.

In the suburbs though, its a different story. There barely is a point to the law enforcement out in the NW burbs of Chicago (where I'm from). The police aren't protecting anyone, but scaring people into following arbitrary and stupid laws. They're bullies on a power trip, scaring perfectly innocent people and collecting pay checks via writing stupid tickets. Sitting in a median with no headlights on waiting to bust a speeder is not serving or protecting, its just collecting the commission in a very dangerous way.

By my parents house there is a road that provides as a short cut to bypass a lot of heavy traffic. A lot of people take this road, but the speed limit is 25 mph (used to be 35....no idea why it went down). There is a road the runs perpendicular that runs into the first road as a T-intersection. There is also a lot of vegetation in this area too. The police like to park there cars just a bit down this road to hide in the vegetation and wait for people to speed down the first road (is this making sense?). This is pretty typical, but the police park long ways across the road, blocking most of the road for their little poaching game. This is also the road I turn on to get to my parents place. I have almost t-boned police cars there so many times because they are hiding behind in a blind spot as I am turning. This is just a perfect example of the nonsense that is being pulled in the name of safety. He is having 0 regard for other drivers by parking illegally and putting himself at risk and other drives of an accident. I am sure if he was hit he would be innocent as well....fucking hell.

I'm with VT, I thought the whole deal about the NSA diverting information
from the phone companies was pretty common knowledge.
I think the worst and frustrating thing about it though is there's not much to do about it.
You can be tracked by your phone, camera systems, toll roads, and credit card activity.
I'm not sure about internet browsing habits, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
The government has become pretty close to google.
Read whatever you want into that.
You can find ways to be off the grid,
but it takes a pretty concerted effort to do so.
It's easy to figure someone out from their habits,
either by social or financial patterns.

what's really frightening is that even the new york times is starting to catch on ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

galfordo said:

what's really frightening is that even the new york times is starting to catch on ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

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The sad thing is that the Patriot Act will never be repealed unless this country ceases to exist.

galfordo said:

what's really frightening is that even the new york times is starting to catch on ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

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The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said on Thursday that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future. Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, the vice chairman of the committee, said the surveillance has “proved meritorious, because we have gathered significant information on bad guys and only on bad guys over the years.”

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What in the name of L. Ron Hubbard is that woman smoking?