TONK TOOK 5000 USD TO SELL THE FAKE AEROFIGHTERS 3 US ( REPORT)

Tarma · Mar 23, 2013

I'll say this much, that if this is all a scam of some description, then it is turning out to be one of the most, if not the most, elaborate of scams in the history of videogames... You cannot help but ask yourself why someone would go to all this trouble over a few videogames.

Still, I'm yet to be convinced on several aspects of all of this, and remain firmly on the fence, where I've been since this pretty much all went pear shaped.

Geddon_jt · Mar 23, 2013

SuperGun said:
Well, I can guarantee you that he did not just create that picture right now because I have had pictures of that board since many months ago when he sent it to me.

Again, it is not, because I also have a picture of his tax return papers as well which he also sent me months ago.

I may be wrong, but I am sure he could post up more pics of that board. Bottom, sides, etc. He probably just didn't assume people would call something hardware related a "fake" with more proof required, lol.

And before you guys ask "why haven't we seen this board/ tax returns etc", its because there are people on this site who, despite massive public pressure, don't sell out their friends, and don't go back on their word. David asked us not to share the tax returns, but he did forward them to all buyers, with that request, whatever his reasons might be.

These same people never outed wolf and 8man because they wanted to stay out of this. Whether that was right or wrong was for them to decide. It would have been easy to sell them out when the heat was high, but billy and I stepped up and took all of it.

The exact opposite of a fellow like champagne, who despite getting a refund on his suggested terms, still threatens and throws people under the bus solely to serve his own interests. Haven't you guys figured him out yet by now?

SSS · Mar 23, 2013

Tarma said:
You cannot help but ask yourself why someone would go to all this trouble over a few videogames.
.

I can think of a few tens of thousands of reasons

lantus360 · Mar 23, 2013

Geddon_jt said:
And before you guys ask "why haven't we seen this board/ tax returns etc", its because there are people on this site who, despite massive public pressure, don't sell out their friends,

a tax return would put this whole thing to bed.

also its interesting that you refer to David as a friend.

SSS · Mar 23, 2013

We're talking about a guy who couldn't recall where he worked, but remembered enough to manufacture converters and other complex neo products

StevenK · Mar 23, 2013

Geddon_jt said:
And before you guys ask "why haven't we seen this board/ tax returns etc", its because there are people on this site who, despite massive public pressure, don't sell out their friends, and don't go back on their word. David asked us not to share the tax returns, but he did forward them to all buyers, with that request, whatever his reasons might be.

These same people never outed wolf and 8man because they wanted to stay out of this. Whether that was right or wrong was for them to decide. It would have been easy to sell them out when the heat was high, but billy and I stepped up and took all of it.

The exact opposite of a fellow like champagne, who despite getting a refund on his suggested terms, still threatens and throws people under the bus solely to serve his own interests. Haven't you guys figured him out yet by now?

There's been lots of talk of throwing people under the bus, but what I think a lot of people are struggling to understand is why any information that helps to prove someone is telling the truth would be considered selling them out.

I accept that if someone has told you not to tell other people something, even if it exonerates them, then you might not want to pass it on, but if because of their refusal to let you pass on positive information that reflects well on everyone involved they are dragging your reputation through the mud with them then I think it gives you the right to.

Plus it also raises the question why do they not want to be proven innocent, what else are they hiding that they're worried this might bring up?

P.s. not talking about specific individual's reputations here, just generalising.

Tarma · Mar 23, 2013

SSS said:
I can think of a few tens of thousands of reasons

Quite possibly. If it were me, I'd be striving for, a quite frankly, larger payoff... unless of course that was the original intention (i.e. "REAL" King of Fighters 2000 US AES homecarts).

evil wasabi · Mar 23, 2013

lantus360 said:
a tax return would put this whole thing to bed.

How? You think anyone here is going to be doing the due diligence on that return?

Tarma · Mar 23, 2013

Xander Crews said:
How? You think anyone here is going to be doing the due diligence on that return?

That's what I was thinking... These must be possible to forge.

neo_mao · Mar 23, 2013

Xander Crews said:
How? You think anyone here is going to be doing the due diligence on that return?

I agree, I don't think that this puts the issue to rest.

Also, maybe i missed it now or months ago, but why is this information being released now? If DavidG didn't want to post his tax info, fine...but why could it not have been told that he gave it to all involved parties? How would that have been compromising his privacy at all? Why so secretive? It makes everyone involved look suspect.

The hypocrisy of this all makes my head spin. So many people went after FTL for conducting private sales, but look at how this has been handled. Hell, Tonk took a personal crusade against Kitkit (a true asset to this community) for privately undercutting the sale of $30 game. The double standard is such bullshit. Everything about this sale has been behind closed doors.

Also, does Geddon or Supergun own copies of AF3, and if so...how much did they buy them for? If so, isn't there a slight conflict of interest in their testimonies? Or I suppose that is no ones business either?

chamane · Mar 23, 2013

The Pinocchio team may have all the paper they want , that is not tne problem .
why the AF 3 ´s paper is so white (no chemical oxydation due to the Time) ?
Why can we find the same paper in PS2 and in !ARCADE! Prehistoric Isle 2 ?
Why am I not tho only buyer to think and to really know that these games are fake ?
Why the Pinocchio team never said to the community that the stock in the storage unit was RAY YOUNG'S one ?

alsmoneo · Mar 23, 2013

SuperGun said:
Again, it is not, because I also have a picture of his tax return papers as well which he also sent me months ago.

I know this is none of my business but....

The record of employment (ROE) papers would be better proof then tax returns. when you say tax papers are you talking about his T4's or the notice of assessment(as that does not disclose his place of employment).

SuperGun · Mar 23, 2013

alsmoneo said:
I know this is none of my business but....

The record of employment (ROE) papers would be better proof then tax returns. when you say tax papers are you talking about his T4's or the notice of assessment(as that does not disclose his place of employment).

Yes, we have the ROE paper as well, and they do show SNK Corporation of America on them as the employer. But regardless, none of these factors (in my own personal opinion) swayed me or my feelings over the games authenticity in either direction. For me, all I had to do was see and hold the games in my own hands.

I have always found that Tonk's basic and to the point description which he stated since the beginning has always said it best: "the games speak for themselves".

totoro · Mar 23, 2013

Not taking sides ...not really interested as i could never afford a 30k game legit or not ...

But i wonder do all these guys posting here even own one aes cart??
I cannot see how all this is interesting to non aes collectors and to be more specific, to more than a very few aes collectors...maybe around 6...

Wait that is why there were 6 copies available from the start??

Also when we are talking about a prototype how many copies are being produced ?More than one?Do they come out with boxes,inserts and labels??

Pinocchio team lol

Lemony Vengeance · Mar 23, 2013

OrochiEddie said:
What did he say in summary?

I didn't catch it all, so I would be put of line to speak on something I don't have all the info on, but it didn't look like it was in favor of the cart.

then again, if these were pre-release test copies, no one should expect the print quality to be up to par with the mass released stuff.

loegan43 · Mar 23, 2013

chamane said:
Why the Pinocchio team never said to the community that the stock in the storage unit was RAY YOUNG'S one ?

Is this confirmed? I thought DavidG stated he wasn't affiliated with Ray Young.

totoro said:
Also when we are talking about a prototype how many copies are being produced ?More than one?Do they come out with boxes,inserts and labels??

I found this curious too. Could swear DavidG said he was no longer working at SNK and his friend's there called him and told him Aerofighters 3 was available for purchase. Wouldn't that mean the carts were retail or were his friends selling off prototype carts to former employees. Sounds like a poor business practice.

hyper · Mar 23, 2013

Tarma said:
why someone would go to all this trouble over a few videogames.

$

why else

malignantpoodle · Mar 23, 2013

lantus360 said:
David,

once again this proof you provide is questionable at best.

Others have commented on the hardware pic - i wont because its definetely not my thing.

As far as the Bios screen goes - I was able to do this in FBA with 3 code changes and about 5 minutes - 2 of those minutes was compiling the executable

Awesome man, great work.

lantus360 said:
so why not post an image of both these things with 8 carts inserted and hooked up to a display? Or better yet - back it up with some solid fucking proof.

This.

fake · Mar 23, 2013

DavidG said:
I will start by saying that I don’t have a problem with anyone here. Do I like everyone here? No. Am I happy over how all this went down? Of course not. Can things ever change? I hope it could but as long as those in power are close minded, I don’t see how that can ever be. If you’re looking for the “Truth” you must first be open to the possibility that the games are real. If you fail at this very first step, there isn’t anything anyone can say or do that will ever change your mind.

There are some here who don’t want to see these games ever be proven to be real. All of this is a new source of drama since the older dual has become tired and worn out. I’ve said it over and over, if you have a problem with these games - direct it to me, not Tonk.

With regards to the refund, the game is real, you were not happy with it and we needed to work out a solution. I didn’t have to give a refund, I made the choice to do so because I stand behind the game. That has never changed, or will it ever. We did end up working out a solution and the game was returned. Again, I have no problems with anyone involved.

There are some issues with regards to how they compared the game. A pre-release, prototype, or test print will normally never match perfectly with a mass production final. You can apply this to just about anything from cars to electronics. This opens the door for a slight issue when you take a pre-released item and attempt to compare it to something that was done later, on another scale (short run vs mass production) and difference source data.

Lets look at this another way:

You buy a perfect rare red apple. You take this apple home and you’re very happy with this apple. Later on you start to worry if this apple truly is a real apple. Since you don’t have any other apple’s like this in your collection you resort to taking a perfect orange to compare it too. You feel this should work out fine since both the apple and the orange both came from the same farm. After a detailed analysis you’re upset to find that your very rare apple isn’t a real orange at all, and rightly so - because it isn’t a “real” orange.

If you bought a Metal Slug 1 US home cart and felt that it may not be a real MS1, what would you do? Would you compare it to a confirmed real Metal Slug 1 US home cart or would you compare it to Ninja Masters US home cart because it was also made around the same time? It’s known that the quality of AES titles change from title to title so much that you simply can’t use one title to confirm another. If anyone offered a MS1 US and stated that it was real only because it looked as good as his Ninja Masters US, would it sell? I think not.

Yet this is exactly what has been done and used as evidence that the title is fake. When AF3 was first examined this exact issue was a concern. How do you authenticate a pre-release title with no other pre-release titles to compare it too? You can’t use a mass produced title as the confirmed rule book - if you did this then most of your AES collection would fail when compared to it.

The only thing you can do is to examine what the title has and doesn’t have. Is something missing that should be there? Aero Fighters 3 was compared to almost the entire neo library. The results were posted and you made your choice.

Aero Fighters 3 has it’s issues from a quality stand point. That is why the world does pre-release and test prints. I will go on record right now and agree with you. An Apple isn’t a Orange.

From what I'm seeing here, the degradation in visual quality isn't due to the printing process, but due to digitization. You can even see aliasing issues in your manual. The caveat is that some of these issues could occur due to Chamane's scanning process, but I'm assuming he knows how to use a scanner.

DavidG · Mar 23, 2013

Let me say this as simple as I can. You're a flat out liar. As I said before, you're doing everything you can do so as much damage as possible.

ANYONE who takes out AF3/PS2's insert and PI2's and could says they are the same is high on crack.

You're playing off the fact that not many people have these two titles to confirm what you're saying. I do, and I have no problem taking the inserts out and proving you to be 100% full of shit. I don't care if the game is no longer mint, it's not for sale anyways.

Lets take a look, this image was taken a few minutes ago. It was also taken on top of a prototype 8 slot board that some think was made in photoshop.

The inserts are so different, you don't even need to measure them. They are as far away from each other as they can get. The only thing you can say that does match, is that both were printed on paper.

Lets make things even worse, PS2's paper is even thinner than AF3's. Why not show everyone here your PS2 since you seem to have one.

chamane said:
The Pinocchio team may have all the paper they want , that is not tne problem .
why the AF 3 ´s paper is so white (no chemical oxydation due to the Time) ?
Why can we find the same paper in PS2 and in !ARCADE! Prehistoric Isle 2 ?
Why am I not tho only buyer to think and to really know that these games are fake ?
Why the Pinocchio team never said to the community that the stock in the storage unit was RAY YOUNG'S one ?

IDCHAPPY · Mar 23, 2013

Man, I could watch this all day long....

hyper · Mar 23, 2013

DavidG said:
Let me say this as simple as I can. You're a flat out liar. As I said before, you're doing everything you can do so as much damage as possible.

ANYONE who takes out AF3/PS2's insert and PI2's and could says they are the same is high on crack.

You're playing off the fact that not many people have these two titles to confirm what you're saying. I do, and I have no problem taking the inserts out and proving you to be 100% full of shit. I don't care if the game is no longer mint, it's not for sale anyways.

Lets take a look, this image was taken a few minutes ago. It was also taken on top of a prototype 8 slot board that some think was made in photoshop.

The inserts are so different, you don't even need to measure them. They are as far away from each other as they can get. The only thing you can say that does match, is that both were printed on paper.

Lets make things even worse, PS2's paper is even thinner than AF3's. Why not show everyone here your PS2 since you seem to have one.

so what you're saying is...

u never worked for snk?

IDCHAPPY · Mar 23, 2013

hyper said:
so what you're saying is...

u never worked for snk?

I didn't see that in his post?

OrochiEddie · Mar 23, 2013

Open the cart

DavidG · Mar 23, 2013

Give me 10 mins.

OrochiEddie said:
Open the cart

TONK TOOK 5000 USD TO SELL THE FAKE AEROFIGHTERS 3 US ( REPORT)

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