Power Spikes II Dog Tag and Euro Homecarts Discovered!

HeavyMachineGun said:

If those PS2 carts were fake, I wonder where that insert art was taken from...

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Pedrobear said:

Datecodes for dummies: 9437 = manufactured 37th week of 1994

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@Alaska- said:

about that, how do you read : J542 02B?

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Xian Xi said:

It's the 42nd week of 95. Some mask roms have misprints and have a letter instead of a number.

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♥People have been asking why I don’t reveal myself to the community and it’s due to the drama. What we’re seeing right now is at the core of the problem. It’s normal and natural to question something like this and that’s exactly why we took pictures inside and out for everyone to see. What I have a problem with is the reason behind some of the post we’re seeing.
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Lets take a look at the real issues at hand. These are topics not too many people like to bring up due to the backlash that may follow - So here we go:
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We have a few groups in the community with leads that all share the same common goal. We have Shawn, Ray, Dion and a few others but it’s safe to stick with those three since those names seem to come up the most and have been said in this post. Each of these characters are all after the same goal which is to be number one in the eyes of the neo scene. Each of these characters go about this in different ways but each will do what it takes to see it happen. Each of these characters have their pawns which jump in at just the right time and post exactly word for word what has been prepared for them before time. One common trait to these people is that they are so blinded by the end goal that anyone or anything in their way are removed using any means they can. Each have a choice of weapons they use to play this game, Shawn has money, Dion "had" a direct connection to SNK and plays off that to his advantage, Ray has a good deal of resources. Now to be fair
we’ve not seen Ray in a long time or any of his pawns but we do see Dion’s pawn all the time. Do I even need to mention who Shawn’s pawn of the day is? A word to you little pawn, once you’re no longer making him any money you’re forgotten about.
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We all know the game you’re playing and I’m fine with letting you play it as long as it doesn’t come at my expense. So why are we seeing them here now when some of these people have not bothered to make a post in ages? Because something new has been found, something that gets us talking and by the neo gods they had nothing to do with it. How could this be they ask themselves? One sitting on his imaginary throne, the other flexing with empty proto carts, and if Ray is here reading this I’m sure he is having a smoke thinking of how to get in on it. But sadly the fact is when you can’t have something the most childish of us will turn and think "If I can' thave it no one can" and it turns to hate. It has been said before and I will say it again, if Shawn had made the post then the other side would be all over it, if NGF made the post then all of us would be on it (it’s one of the only times everyone is on the same side in this game).
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I want it to be known to all the players of this game reading this, we know what you’re doing and we know why you’re doing it. We're not 12, we're not stupid and finally, it’s not going to work.
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Lets move on to some facts. When I say fact I mean something you can back up rather then your personal option. If you come up with something that "shouldn’t be like that" then it must apply to all SNK’s work. If you check everything SNK made and this turns out to be the one time in the history of the company that it is seen then it will be noted. Does it make it fake? No, because there is a first time for everything♥but it will be considered.
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Shawn: Is there a Japanese version of this game? I’m sure it was made but I wasn’t there for that meeting and I wouldn’t have taken it since I wasn’t collecting Japanese games at the time. Please note I wasn’t at the factory at the time they were made, I was at the meeting when they were shown to Video System. I’m one person and I’m not going to be able to be at every meeting for every game for every format. I do have to work, eat and sleep at sometime.
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Your !Arcade! post - I’m sure wherever Ray is he is laughing out loud. That post shows you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about, none. There is a difference between machine produced pcb’s and machine assembled. You can find yourself a DIY (that’s Do It Yourself) pcb kit from Digikey part number 473-1028-ND. Now that one is a little on the higher end but you can find ones for $70 from them as well. Now back in the day when PCB’s were very costly these kits were great. You could make a pcb in a few hours and test a design right away. The problem with these kits are:
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1) The boards and chems cost to much.
2) You have to manually drill every hole on the board without hitting or breaking a solder pad.
3) The protective coating left on the boards is very easy to scratch off and once it does the board falls apart.
4) The exposed parts like the edge connector (That’s the part we insert into the neo Shawn) will begin to oxidize and soon after won’t work well.
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So when it comes to these kits they are great for testing a design. You would hate to drop $7,000 on a pcb run only to find out something is wired wrong, something is missing or a chip doesn’t fit the pad. They are simply not meant for long term use. That being said when you need pcb’s to last and you need a lot of them then you must have them made "by machine". One fact you were right about is that !Arcade!’s pcb’s are indeed machine made. But are they machine assembled? The answer is no, Tonk has posted a picture of the back of !Arcade!’s custom program board and you can see the solder residue left behind by whoever solder it by hand. You don’t have to take my word for it Shawn you can take anyone of your !Arcade! made games, confirm it has one of their blue boards (which is easy) and simply have anyone of many people on the forums who can open it and take some pictures. You will see that it was done by hand.
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Unlike yourself I have no problems opening a game to get the facts. Let's fill you in on some things you clearly don’t know about. On the images posted of !Arcade!’s custom pcb’s do you see where they have 6 capacitors C1, C2, C3, C4, C5 and C8? In the image it’s not as easy to see but when you take the time to look at the board in hand you will notice those are not surface mount solder pads but those are surface mount capacitors. The pads on the board are the same as the yellow caps you see being used at the front of every rom chip. So how does a machine solder a surface mount capacitor to a pad that is a hole? It doesn’t, because it was done by hand. That is the result of someone being lazy you see, when the board was designed they wanted to use new capacitors like the yellow ones you see in the image. But when you’re sitting there and you have to make hundreds of these boards and you find a way to scoop the old ones off the MVS board
cutting your time in half, wouldn’t you? The jumpers on the board, same thing - in the main images you can see where someone used a wire to jump the pads plus solder. On later boards which I have seen and you can prove by looking for yourself !Arcade! simply jumped the two holes with a ball of solder. It still works just the same but not as nice looking.
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On to the art side of things. You have these games, we all know you do and you also have other SNK games in hand. Have you taken any time to really look at their games? If you spent one minute of your life looking at any of !Arcade!’s titles like you have here with PS2 or AF3 you wouldn’t bring up !Arcade!’s games again. But lets not hold back for those reading here today who don’t have a game made by them to compare too. The manual is larger than the average AES manual and the staples are in the wrong spots. On Strikers did you even notice the NGH number on the back is wrong? Did you open the manual for any of their games and check the memory card page? Nice half assed scans used there. Check Ganryu’s memory card page where they cropped some of the memory card instruction image - why? Because they didn’t care and you were never going to check. Do we even need to look at the insert’s Shawn? Do we need to point out the NEO logo on the spine
of Strikers? Do we need to point out the wrong color stripes, low quality images? The one thing !Arcade! has going for them here is that this was never meant to be a SNK release. I bought my games from them just like you did and I remember everything they said. They wanted to make a game better then SNK with full color manuals, gold foil stamping. It looks amazing siting on the table but look at it closely and see for yourself.
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There is nothing on !Arcade!’s game that could pass as a real copy. Just my view on things but I think PI2’s insert is the best work they have ever done but if you really look at it there is nothing to say.
I give you credit that you do think before you speak but you still don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. I’m sure you and your pawns will find something to say but everything above can be backed up by opening the games you have in hand. Do that before you reply♥because♥we’re tired of your games.
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FTL: I should just put your name up with Shawn’s since you’re both working together but I had to point something out. You said you’re a lawyer, if that’s true then god help those you represent. Fact - SNK made each company pay for the test runs but they were clever about it by hiding the fee in with the MVS production cost. Once the run is paid for and delivered it’s no longer SNK’s but Video System’s. If they wanted to pass them out to people walking by on the street they could do so and SNK then, now or in the future has no right to say anything about it. SNK makes money off every game made for MVS and AES and they wanted them to make as many carts as possible and VS paid in full for the carts made be it 1, 10 or 1000. They didn’t care if you could sell them or not because they were paid in full before the games were even finished. SNK pushed for the AES release and someone at Video System’s made the call not to move forward.
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Supergun: I agree with what you said. No one has the full 100% story as to what went on for every release and I think that is because it was never black and white. Fact is SNK would hit you with so many fees that♥if your game wasn’t a big hit you could be out of business. VS at the time wasn’t that large so teaming with Taito was a smart move. I’m also sure VS only had around 5000 kits made (the exact number is unknown) with almost all going to MVS. If they wanted to make a full AES release it would have meant a new mask rom run which was a lot of money back then. It’s not hard to see why it didn’t happen when the MVS wasn’t selling.
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Terry.330: You’re exactly right. Back in those days not to many people wanted to import Japanese versions of any game. The market for that was more on the SNES/Genesis since Japanese versions of a game were released way before the US. For the neo I didn’t have any need or want for any Japanese games. Most of my collection is english for all systems and all formats.
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ChrisR/Dion: I listed you first Chris before Dion, I hope that fuels the ego a little. We all know your master is around so might as well toss you both into the same mix. Over the years I’ve had a few of your games come my way, some by bad luck, others by request. Let me make♥this as clear as I can for you both. I can go down to the zoo, grab bobo the chimp, show him how to hold a soldering iron and let the chimp have his way on a pcb until it’s done and it would be better work than you have ever done. I’m not sure where you learned the lesson that if a chip won’t come out after desolder to use more force until it does. Both of you are♥much like the others in this game♥are♥so blinded in your ways that anything said here won’t have any effect. But you have no place to make a comment on solder, chips, pcb, inserts, manuals, or stickers. Looking at your "NGF Official" version of PS2 I see on your cart sticker you have the PS2 logo twice, I
guess you couldn’t get the "original" art for your "original" version. Looking at the real version I don’t see that being a problem, in fact looking at the insert cover I see a clear image with no writing on it at all. All versions of the art for this game have something written on it but not the real AES copy. Scan, copy and paste in photoshop FTW Chris. Try downloading a book on how to use the software you steal before you come here and talk like you know. Looking at your work, you guys tried to coin new stripe colors and you couldn't even get the colors to match between the sticker and insert.....Really? I can get you Bobo the chimps number if you need it down at the zoo, I hear his girlfriend is mean with photoshop and can teach you some things.
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Pedrobear: As I have said before here that anything you may point out as being wrong must be applied to the entire SNK library. If you want to narrow it down we can stick to the 94-95 games since it would be faster. I see you’re pointing out a lot of things but not much to back any of it up. That’s ok, let me do it for you.

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I did make a mistake, one which I knew about and even questioned before I sent the images. This mistake was taking the original pcb images in a dark area with low light on a dark red table. In person looking at the boards there is no question but when you add light, reflections and other conditions things change. So looking at the graphics board image you circled with red let me point out some things. We have a dark lit environment with the light source located above and to the top left of the board. Any unused solder points such as the two C roms are flat so they should be brighter then the rest which they are. The used pins that are soldered are sticking up so they should be reflecting everything around them plus some shine from the light. So again what do we have around this board? A dark red table in a average lit room. The LS logic chip that is located in the image at the bottom right does look different from the rest because it’s off by itself
and with the light coming from the opposite end of the board what does it have to reflect other than the shiny clear coating? In the exact same image to be fair with light conditions why not compare S1 to the LS logic chip sitting just to the left of it. With a conversion there is no need to touch the logic chips and yet in the same image you’re pointing out the logic matches the S1 chip solder points perfectly.
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But that’s not enough, lets take a look at this picture:
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Here we have Samurai Shodown 2 AES graphics board taken in the same spot under the same light. Now note I did move to the side just a little to further demonstrate just how dark reflections will play with the image. I went ahead and circled everything for you and you can see that #1 shows just how dark that side can be since the table is right beside it and that’s where the light is coming from. Number 3 shows the opposite side and you can see that it’s no where near as dark. Even for a conversion shouldn't both sides look the same? Odd isn't it? Lets check out number 2 which is the centre of the board, shows S1 and the 2 logic chips and sure enough the soldering is the same as it is with PS2. Keep in mind this is SS2 factory.
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Lets go one step further:
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Here is the program board for PS2 taken from a Euro version yesterday. I built a light box to help get better images. As you can see the logic and roms look the same, all unused pins shine as they should. BUT they look too dark you will say, it must be fake you’re thinking. Lets look at KOF94.
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Here we see the back of kof94 version one. With this version the board used is the wrong one and SNK went in after and manually jumped a wire. I have 3 of these just opened that show this wire so you can confirm it yourself if you want, just open your kof94. Also in the image you can see the same dark soldering of the roms and nice bright soldering on the unused rom pads. Kof94 is 100% legit but in that image we see damage done to the pcb by the V roms and a few pins don’t have consistent solder on them. Again all factory done but if you want to point out every little detail then KOF94 must be fake. Sorry Samurai Shodown 2 must also be fake as well using your views.
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I can and will show everyone here pictures of some of the worst work SNK has ever done. For those who have Samurai Shodown 5 MVS open it up and check the CMC chip on the graphics board. You have a 50% chance of seeing what I am talking about and you will be scared.
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The CHA256 has J18 enabled when it’s not needed for this game - correct. I’ve seen this many times over the years and as you have said yourself you have seen it as well. I don’t like to guess about things I don’t know for sure but if you want my opinion about how these were made then I would suspect that SNK added these to the start or finish or another game of the time that shared the same setup. A machine doesn’t know or care what might be coded on the roms as long as all chips are in the same spots. Based on the boards used and timing that leaves us with KOF94 v2 (v2 has the same program board as PS2) or Samurai Shodown 2. I would lean more to KOF94 due to the dates of when KOF came out vs SS2. We also know for a FACT that someone took this board, sat down and modified it. We know this because of the capacitor on the program rom. We know that SNK has a team of people who modify boards as they are being made as needed since it was done for
PS2 and as seen above it was done for KOF94 v1. SNK’s team will do whatever they need to make the game work, if the jumper is there and it has no effect on the game why waste time removing it? These people don’t get paid on how it looks, they get paid to push out as many boards as they can per day. How many KOF94’s were made you think...is 20,000 AES a good number to you? I think it was much higher but lets take 20,000 and your job is to add a wire to everyone of them and you can’t ship until you have a good number of them done. How would you feel about that job...I wouldn’t want to do it.
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The dates of the components are 5-6 months beyond rom chips date. I decode that as the NEO-PCM chip’s production date is normally offset 5-6 months that of the roms. This is untrue and I will tell you why. SNK never ordered exact number of PCM’s (or any custom chip) to match the number of pcb’s being made. SNK knew that chips like the PCM, 273, ZMC1, ZMC2 were going to be used for years so they often ordered massive numbers. So if they have 200,000 PCM’s made 6 months ago and they update the board they will keep using what they have until they run out. So this would appear to follow what you’re saying BUT what happens when they run out of a chip? Well they make more and when they do♥the production date doesn’t follow your example since the PCM and the rom dates match. The question is, can I prove what I am saying........Sure why not, let take a look at KOF94 v1 again but lets flip it over.
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Lets take a closer look so there is nothing left to chance:
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On PS2 looking at the images posted before I see 9440 on the roms and 9437 on the PCM. Using what you posted that means the PCM was made on the 37th month of 94 and the roms were made on the 40th month of 94 which is too close so it must be fake. So here with KOF94 v1 we have a PCM clearly factory installed that says week 38 in 1994 and a rom that says week 37 in 1994. Using your own post and everyone who is backing your claims then KOF94 AES is fake. Anyone who has a KOF94 using a PROGRK program board is a reproduction....all 20,000+ of them that sell for $35 each. So you're wrong or KOF94 is fake. Since my kof94 came from SNK directly and was new before I opened it I would say you're wrong.
　
I understand the need to protect the community in these tough times. Something that you have to understand is that SNK made mistakes and they were not perfect in how they ran their business or made their games. Many games have issues but it’s just the way it played out. If I could have seen the future I would have taken 500 metal slug 1’s instead of SS1, SS2, FF1, played the lotto once a year winning 50mill each time. I most certainly wouldn’t have spent that weekend in IL back in 98...Lets not go there. I could have made these public years ago but I stopped collecting and moved on with life. I had no intention of ever releasing anything but just by chance I found my way back to the community and here we are now.
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I find when you’re looking for something to be wrong you will always find what you’re looking for.

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chrisr said:

Wow! This folks, is what you call desperation, and desperation leads to mistakes, and mistakes lead to failure. This is a total failure.

Lets go over a few things:

This "source" has just wall of texted himself into a corner. I can say with 100% certainty that there was not a single person the worked at SNK that would understand even 5% of what you just tried to dazzle these people with. Especially not people that would be in on a meeting with a customer. If you have ever actually spoken to someone at SNK, or in the video game industry in general, you would know NONE of them care about PCBS, date codes, art sets, etc. Let alone understand about wave soldering, jumpers, or anything you could order from Digikey.

What you have done is come here and exposed yourself as an expert in everything about producing a video game PCB, and how it all fits together.

Oh, and by the way, your only defense to the game being real is:

"if its fake - let me see you produce one this good".

THATS IT - The entire argument in a nutshell!

So, you come here and give a page long dissertation on the finer points of making a cart look real, then tell us you were in on all these meetings with SNK related to front office business. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours speaking with SNK of Japan and SNK of America employees, and not a single one would care about anything you just said.


Your explanation has done exactly the opposite of the intended purpose. This isnt a court of law, it is the court of public opinion, and people do not have to live by evidence, just logic. The logic says fake. The community says fake. Hell, even shawn says fake.

Sounds like it is end of story.

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FTL said:

Poor Tonk....and this long posts would be "the source" itself....

He seems to LOVE the drama....he cares to label Shawn, ray Young,NGF and other neo geo fans as evil collectors and describes the neo collecting world more like a soap opera than a normal collecting hobby. Reminds a lot of ray Young's attitude if you ask me and Tonk used as devil gui was used by Young.

Yes, I'm a lawyer and your argument, source, is really a feeble argument: so the copyright belongs to video system or whatever company bought their rights...again IF those were real carts I'm really sure that selling them for $30k or even more would raise some interesting points to the court and your right to sell them when they were thought to be "not for sale material"

Then again, all your posts just go to convince me those carts are not real. You collecting english carts eh? Com'on show us your U 11 euro and last but not least, your NAME.
Too easy to use Tonk as your minion to sell these carts..even if you pay him good.

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FTL said:

Yes, I'm a lawyer and your argument, source, is really a feeble argument: so the copyright belongs to video system or whatever company bought their rights...again IF those were real carts I'm really sure that selling them for $30k or even more would raise some interesting points to the court and your right to sell them when they were thought to be "not for sale material"

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UMG appealed the decision to the Ninth Circuit, to no avail: the court flatly rejected the argument that merely slapping a notice on a copyrighted work prevents the work from ever being re-sold. The ruling helped cement the principle of first sale in copyright law -- once ownership has passed, copyright law no longer interferes with resale of lawfully made books, CDs, DVDs, or other copyrighted works.

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TonK said:

Typical shit from you as well.

"ooooh, let me see your Ultimate 11!"

Of course you don't think it's real.

Of course Chrisr doesn't think it's real.

Of course Shawn doesn't think it's real.

No matter what this guy says, you will all have a rebuttal.

He knows too little, he knows too much, he faked that, he made that up, he is Dion, he is Ray, he is Punjabee.

NOTHING will ever be enough unless you get a birth certificate and several witnesses.

When one of you creates a perfect replica, I'll eat my fucking words.

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cdamm said:

https://www.eff.org/cases/umg-v-augusto



im pretty sure this applies here, ftl. Im sure you are a fine lawyer in italy, but in the US once ownership passes, all bets are off in terms of ability to resell. Now if these are getting exported somewhere else then you may see some internaitonal copyright issues (but Im not a lawyer or familiar with international copyright law). It's why gamestop could sell 'not for resale' pack-in games and why a record store could sell 'promotional use only' cd's.

just sayin'.

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LWK said:

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chrisr said:

Lets talk after 12 years of micro analysis and then you can cry like a baby about people doubting you.

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The King of Fighters 2000 English has been the most scrutinized game in the history of video gaming. Even though people called SNK JAPAN directly and were told the game was authentic, there were some people that refused to believe.

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This is not the case with this game.

NEVER IN THE HISTORY of SNK has there been a "test" AES cartridge with full artwork, let alone, US artwork, let alone two versions. What are they testing by having a fully made game? Do you think NCSX, Japan Video Games, etc. got a preview of a games artwork and that was the game breaker for an order? Absolutely nothing about it makes sense.

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Didn't a member here dump some of his tester AES carts and show pictures of them? Clearly, they were not anything like this "perfect" game.

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You say the game is perfect.

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You say it is so good NOBODY could fake it.

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I say that sounds reasonable to me.

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People tried to fake KOF2000 and failed, even though they did the best they could, even faking the stickers and stamp. Faking something from a print is impossible really. People seemed to ignore that fact with the KOF2000.

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Power Spikes 2 is not a reproduction, because no original exists, so they are not copies, but the next level of fan made games.

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If this source ever comes out (not going to happen), and explains who he/she is, and the rest of the "story" - I will eat MY fkn words.

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FTL said:

Of course it is correct what you posted.

I'm questioning the main premise: "the ownership passes"...from source's words the actual scenario sounds really unbelievable: he went to some meetings and got some test shots..( actually he got multiple copies of the rarest and unheard games as we have seen!)...if this was the case, he should have come out into the light and sell with all the proper details the carts...he would have sold them for much more instead of using Tonk....it is pretty clear that resorting to using tonk means he has something to hide...maybe just about "acquiring ownership of the carts" or just about legitimacy of them.

As for the drama thing: from his words you can clearly grasp he follows the scene, loves the drama and even has his idea of the neo geo collectors...like most of the people here had only neo geo to give a sense to their life..that's pure comedy gold.

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NEO-GEO man said:

So can still have those pics of the cart sticker??

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