NeoTheranthrope
Basara's Blade Keeper
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THE GUN IS ALL BLACK AND SCARY! BAN IT!
The death of Trayvon Martin
- Thread starter LoneSage
- Start date
Basara's Blade Keeper
THE GUN IS ALL BLACK AND SCARY! BAN IT!
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the thread is about how some huge teen died, and you're asking why the gun matters?
Is that question supposed to be overstatement?
NeoTheranthrope
Basara's Blade Keeper
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I'm really glad I withheld judgment on this, since most of the initial reports were all panicky, sensationalist... and ultimately wrong.
Instead of; "EVIL CRAZED RACIST WHITE VIGILANTE GUN-MAN KILLS INNOCENT UNARMED INNOCENT TEENAGE INNOCENT BLACK INNOCENT STUDENT!!!!!11 INNOCENT INNOCENT EVIL-GUNS WHARGARBLE!!!11"
It was; "Local idiot gets himself into dangerous situation where he's forced defend himself, which results in death of another idiot. Florida." which was what I figured it would turn out to be.
Instead of; "EVIL CRAZED RACIST WHITE VIGILANTE GUN-MAN KILLS INNOCENT UNARMED INNOCENT TEENAGE INNOCENT BLACK INNOCENT STUDENT!!!!!11 INNOCENT INNOCENT EVIL-GUNS WHARGARBLE!!!11"
It was; "Local idiot gets himself into dangerous situation where he's forced defend himself, which results in death of another idiot. Florida." which was what I figured it would turn out to be.
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My simpleton self doesn't really understand what you're getting at.
I was just curious why he posted what gun was used.
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Doesn't matter if the student was less-than-stellar in school, this is about justice. You chase after a kid because you THINK he's up to no good and ultimately take his life away, usually there are consequences for that. Not in this case.
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Sage, I am just curious...
If someone was on top of you punching you in the head hard and you had a gun on you, would you opt to hope for the best?
Or would you use it in the hopes you might survive?
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"huge teen"
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If you chase after and confront someone, which ultimately leads to physical confrontation and the death of the other person, then you need to be arrested. End of story.
This is an issue of race and I recognize why it is. Regardless, a kid lost his life because of a situation he did not instigate. I don't know what exactly was said to cause them to rumble or who threw the first punch. That doesn't matter. A guy murdered someone and walked away scot-free. This is about justice, and so far none has been served.
Tyranix95
Chang's Grocer
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@Lagduf: The Tek PF9 is an ideal concealed weapon. It's light, slim, small, and easy to conseal and reveal. And it's the smoking gun.
In genreal, if you see a crime being committe and the criminal runs away, then you cannot use deadly force to stop that person, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. (1.) So, if the use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, then you could be convicted of manslaughter. (ibid.) Zimmerman would know this. He could not have gotten his concealed weapons permint without it.
But, what if he saw a crime being comitted and the criminal runs away from him and he just wants to follow him. Clearly, following the suspect does not use deadly force. I would presume that he just wants to follow the suspect unitl police show up and he can ID the suspect for them. But--and here's the twist--what if his following action (before police show up on scene) causes the suspect to turn arround and physically attack him. Now, a fight has borken out and he had a concealed weapon.
Now, if Zimmerman is getting his ass kicked, really bad, can he defend himself with his concealed weapon? Can he shoot his attacker dead with it? What if, during the fight, the attacker finds his gun and tries to take it away from him, now can he shoot the attacker dead? The deadly fight with the gun would never have occured if Zimmerman had not pursued the suspect in the first place--if Zimmerman had just let the suspect walk/run away.
Think about it this way: If I follow a suspect, is it possible that the suspect could trun around and attack me? If he turns around and attacks me, did I cause a situation to develp in which I would have to defned myself? Can I claim Self-Defense in a dangerous situation that I cause? And what stops others from starting fights with suspects and then claiming self-defense when someone gets hurt or killed? Should this law be called STAND-YOUR-GROUND or STALK-A-SUSPECT?
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1. Use of Deadly Force for Lawful Self-Defense
In genreal, if you see a crime being committe and the criminal runs away, then you cannot use deadly force to stop that person, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. (1.) So, if the use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, then you could be convicted of manslaughter. (ibid.) Zimmerman would know this. He could not have gotten his concealed weapons permint without it.
But, what if he saw a crime being comitted and the criminal runs away from him and he just wants to follow him. Clearly, following the suspect does not use deadly force. I would presume that he just wants to follow the suspect unitl police show up and he can ID the suspect for them. But--and here's the twist--what if his following action (before police show up on scene) causes the suspect to turn arround and physically attack him. Now, a fight has borken out and he had a concealed weapon.
Now, if Zimmerman is getting his ass kicked, really bad, can he defend himself with his concealed weapon? Can he shoot his attacker dead with it? What if, during the fight, the attacker finds his gun and tries to take it away from him, now can he shoot the attacker dead? The deadly fight with the gun would never have occured if Zimmerman had not pursued the suspect in the first place--if Zimmerman had just let the suspect walk/run away.
Think about it this way: If I follow a suspect, is it possible that the suspect could trun around and attack me? If he turns around and attacks me, did I cause a situation to develp in which I would have to defned myself? Can I claim Self-Defense in a dangerous situation that I cause? And what stops others from starting fights with suspects and then claiming self-defense when someone gets hurt or killed? Should this law be called STAND-YOUR-GROUND or STALK-A-SUSPECT?
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1. Use of Deadly Force for Lawful Self-Defense
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I'm missing it too. I think Charliebear just misread your post where you asked why the type of gun mattered.
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Neither came to the gun fight with a knife.
Sixth
Sakura's Bank Manager
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If a person is investigating what they believe to be suspicious activity, in a gaited community – no matter how benign the ‘activity’, and overzealous the ‘investigating’– they are not somehow precluded from using deadly force to defend themselves if the person they are pursuing becomes irrational and physically confrontational. Like I said before, it is a terribly unfortunate situation where a young life was lost in a very sad misunderstanding. Still, the result of all of this does not need to be a situation in which people attempt to create a scenario in which a man actively pursued another with the intention of killing them.
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That wouldn't be as fun, now would it?
Regardless I just hope this situation is a wake up call for would-be vigilantes and those less than responsible with their concealed firearms.
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There are no witnesses that can tell us what lead to the actual altercation, besides Zimmerman. The only other guy who knows is dead. Zimmerman will just distort the story to save his own hide.
Are you one of the investigators or on a grand jury? How do you know that?
SPECULAAAAAATING
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There are no witnessnes that saw how it went down, that's how it stands at the moment.
Tyranix95
Chang's Grocer
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The officers indicate Six Witnesses in the Initial Police Report, excluding Martin and Zimmerman.
Not sure who these witnesses are yet, or what thier observations are; however, I'm sure someone will say something to a news reporter sooner or later.
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1. Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report
Not sure who these witnesses are yet, or what thier observations are; however, I'm sure someone will say something to a news reporter sooner or later.
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1. Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report
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character witnesses? Zimmerman had a reputation for protecting his neighborhood from robbers.
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It is actually required...... if you want to get Parole.
Sadly, it is like closing the barn door after the hoarse is out.
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All I know is that kid wouldn't have taken me down.
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I was reading about how people are protesting to have Zimmerman brought to justice
and I feel like this must have been what it was like 60 years ago
before civil rights, in reverse.
and I feel like this must have been what it was like 60 years ago
before civil rights, in reverse.