- Joined
- Apr 24, 2001
- Posts
- 13,690
Why? He's being very polite the whole time, he just has a different viewpoint on the matter.
Aero Fighters 3 U.S. AES Discovered!
- Thread starter TonK
- Start date
- Status
Why? He's being very polite the whole time, he just has a different viewpoint on the matter.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2002
- Posts
- 15,120
He's being an arrogant, passive-aggressive douchebag.
SetaSouji??
There Can be Only One
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2009
- Posts
- 4,158
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2000
- Posts
- 60,434
I'm assuming that the same is true for Simone and other non-native english speakers, hence the frustrations in communication.
Tyranix95
Chang's Grocer
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
- Posts
- 4,593
In therory, a "PERFECT" fake would probably originate from inside the company. And the company employee would have to have enough company access to be able to order (or make) all the parts necessary for the game. That means they would have alot of company access to the production line, or they were not working alone. In any event, if his or her or thier actions were unauthorized, then internal company controls and other (suspicious) co-workders would most likely notice the miss-allocation of company resources and stop this.
Forgers do not seem to recreate the company production line. They use the recources that they have access to. So, thier ablibity to make a "PERFECT" fake is limited.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2001
- Posts
- 19,316
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2001
- Posts
- 3,742
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2000
- Posts
- 6,667
I've known simone for years and he's always been like this. He's not a bad guy but fuck if his posts don't come off and condencending.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2001
- Posts
- 23,657
I've always thought he was a piece of shit since the pope incident.
Report – Part 3 of 3.
3. MANUAL.
The manual came in the standard typical manual baggie which appeared to be in new condition.
Most serious AES collectors worldwide agree that the telltale signs of a fake manual concern 1) the location and type of staples and 2) the “puffiness” of the manual. This is something bootleggers have a very hard time getting right. So here is the good news. The staples are correctly positioned and the manual “puffiness” is spot on with other SNK games. NGF couldn’t even get this right with their KOF 2000. The spine of the manual also exhibits similar creasing as to other manuals of similar size and thickness.
The cover of the manual (and really the entire manual itself) follows closely with the Aero Fighters 2 manual. It uses the correct fonts and the black border on the left side is correct for the period. The image, game logo, and copyright are positioned exactly the same as the US Aero Fighters 3 CD manual. HOWEVER, there is more of the fireball image on the top of the manual than is shown on the CD manual. That means either 1) the same digital source image was used but was digitally cropped in a different place, or 2) somebody took the time to scan and copy the CD manual, but Photoshop about 2 millimeters at the very top to create that much of the additional fireball graphic. Unlikely.
The inside of the manual cover has a large, bright and colorful Aero Fighters 3 logo exclaiming “Passing through time, SONIC Fighters prepare to fight World War II.” There is then at the bottom a thank you for purchasing the “Neo Geo Cassette AEROFIGHTERS 3” which is written in perfect SNK Engrish. To my knowledge, this page does not exist in other versions of this game.
The epilepsy warning card is correct and snug with the rest of the manual. Generally speaking, the contents of the manual are well-centered and neatly cropped. The pages appear to me to be of the correct paper weight and type and the opacity is correct (ie you can see through the pages to whats on the back of each page rather easily). The images throughout are detailed and of very high quality.
This manual is different than other games in that it treats the inside cover as page 2 and goes from there. The contents of the manual have many similarities with the CD version but there are different contents here and there (again, which are consistent with other games of the period). This results in different page numbers between this and the US CD version. Even Dion, an expert at “correcting” games, didn’t go through the time to add a bunch of content and renumber all the pages in his fake manual he posted pictures of. Why not? Because it’s a lot of work for nothing. When there is no original to compare to, why create additional work for yourself if you are counterfeiting the game? The work would extend to creating new page number symbols in the correct font for the additional pages that went beyond the number of pages in the CD manual. Just about every page has a different number than the other manual.
The page numbering is important for a different reason. The game following this one, Samurai 3, has identical page numbering between the US and Jap AES versions. The game right before this one, Stakes Winner, has TOTALLY different manuals entirely between the AES versions. So why would SNK do it this way for this game? I think the answer lies in Aero Fighters 2, which numbers the pages in exactly the same manner! Rather unique among other games of this period. If you compare Aero Fighters 2 and 3 manuals, they are really strikingly similar in layout and design.
The contents of the manual are cropped in slightly different places than in the Sonic Wings 3 Jpn AES and Aero Fighters 3 US CD manuals. This is within normal measurement tolerances for other games of the era. Significantly, in at least one instant, there is additional art shown in the US AES version manual that is slightly cropped off in the other versions of the game.
The back of the manual has the Neo Geo logo (correct) and the correct NGH number for the game in the upper right. The warning box in the top left is very typical of many games of the era. However, it should be noted that this box includes the “rented of sold” misprint that is common to some 1995 games, but not others. The Aero Fighters 3 CD has corrected this error which seems to suggest to me that these 2 manuals were printed at different times. Again, this is the type of thing that a counterfeiter would have to be extremely clever to include.
To protect the owners of the game at their request, I cannot provide any further photographs/scan of the inside of the manual.
4. CARTRIDGE.
The cartridge is standard SNK make in near-mint/like new condition. The PCB contacts were bright and corrosion-free. There was no gold warning sticker or residue from a gold warning sticker (a la NGF KOF 2k). This is correct of the period as this title was pre-gold warning stickers.
Onto the sticker. The sticker appears to be of the same stock as other typical SNK stickers. The colors and image of the sticker are bright and the image and font resolutions appear correct. There are very small dots visible in the neo geo logo at the top of the sticker which is correct for the period. The Neo Geo logo is of appropriate dimensions. Many 1995 games have a “stretched looking” Neo Geo logo on the top of the sticker, but this game does not. The measurements of the sticker are spot on with rounded corners. In fake games, typically the tell tale signs are that the sticker has squared corners (or improperly rounded corners), lacks glossiness, or is not measured appropriately. This exhibits none of those traits and again looks SNK correct to the naked eye. There is no bubbling or adhesive problems.
Due to the fact that the cartridge I examined is not owned by me, I have not opened the game to check the boards. This would show whether or not the game was an MVS conversion. I will say that typically MVS conversions weigh significantly more than home cartridges. This cartridge is very lightweight which suggests mask ROMs inside. There are no signs of forced entry into the cartridge. There is no visible sticker residue or other abnormalities that might suggest this used to be a Japanese cartridge. Simply put, I have no reason to believe that the game is a Sonic Wings 3 conversion or an MVS conversion. I did test the game, and the cartridge worked flawlessly immediately when powered on without any cartridge jiggling or the usual problems, which is typically indicative of an original SNK product without “custom solderpoints” and the like (a breath of fresh air after a recent playthrough of Bang2 Busters… no offense, NCI!).
5. COLOR DIFFERENCES
One noteworthy observation made of this game is that throughout the color portion of the manual, insert and cartridge sticker, there is a lack of red in the images that results in a slight loss of detail of many of the deep oranges in the fiery cloud behind the plane image, makes the steel “3” in the logo slightly green-toned in comparison to the steel 3 found in the MVS art pack and CD version, and results in the loss of many red and magenta colored details in the image inside the rear cover of the manual that are present in other versions of the game.
In speaking at length with a printing expert about the game, this loss in red can be attributable simply to a different printer (or printer settings) being used to print the materials for this game, or that the printer was low on red ink. It does not necessarily mean that the loss of red was a result of quality loss by scanning or duplication. In fact, with the exception of the red tones, the images throughout remain sharp in comparison to the paper products in Sonic Wings 3 Jpn AES and US Aero Fighters 3 CD.
The cover of the US Aero Fighters 3 CD is the most detailed image with the greatest depth of color of all versions of the game. Both the manual cover and insert of Sonic Wings 3 Jpn exhibit a similar loss in detail of the reds and oranges when compared with the US CD version that is very consistent with Aero Fighters 3 US AES, except that the inside of the rear cover of Sonic Wings 3 Jpn does not have the same loss of fine magenta and red detail.
It should be noted that many games of this era across all formats exhibit some degree of printing anomalies between different versions. Heck, even totally legitimate copies of the same game can be drastically different with regard to print quality (i.e. KOF 95). For example, my Fatal Fury 3 US CD has some substantial differences in color depth in some of the color images compared to my Fatal Fury 3 US AES cartridge. If you look at the inserts for games like Ninja Masters US or even Neo Turf Masters US, the image and print quality vary drastically (and in many ways inferior) to the Japanese versions. As another example, the black and white inner contents of the Japanese Sonic Wings 3 AES are much darker in tone than those of the US CD and US AES manuals.
As an aside, the fact that all the paper components of this game share this anomaly seems to suggest that all of the paper materials were printed at the same time.
There is some more work being done by the appropriate experts to analyze the print further to see what other conclusions can be drawn. Obviously, the immediate tendency in observing a variation like this is to conclude that the game may be fake. As I have explained previously in other sections of the report, I personally believe you have to factor this in along with everything else in forming an opinion, given that we know that multiple print anomalies existed between other official games of the period, and other observations of the game.
V. CONCLUSION
As everyone is well aware, the only real difference between an English and Japanese version of this game come down to just the paper components : the insert, manual and cartridge sticker. Given the big bucks involved with rare AES releases, certainly the motivation would be there for someone to create a perfect fake of this game. And, it must be acknowledged that creating a “perfect fake” is certainly possible, however unlikely that may be, as the technology exists to do it.
The fact that there are print anomalies between this version and other games does not suggest to me that it is fake in light of everything else I have observed. We know of substantial deviations in print methods between not only other games of the period, but even between Sonic Wings 3 Jpn and Aero Fighters 3 US CD. Further, whoever created this game had access to the original art, not only for the main image of the insert and manual cover, but also for inside portions of the manual, as there are things seen here that are obscured or cropped off in all other versions. Despite the deviations, costly offset printing method was used, and the images throughout the entire package still remain of extremely high quality.
Therefore, the question I ask myself in forming my opinion is, if I assume this game in front of me was a home-made fake, what decisions did the counterfeiter make in an effort to fool me?
The amount of knowledge you have to have of what is typical and non-typical of other releases of the era, which would be required to create such a perfect, period-correct version is staggering. Plus, there are many MUCH easier ways to fake this game. Why have an extra 2 mm of space on the top of the manual cover image if you don’t have the original art? Are you really going to bother photoshopping that extra 2mm? Why bother adding pages to the manual and renumbering the entire thing when all other versions of this title are consistent with page numbers and contents? Why take a risk on the white SNK logo? Why waste time with a blue 3 on the spine instead of the 3 on the logo, which could easily be cut and paste? Why make a barcode sticker for the case when not all games of the period have a barcode sticker and it requires an entirely different paper stock with different ink? The list goes on and on and I find myself thinking of new things like this every day.
Also, as an aside, it isn’t really fair to compare this to perfect fakes of games like Kizuna and Ultimate 11. That is because the counterfeiters have originals as reference points to work from, and the originals were made by SNK. SNK did things a certain way throughout different time periods with regard to Neo releases. This one is spot on. I’ve seen lots of people try and make convincing fakes of games with no legitimate reference point and it’s pretty easy to tell in about 5 seconds something that SNK just wouldn’t have done. That is not the case here. To fake a Kizuna only requires detailed printing/copying knowledge. To fake this game not only requires that, but also requires a much greater knowledge of Neo games in general – much more challenging.
There is also something to be said for just holding the damn thing and seeing it in person. It’s hard to convey with text and photos, but I’ll tell you guys that I got the right “vibe” within a few minutes of looking at this thing. My “vibe” probably means nothing to most of you (rightly so), but I will say that if like me you have come across hundreds of AES games (including dozens of fakes) you do develop a certain sense for this stuff, and I felt like my opinion was formed almost instantly on this one, and my subsequent analysis didn’t change my thinking.
Before I finish, I know the history and provenance of this game is important, and I’m sorry it isn’t discussed more in my report. I am still piecing that together myself and I didn’t want it to hold up my analysis of the cartridge. When I have more information, I certainly look forward to sharing it with you guys. That said, there is nothing I know or have been told about the history of the game that changes my opinion as of now. I must add that the insinuation by some that TonK or myself were/are somehow in cahoots with the original owner to scam a bunch of people with fake carts is ridiculous. TonK notified me about this very early on and finally getting a copy for either of us to look at was quite a long and tedious process. But that’s another story.
Objectively speaking, nobody can say with absolute certainty that this game is authentic without themselves having been physically present in SNK’s factory when the game was made and assembled. That being said, after considering all of the evidence above, I personally have zero doubt when saying that the game is absolutely authentic and SNK official. I recognize that, at the end of the day, this is just my opinion, and the community and future owners will have an opportunity to weigh in. Whether the game actually made it to store shelves is unknown and is really a different issue altogether, but some quantity was certainly produced by SNK. Unless additional information presents itself in the coming months that changes my thinking, my personal conclusion is this: By virtue of SNK having produced the game in official packaging, it will be added (correction… “reinstated”) to the Neo Geo Master List with the next revision (coming soon!) as an official SNK product.
It’s an exciting time to be an English Neo Geo AES fan! Wherever you come down on this, I hope you enjoyed this analysis. Thanks for reading, everyone!
PS – This whole thing was a LOT of work for everyone involved… and I must say THANK YOU to those of you in the community who have given me your time to help me with this project! I’m not going to name everyone, but you know who you are… A lot of you really bent over backwards to help me out, and I appreciate it!
THE END
3. MANUAL.
The manual came in the standard typical manual baggie which appeared to be in new condition.
Most serious AES collectors worldwide agree that the telltale signs of a fake manual concern 1) the location and type of staples and 2) the “puffiness” of the manual. This is something bootleggers have a very hard time getting right. So here is the good news. The staples are correctly positioned and the manual “puffiness” is spot on with other SNK games. NGF couldn’t even get this right with their KOF 2000. The spine of the manual also exhibits similar creasing as to other manuals of similar size and thickness.
The cover of the manual (and really the entire manual itself) follows closely with the Aero Fighters 2 manual. It uses the correct fonts and the black border on the left side is correct for the period. The image, game logo, and copyright are positioned exactly the same as the US Aero Fighters 3 CD manual. HOWEVER, there is more of the fireball image on the top of the manual than is shown on the CD manual. That means either 1) the same digital source image was used but was digitally cropped in a different place, or 2) somebody took the time to scan and copy the CD manual, but Photoshop about 2 millimeters at the very top to create that much of the additional fireball graphic. Unlikely.
The inside of the manual cover has a large, bright and colorful Aero Fighters 3 logo exclaiming “Passing through time, SONIC Fighters prepare to fight World War II.” There is then at the bottom a thank you for purchasing the “Neo Geo Cassette AEROFIGHTERS 3” which is written in perfect SNK Engrish. To my knowledge, this page does not exist in other versions of this game.
The epilepsy warning card is correct and snug with the rest of the manual. Generally speaking, the contents of the manual are well-centered and neatly cropped. The pages appear to me to be of the correct paper weight and type and the opacity is correct (ie you can see through the pages to whats on the back of each page rather easily). The images throughout are detailed and of very high quality.
This manual is different than other games in that it treats the inside cover as page 2 and goes from there. The contents of the manual have many similarities with the CD version but there are different contents here and there (again, which are consistent with other games of the period). This results in different page numbers between this and the US CD version. Even Dion, an expert at “correcting” games, didn’t go through the time to add a bunch of content and renumber all the pages in his fake manual he posted pictures of. Why not? Because it’s a lot of work for nothing. When there is no original to compare to, why create additional work for yourself if you are counterfeiting the game? The work would extend to creating new page number symbols in the correct font for the additional pages that went beyond the number of pages in the CD manual. Just about every page has a different number than the other manual.
The page numbering is important for a different reason. The game following this one, Samurai 3, has identical page numbering between the US and Jap AES versions. The game right before this one, Stakes Winner, has TOTALLY different manuals entirely between the AES versions. So why would SNK do it this way for this game? I think the answer lies in Aero Fighters 2, which numbers the pages in exactly the same manner! Rather unique among other games of this period. If you compare Aero Fighters 2 and 3 manuals, they are really strikingly similar in layout and design.
The contents of the manual are cropped in slightly different places than in the Sonic Wings 3 Jpn AES and Aero Fighters 3 US CD manuals. This is within normal measurement tolerances for other games of the era. Significantly, in at least one instant, there is additional art shown in the US AES version manual that is slightly cropped off in the other versions of the game.
The back of the manual has the Neo Geo logo (correct) and the correct NGH number for the game in the upper right. The warning box in the top left is very typical of many games of the era. However, it should be noted that this box includes the “rented of sold” misprint that is common to some 1995 games, but not others. The Aero Fighters 3 CD has corrected this error which seems to suggest to me that these 2 manuals were printed at different times. Again, this is the type of thing that a counterfeiter would have to be extremely clever to include.
To protect the owners of the game at their request, I cannot provide any further photographs/scan of the inside of the manual.
4. CARTRIDGE.
The cartridge is standard SNK make in near-mint/like new condition. The PCB contacts were bright and corrosion-free. There was no gold warning sticker or residue from a gold warning sticker (a la NGF KOF 2k). This is correct of the period as this title was pre-gold warning stickers.
Onto the sticker. The sticker appears to be of the same stock as other typical SNK stickers. The colors and image of the sticker are bright and the image and font resolutions appear correct. There are very small dots visible in the neo geo logo at the top of the sticker which is correct for the period. The Neo Geo logo is of appropriate dimensions. Many 1995 games have a “stretched looking” Neo Geo logo on the top of the sticker, but this game does not. The measurements of the sticker are spot on with rounded corners. In fake games, typically the tell tale signs are that the sticker has squared corners (or improperly rounded corners), lacks glossiness, or is not measured appropriately. This exhibits none of those traits and again looks SNK correct to the naked eye. There is no bubbling or adhesive problems.
Due to the fact that the cartridge I examined is not owned by me, I have not opened the game to check the boards. This would show whether or not the game was an MVS conversion. I will say that typically MVS conversions weigh significantly more than home cartridges. This cartridge is very lightweight which suggests mask ROMs inside. There are no signs of forced entry into the cartridge. There is no visible sticker residue or other abnormalities that might suggest this used to be a Japanese cartridge. Simply put, I have no reason to believe that the game is a Sonic Wings 3 conversion or an MVS conversion. I did test the game, and the cartridge worked flawlessly immediately when powered on without any cartridge jiggling or the usual problems, which is typically indicative of an original SNK product without “custom solderpoints” and the like (a breath of fresh air after a recent playthrough of Bang2 Busters… no offense, NCI!).
5. COLOR DIFFERENCES
One noteworthy observation made of this game is that throughout the color portion of the manual, insert and cartridge sticker, there is a lack of red in the images that results in a slight loss of detail of many of the deep oranges in the fiery cloud behind the plane image, makes the steel “3” in the logo slightly green-toned in comparison to the steel 3 found in the MVS art pack and CD version, and results in the loss of many red and magenta colored details in the image inside the rear cover of the manual that are present in other versions of the game.
In speaking at length with a printing expert about the game, this loss in red can be attributable simply to a different printer (or printer settings) being used to print the materials for this game, or that the printer was low on red ink. It does not necessarily mean that the loss of red was a result of quality loss by scanning or duplication. In fact, with the exception of the red tones, the images throughout remain sharp in comparison to the paper products in Sonic Wings 3 Jpn AES and US Aero Fighters 3 CD.
The cover of the US Aero Fighters 3 CD is the most detailed image with the greatest depth of color of all versions of the game. Both the manual cover and insert of Sonic Wings 3 Jpn exhibit a similar loss in detail of the reds and oranges when compared with the US CD version that is very consistent with Aero Fighters 3 US AES, except that the inside of the rear cover of Sonic Wings 3 Jpn does not have the same loss of fine magenta and red detail.
It should be noted that many games of this era across all formats exhibit some degree of printing anomalies between different versions. Heck, even totally legitimate copies of the same game can be drastically different with regard to print quality (i.e. KOF 95). For example, my Fatal Fury 3 US CD has some substantial differences in color depth in some of the color images compared to my Fatal Fury 3 US AES cartridge. If you look at the inserts for games like Ninja Masters US or even Neo Turf Masters US, the image and print quality vary drastically (and in many ways inferior) to the Japanese versions. As another example, the black and white inner contents of the Japanese Sonic Wings 3 AES are much darker in tone than those of the US CD and US AES manuals.
As an aside, the fact that all the paper components of this game share this anomaly seems to suggest that all of the paper materials were printed at the same time.
There is some more work being done by the appropriate experts to analyze the print further to see what other conclusions can be drawn. Obviously, the immediate tendency in observing a variation like this is to conclude that the game may be fake. As I have explained previously in other sections of the report, I personally believe you have to factor this in along with everything else in forming an opinion, given that we know that multiple print anomalies existed between other official games of the period, and other observations of the game.
V. CONCLUSION
As everyone is well aware, the only real difference between an English and Japanese version of this game come down to just the paper components : the insert, manual and cartridge sticker. Given the big bucks involved with rare AES releases, certainly the motivation would be there for someone to create a perfect fake of this game. And, it must be acknowledged that creating a “perfect fake” is certainly possible, however unlikely that may be, as the technology exists to do it.
The fact that there are print anomalies between this version and other games does not suggest to me that it is fake in light of everything else I have observed. We know of substantial deviations in print methods between not only other games of the period, but even between Sonic Wings 3 Jpn and Aero Fighters 3 US CD. Further, whoever created this game had access to the original art, not only for the main image of the insert and manual cover, but also for inside portions of the manual, as there are things seen here that are obscured or cropped off in all other versions. Despite the deviations, costly offset printing method was used, and the images throughout the entire package still remain of extremely high quality.
Therefore, the question I ask myself in forming my opinion is, if I assume this game in front of me was a home-made fake, what decisions did the counterfeiter make in an effort to fool me?
The amount of knowledge you have to have of what is typical and non-typical of other releases of the era, which would be required to create such a perfect, period-correct version is staggering. Plus, there are many MUCH easier ways to fake this game. Why have an extra 2 mm of space on the top of the manual cover image if you don’t have the original art? Are you really going to bother photoshopping that extra 2mm? Why bother adding pages to the manual and renumbering the entire thing when all other versions of this title are consistent with page numbers and contents? Why take a risk on the white SNK logo? Why waste time with a blue 3 on the spine instead of the 3 on the logo, which could easily be cut and paste? Why make a barcode sticker for the case when not all games of the period have a barcode sticker and it requires an entirely different paper stock with different ink? The list goes on and on and I find myself thinking of new things like this every day.
Also, as an aside, it isn’t really fair to compare this to perfect fakes of games like Kizuna and Ultimate 11. That is because the counterfeiters have originals as reference points to work from, and the originals were made by SNK. SNK did things a certain way throughout different time periods with regard to Neo releases. This one is spot on. I’ve seen lots of people try and make convincing fakes of games with no legitimate reference point and it’s pretty easy to tell in about 5 seconds something that SNK just wouldn’t have done. That is not the case here. To fake a Kizuna only requires detailed printing/copying knowledge. To fake this game not only requires that, but also requires a much greater knowledge of Neo games in general – much more challenging.
There is also something to be said for just holding the damn thing and seeing it in person. It’s hard to convey with text and photos, but I’ll tell you guys that I got the right “vibe” within a few minutes of looking at this thing. My “vibe” probably means nothing to most of you (rightly so), but I will say that if like me you have come across hundreds of AES games (including dozens of fakes) you do develop a certain sense for this stuff, and I felt like my opinion was formed almost instantly on this one, and my subsequent analysis didn’t change my thinking.
Before I finish, I know the history and provenance of this game is important, and I’m sorry it isn’t discussed more in my report. I am still piecing that together myself and I didn’t want it to hold up my analysis of the cartridge. When I have more information, I certainly look forward to sharing it with you guys. That said, there is nothing I know or have been told about the history of the game that changes my opinion as of now. I must add that the insinuation by some that TonK or myself were/are somehow in cahoots with the original owner to scam a bunch of people with fake carts is ridiculous. TonK notified me about this very early on and finally getting a copy for either of us to look at was quite a long and tedious process. But that’s another story.
Objectively speaking, nobody can say with absolute certainty that this game is authentic without themselves having been physically present in SNK’s factory when the game was made and assembled. That being said, after considering all of the evidence above, I personally have zero doubt when saying that the game is absolutely authentic and SNK official. I recognize that, at the end of the day, this is just my opinion, and the community and future owners will have an opportunity to weigh in. Whether the game actually made it to store shelves is unknown and is really a different issue altogether, but some quantity was certainly produced by SNK. Unless additional information presents itself in the coming months that changes my thinking, my personal conclusion is this: By virtue of SNK having produced the game in official packaging, it will be added (correction… “reinstated”) to the Neo Geo Master List with the next revision (coming soon!) as an official SNK product.
It’s an exciting time to be an English Neo Geo AES fan! Wherever you come down on this, I hope you enjoyed this analysis. Thanks for reading, everyone!
PS – This whole thing was a LOT of work for everyone involved… and I must say THANK YOU to those of you in the community who have given me your time to help me with this project! I’m not going to name everyone, but you know who you are… A lot of you really bent over backwards to help me out, and I appreciate it!
THE END
(by the way, if someday a smoking gun comes along that proves me wrong about all of this, I’ll remind myself that this is a 16 year old video game that we’re talking about, and I will man up and own it for you doubters out there. but… I don’t think that’s going to happen. ☺ )
Now that this thing is wrapping up, I want to make a few more comments.
The process to obtain this game, like Geddon said, was very time consuming and full of issues that would drive you crazy.
Everything was handled professionally.
Special thanks go out to:
- John Thacker (Geddon_jt)
- Billy Pitt (SuperGun)
- Kurt Pyron (terry.330)
- Mikhail Kiselgof (Kiselgof)
These guys were my lifeline throughout this whole process.
There were times I wanted to give up.
John and I have personally spoken to the "source" and have zero reasons to doubt him. But those reasons must remain confidential.
Maybe one day, the source will reveal himself to the community.
Then the whole story can come out.
You guys have to understand that this guy wants his privacy and looks forward to bringing other news to the community in the coming months.
One of the announcements will please quite a few of you. Trust me on that.
Details are sketchy right now, but Mikhail plans to fly in to Youngstown where he and I will travel to the "source" and compile a stock list and offer some games for sale.
It's true, you really have to see the game in person to really "grasp" what we are describing.
Thanks to the majority of the community for having an open mind about this.
I realize that only a select few can own this title, but how many of you have KE and U11?
Maybe down the line, we can offer some stock that the "source" has.
The process to obtain this game, like Geddon said, was very time consuming and full of issues that would drive you crazy.
Everything was handled professionally.
Special thanks go out to:
- John Thacker (Geddon_jt)
- Billy Pitt (SuperGun)
- Kurt Pyron (terry.330)
- Mikhail Kiselgof (Kiselgof)
These guys were my lifeline throughout this whole process.
There were times I wanted to give up.
John and I have personally spoken to the "source" and have zero reasons to doubt him. But those reasons must remain confidential.
Maybe one day, the source will reveal himself to the community.
Then the whole story can come out.
You guys have to understand that this guy wants his privacy and looks forward to bringing other news to the community in the coming months.
One of the announcements will please quite a few of you. Trust me on that.
Details are sketchy right now, but Mikhail plans to fly in to Youngstown where he and I will travel to the "source" and compile a stock list and offer some games for sale.
It's true, you really have to see the game in person to really "grasp" what we are describing.
Thanks to the majority of the community for having an open mind about this.
I realize that only a select few can own this title, but how many of you have KE and U11?
Maybe down the line, we can offer some stock that the "source" has.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2003
- Posts
- 20,436
Geddon...thank you for your detailed analysis of the game. It is greatly appreciated.
TonK...what else can I say? I think you handled the whole thing quite well and hopefully in the near future, we'll be able to learn more and will look forward to any future announcements similar to this. Continue to keep up informed and to the others contributing to this project...thank you. To everyone that posted here...keep teh drama alive
TonK...what else can I say? I think you handled the whole thing quite well and hopefully in the near future, we'll be able to learn more and will look forward to any future announcements similar to this. Continue to keep up informed and to the others contributing to this project...thank you. To everyone that posted here...keep teh drama alive
Tyranix95
Chang's Grocer
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
- Posts
- 4,593
Thanks for Pt. #3, Geddon_jt--Very interesting read--Looking forward to the supplemental report.
------------------------------
And can't wait to read your next news thread, TonK.
Last edited:
Professor Denim
Atro Ego
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2005
- Posts
- 1,624
Thanks for part 3!that was a great read. I'm not sure if i'm 100% convinced (it's not me who has to be anyway), but i'm much more than i was at the beginning of this thread.Or maybe i'm just jealous...
Gongrats on the buyers! and Tonk (Thonk) for the sell. Amazing find! Honestly i can't wait for those News. Some time ago you said this year would be exciting for the Neo, i guess you were right. So far so good.
Thanks for the ride
Gongrats on the buyers! and Tonk (Thonk) for the sell. Amazing find! Honestly i can't wait for those News. Some time ago you said this year would be exciting for the Neo, i guess you were right. So far so good.
Thanks for the ride
SetaSouji??
There Can be Only One
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2009
- Posts
- 4,158
Bravo sir.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
- Posts
- 23,960
All that effort for a different sticker,manual and insert. I really am among likeminded people.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Posts
- 8,203
I myself didn't need a confirmation report but it was very nice to read. Great info and anyone still doubting it is real will probably remain sceptic.
I'll bet that when an SNK official would clame it to be real they would say he was bribed or something.
There was also something that FTL said that made no sense to me. According to him Geddon-it's opinion and report aren't good enough because he never had a complete homecart collection and therefore can be no expert.
Yeah like a Ferrari expert owns every model there is.
My gf's dad is a VW expert and one of the best VW mechanics in general, he got sent to russia to educate a few mechanics about a VW transporter and they wanted the best one available, he owns only one VW though. So according to FTL he can't be an expert then?
I'll bet that when an SNK official would clame it to be real they would say he was bribed or something.
There was also something that FTL said that made no sense to me. According to him Geddon-it's opinion and report aren't good enough because he never had a complete homecart collection and therefore can be no expert.
Yeah like a Ferrari expert owns every model there is.
My gf's dad is a VW expert and one of the best VW mechanics in general, he got sent to russia to educate a few mechanics about a VW transporter and they wanted the best one available, he owns only one VW though. So according to FTL he can't be an expert then?
Great find Tonk and what a hilarious read, especially the Last Odyssey thread. 
Out of curiosity, and maybe those who know the complete manufacturing process at SNK could shed some light on this, but did SNK ever make a handful of final "test products" (like a fully working pre-release copy that's indistinguishable from the mass produced product) before going ahead and doing the manufacturing on a large lot of cartridges?
Just from reading this thread, this find just comes off to me like something that was nearly at the stage of being mass produced but for whatever reason never made that final step.
Out of curiosity, and maybe those who know the complete manufacturing process at SNK could shed some light on this, but did SNK ever make a handful of final "test products" (like a fully working pre-release copy that's indistinguishable from the mass produced product) before going ahead and doing the manufacturing on a large lot of cartridges?
Just from reading this thread, this find just comes off to me like something that was nearly at the stage of being mass produced but for whatever reason never made that final step.
Last edited:
mahesak
Morden's Lackey
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2005
- Posts
- 352
Although my english is weak and not good but I appreciate very much for great report. Many reasons in report to prove AF3 is legit very clear and I thought the owner can be proud for this legend cart 
Thank again for everyone who involve this topic and take nice things come to neo-geo world. Although I will come from a little country but I am very exciting for this big discovery. I thought this topic will be number one best topic of the year 2012
Thank again for everyone who involve this topic and take nice things come to neo-geo world. Although I will come from a little country but I am very exciting for this big discovery. I thought this topic will be number one best topic of the year 2012
- Status