Tenant/Landlord Responsibilities/Liabilities for Repairs

lithy · Dec 1, 2011

So, just need some advice.

Came home today, heat is out. My house is managed by a realty company not the owner. It was after their closing hours and I don't really think this qualifies as an 'emergency'. It is still in the 60s in the house, not miserable yet.

ANYWAY, since I figure I will call tomorrow, I'm not sure if they will get anyone out tomorrow and even if they do, I fully expect they won't do any more than a diagnosis tomorrow, then parts ordering, and I think I'm looking at early to mid next week at the earliest before having this thing repaired.

So, I started my own troubleshooting. I've basically got the problem narrowed down to a bad PCB on the unit causing the blower motor to not come on, so when the gas lights, the air doesn't move, it overheats and auto-shuts down.

My question is this. I call the property manager tomorrow, despite having an idea of what the issue is, I don't really think I should tell them that I've been messing with the furnace. I surely don't want to be blamed for 'breaking' it and charged for any repairs. The part though is 150+ bucks and I'm surely not fixing this myself (as in out of pocket).

At the same time, I want this fixed quickly. I have thought about taking the PCB out and attempting to fix whatever bad solder joints are causing the failure, but again, HVAC tech comes in, finds a PCB that has been amateurishly soldered, I don't want the blame.

This is the first time I've ever had a company for a property manager, if it was a single landlord, I would feel more comfortable about being honest, letting them know I can fix it, and just wanting a credit for the parts off next months rent. Right now though I don't know how to best handle this.

Issues? Possible problems I'm getting myself into? Comments?

Alright, enough rambling, thanks for reading.

SouthtownKid · Dec 1, 2011

Contact the realty company. You might as well do it right now. Most places will at least let you leave a message after hours, so even if there is no one there now, they'll be able to get on it first thing tomorrow. Then you can call them again tomorrow if you want.

Do NOT attempt to fix it yourself. Don't tell them what you think is wrong with it. Don't give them any hint you've messed around with it at all. When the repair guy comes, you can maybe tell him directly. Use your judgment. But by all that is holy, don't let the management company know you've poked around with it at all. Nothing good will come of that.

SSS · Dec 1, 2011

DO NOT FUCK, with a gas furnace. Seriously man. I worked / repaired them for the last 4 years. Those PCB's are not field serviceable. Even if it's just a shot relay on the board, the service tech will replace the whole thing. Not worth blowing yourself up over.

Call the landlord and raise hell. Don't even tell them you poked around in the damn thing. Most states require a special license to even look at a furnace unit.

lithy · Dec 1, 2011

SouthtownKid said:
Contact the realty company. You might as well do it right now. Most places will at least let you leave a message after hours, so even if there is no one there now, they'll be able to get on it first thing tomorrow. Then you can call them again tomorrow if you want.

Do NOT attempt to fix it yourself. Don't tell them what you think is wrong with it. Don't give them any hint you've messed around with it at all. When the repair guy comes, you can maybe tell him directly. Use your judgment. But by all that is holy, don't let the management company know you've poked around with it at all. Nothing good will come of that.

That's basically what I figured. Damn. I just want it fixed quicker and that seems to be the best way to do it. Oh well. Time to bust out the blankets.

SamuraiShodownSensei said:
DO NOT FUCK, with a gas furnace. Seriously man. I worked / repaired them for the last 4 years. Those PCB's are not field serviceable. Even if it's just a shot relay on the board, the service tech will replace the whole thing. Not worth blowing yourself up over.

Call the landlord and raise hell. Don't even tell them you poked around in the damn thing. Most states require a special license to even look at a furnace unit.

I must not live in one of those states then, because I look at the thing every time I'm in the basement doing laundry.

No offense either, but if this was my place. I would be opening it up just the same.

SSS · Dec 1, 2011

Have you tried setting the Fan to "ON" on the thermostat? not leaving it in auto?

lithy · Dec 1, 2011

SamuraiShodownSensei said:
Have you tried setting the Fan to "ON" on the thermostat? not leaving it in auto?

Yeah, still doesn't come on in either mode. I jumpered the blower motor connectors to a different source on the PCB (method from some internet thread) and it powered on, the blower motor ran this way.

SSS · Dec 1, 2011

lithy said:
Yeah, still doesn't come on in either mode. I jumpered the blower motor connectors to a different source on the PCB (method from some internet thread) and it powered on, the blower motor ran this way.

Yeah, the fan relay on the board is probably toast. It's probably in a row with a few others, should be a little black plastic box. You might even see it swollen a little or it's entirely possible on the underside a solder connection broke loose (or you might see some charring) and just needs to be reflowed. Again, I'm not telling you to attempt any repairs.

evil wasabi · Dec 1, 2011

lithy said:
So, just need some advice.

Came home today, heat is out. My house is managed by a realty company not the owner. It was after their closing hours and I don't really think this qualifies as an 'emergency'. It is still in the 60s in the house, not miserable yet.

ANYWAY, since I figure I will call tomorrow, I'm not sure if they will get anyone out tomorrow and even if they do, I fully expect they won't do any more than a diagnosis tomorrow, then parts ordering, and I think I'm looking at early to mid next week at the earliest before having this thing repaired.

So, I started my own troubleshooting. I've basically got the problem narrowed down to a bad PCB on the unit causing the blower motor to not come on, so when the gas lights, the air doesn't move, it overheats and auto-shuts down.

My question is this. I call the property manager tomorrow, despite having an idea of what the issue is, I don't really think I should tell them that I've been messing with the furnace. I surely don't want to be blamed for 'breaking' it and charged for any repairs. The part though is 150+ bucks and I'm surely not fixing this myself (as in out of pocket).

At the same time, I want this fixed quickly. I have thought about taking the PCB out and attempting to fix whatever bad solder joints are causing the failure, but again, HVAC tech comes in, finds a PCB that has been amateurishly soldered, I don't want the blame.

This is the first time I've ever had a company for a property manager, if it was a single landlord, I would feel more comfortable about being honest, letting them know I can fix it, and just wanting a credit for the parts off next months rent. Right now though I don't know how to best handle this.

Issues? Possible problems I'm getting myself into? Comments?

Alright, enough rambling, thanks for reading.

Legally, the landlord has to provide a house that offers heating. Pretty sure that is the case in PA. If you were to alert them and they fail to fix it in a reasonable time, you can pay for it and they would be obligated by law to compensate you.

lithy · Dec 1, 2011

SamuraiShodownSensei said:
Yeah, the fan relay on the board is probably toast. It's probably in a row with a few others, should be a little black plastic box. You might even see it swollen a little or it's entirely possible on the underside a solder connection broke loose (or you might see some charring) and just needs to be reflowed. Again, I'm not telling you to attempt any repairs.

Thanks for the help. For tonight, I put the thing all back together and call the property manager tomorrow. If it won't be fixed for a few days I might see if I can get the PCB out, right now it is encased in a pretty ridiculous plastic housing except for a few exposed connectors.

SSS · Dec 2, 2011

If the fan can be jumped to run constantly, your heat should work fine until repairs can be made.

I mean I've done that in the past as a temporary fix. Again, I'm not saying you should do this.

RabbitTroop · Dec 2, 2011

Just call the management company tomorrow. If they don't think it is going to get fixed in a timely manner, ask if they have any space heaters in storage you can borrow until they get it repaired. A single space heater in the bedroom should get you through cold nights. If they don't, it probably wouldn't be a horrible idea to own one yourself. They're relatively cheap and probably would cost a lot less to power than heating the whole house anyway. I'm not really sure what the problem is and why there are so many replies to this thread. My ADD won't let me bother reading them all, but I wouldn't tinker too much with the unit and just let them come out in fix it. If something gets damaged they'll likely hit you hard on repairing it.

lithy · Dec 2, 2011

nruva said:
Just call the management company tomorrow. If they don't think it is going to get fixed in a timely manner, ask if they have any space heaters in storage you can borrow until they get it repaired. A single space heater in the bedroom should get you through cold nights. If they don't, it probably wouldn't be a horrible idea to own one yourself. They're relatively cheap and probably would cost a lot less to power than heating the whole house anyway. I'm not really sure what the problem is and why there are so many replies to this thread. My ADD won't let me bother reading them all, but I wouldn't tinker too much with the unit and just let them come out in fix it. If something gets damaged they'll likely hit you hard on repairing it.

We actually do have one of those little hot oil radiator type heater things. It makes enough smelly heat for one room.

The guy came today, after letting him tinker around with it for a while and not getting anywhere new, I just told him what I had figured out. He pulled the board, hardwired it like I had done last night to confirm the blower works. The board has a burnt out contact underneath the blower motor relay. So, he is going to try to find parts tomorrow and replace the board and the capacitor just in case.

He took the board with him though, otherwise I'd be tinkering with it tonight.

HeartlessNinny · Dec 2, 2011

I appreciate a hands-on attitude, and I like to tinker with things myself (with varying success). But I probably wouldn't fool around with a gas furnace... But hey, that's me.

Good luck, lith. Hope it isn't too cold in your parts. It's been a bit unseasonably cold here for the last few weeks... Like in the 40s. Usually it doesn't get too chilly 'til January.

NeoCverA · Dec 2, 2011

Go buy a cheap electric heater you cheap fuck. It will be yours forever and ever.

RabbitTroop · Dec 3, 2011

lithy said:
We actually do have one of those little hot oil radiator type heater things. It makes enough smelly heat for one room.

The guy came today, after letting him tinker around with it for a while and not getting anywhere new, I just told him what I had figured out. He pulled the board, hardwired it like I had done last night to confirm the blower works. The board has a burnt out contact underneath the blower motor relay. So, he is going to try to find parts tomorrow and replace the board and the capacitor just in case.

He took the board with him though, otherwise I'd be tinkering with it tonight.

I've never used one of the oil ones. I had no idea they smelled. I've used these before:
http://www.amazon.com/Lasko-755320-..._3?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1322893214&sr=1-3

They're silent, get wicked hot and are smell free. I've seen them at Osh/Home Depot/Lowes for about $35 from time to time. Anyway, sounds like they're going to take care of you quickly (which they should). What's the temperature like there now anyway? Mildly chilly? It's 39 here right now, thanks to the wind we've been having. We had up to 97MPH winds two nights ago. Massive amount of damage to the area. It literally looks like a hurricane hit us (and in a sense, one did). Giant trees all over the place came down. Luckily we didn't lose power. It's 70 inside, though, thanks mostly because our days are warm and sunny still, even though the nights are getting pretty chilly. Ah well, that's Southern California, for you.

lithy · Dec 3, 2011

Yeah I haven't looked, but I'm thinking mid to high 30s at night and low to mid 50s during the day. Better it goes out at the beginning of December than the middle of January I guess. The house is pretty chilly at the moment, reading at the bottom of the thermostat which says 50 so might be colder than that, but we're camped out in the front room.

I didn't hear anything about that storm, sounds crazy.

SouthtownKid · Dec 3, 2011

lithy said:
I didn't hear anything about that storm, sounds crazy.

Pretty crazy for here. People's hair getting mussed up and everything.

arbormatt · Dec 3, 2011

lithy said:
At the same time, I want this fixed quickly. I have thought about taking the PCB out and attempting to fix whatever bad solder joints are causing the failure, but again, HVAC tech comes in, finds a PCB that has been amateurishly soldered, I don't want the blame.

This is the first time I've ever had a company for a property manager, if it was a single landlord, I would feel more comfortable about being honest, letting them know I can fix it, and just wanting a credit for the parts off next months rent. Right now though I don't know how to best handle this.

Issues? Possible problems I'm getting myself into? Comments?

Alright, enough rambling, thanks for reading.

I used to be a service tech for an HVAC company and now I am in a semi related field. I don't know any service techs that would try and repair the board. A PCB is an easy swap and almost any decent HVAC company should have your board on hand if the furnance is a semi known brand. I have kept a few bad boards and repaired them for my own amusement.

Do not attempt a fix yourself. Check your lease, they may have grounds to evict you if you are tampering with their equipment. If they don't get this resolved quickly call the fire department or gas company and have them come out. They will probably do a lock out/red tag on your furnance and then your management company(depending on your lease provisions and state law) will have to fix t. Keep absolutely everything in writing and all the documentation. If you havent paid rent yet, I probably wouldn't untill the issue is fixed. Make sure you keep the money in the bank and are able to prove that you are willing to pay as long as the issue is resolved.

cdamm · Dec 3, 2011

depending on your relationship with your landlord (property management company), some may let you just call in the repair yourself and deduct the cost of the repair from the rent with the receipt. I know at my last apartment before i bought my house which was run by a management company when the washer died and the repair guy said it was dead, i offered to get a new one minus the rent (they said it would be a week until they could get a new one). I did a little research and stayed within the budget they gave me and was able to have my problem fixed faster then they were able to.

SonGohan · Dec 3, 2011

They have to have an emergency number to call (and, yes, this is an emergency).

aria · Dec 4, 2011

Agent Sands said:
Legally, the landlord has to provide a house that offers heating. Pretty sure that is the case in PA. If you were to alert them and they fail to fix it in a reasonable time, you can pay for it and they would be obligated by law to compensate you.

Don't you love when good advice is blown off?

evil wasabi · Dec 4, 2011

aria said:
Don't you love when good advice is blown off?

Next time I'll tell him to google the pinout for the pcb and post links for good deals on soldering irons.

lithy · Dec 4, 2011

aria said:
Don't you love when good advice is blown off?

He forgot IANYL...

Edit: In any case, I did note his advice. I just didn't have anything to reply to it with. The issue was resolved by Saturday around noon which seemed like more than a reasonable amount of time to me.

evil wasabi · Dec 4, 2011

lithy said:
He forgot IANYL...

Edit: In any case, I did note his advice. I just didn't have anything to reply to it with. The issue was resolved by Saturday around noon which seemed like more than a reasonable amount of time to me.

That's good to hear.

HeartlessNinny · Dec 4, 2011

Just what does IANYL abbreviate, anyway?

Tenant/Landlord Responsibilities/Liabilities for Repairs

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

There are four lights

neo retired

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

neo retired

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

neo retired

The Jongmaster

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

neo retired

Mayor of Southtown, ,

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

Heartlessness is a virtue

My Sub Name

Mayor of Southtown, ,

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

There are four lights

Galford's Armourer

Trust the French?

Made of Wood

Former Moderator

The Jongmaster

LoneSage: lithy is just some degenerate scumbag

The Jongmaster

Heartlessness is a virtue