Should possession of child porn lead to life without parole?

aria

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Is it therefore like murder?

In a number of places being guilty of actually molesting a child might get a lighter sentence.

When we talk about punishment, we think of the crime: killing, raping, stealing, etc. No doubt we outlaw the possession of child porn for a good reason (at least in eyes of general society, which I agree with) --but do we punish these people that hard? Is it a disease? Sometimes it's wise to not let emotion get too much a handle on sentencing.

Lots of intriguing questions.

Interesting article below, based on an equally interesting blog post here.

November 4, 2011
Life Sentence for Possession of Child Pornography Spurs Debate Over Severity
By ERICA GOODE - NY Times

Does downloading child pornography from the Internet deserve the same criminal punishment as first-degree murder?

A circuit court judge in Florida clearly thinks so: On Thursday, he sentenced Daniel Enrique Guevara Vilca, a 26-year-old stockroom worker whose home computer was found to contain hundreds of pornographic images of children, to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

But the severity of the justice meted out to Mr. Vilca, who had no previous criminal record, has led some criminal justice experts to question whether increasingly harsh penalties delivered in cases involving the viewing of pornography really fit the crime. Had Mr. Vilca actually molested a child, they note, he might well have received a lighter sentence.

“To me, a failure to distinguish between people who look at these dirty pictures and people who commit contact offenses lacks the nuance and proportionality I think our law demands,” said Douglas Berman, a law professor at Ohio State University, who highlighted Mr. Vilca’s case on his blog, Sentencing and Law Policy.

Sexual offenses involving children enrage most Americans, and lawmakers have not hesitated to impose lengthy prison terms for offenders. In Florida, possession of child pornography is a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison. Mr. Vilca was charged with 454 counts of possession, each count representing one image found on the computer.

Steve Maresca, the assistant state attorney in the case, said that in his view, Mr. Vilca “received a sentence pursuant to the sentencing guidelines.”

“Too many people just look at this as a victimless crime, and that’s not true,” he said. “These children are victimized, and when the images are shown over and over again, they’re victimized over and over again.”

But Lee Hollander, Mr. Vilca’s lawyer, called the sentence ridiculous.

“Daniel had nothing to do with the original victimization of these people; there is no evidence that he’s ever touched anybody improperly, adult or minor; and life in prison for looking at images, even child images, is beyond comprehension,” he said.

Mr. Hollander said Mr. Vilca had consistently said he did not know the images were on his computer. He refused a plea bargain of 20 years in prison, after which the state attorney increased the charges. The sentence will be appealed, Mr. Hollander said.

Troy K. Stabenow, an assistant federal public defender in Missouri’s Western District, noted that most people assume that someone who looks at child pornography is also a child molester or will become a child molester, a view often mirrored by judges.

But a growing body of scientific research shows that this is not the case, he said. Many passive viewers of child pornography never molest children, and not all child molesters have a penchant for pornography.

“I’m not suggesting that someone who looks at child pornography should just walk,” he said. “But we ought to punish people for what they do, not for our fear.”

State and federal laws, which generally increase penalties based on the number of pornographic images, reflect the idea that acquiring child pornography requires extensive time and effort and thus is a measure of a defendant’s involvement and interest. But with the rise of the Internet, it is possible to download hundreds of images in a matter of minutes, making the size of a stash a less than reliable indicator, Mr. Stabenow and other criminal justice experts said. It is now a rare case that does not involve the possession of hundreds, or even thousands, of images.

As a result, many federal judges have issued sentences lower than those called for by federal guidelines, which add months for multiple images and other aggravating factors. And even when such sentencing enhancements are enforced, the sentences — which can sometimes be 18 or 20 years — are often well below what Mr. Vilca received. The federal guidelines, for example, recommend a minimum of 57 to 71 months in prison for possession of 600 or more images of very young children.

Paul Cassell, a former federal judge who is now a law professor at the University of Utah, said there was no question that “consumers of child pornography drive the market for the production of child pornography, and without people to consume this stuff there wouldn’t be nearly as many children being sexually abused.”

Mr. Cassell is involved in efforts to get restitution for victims of child pornography, and has filed a petition in one case with the Supreme Court. But he said that while he was not familiar with Mr. Vilca’s case and did not know what other facts might be involved, “in the abstract, a life sentence for the crime of solely possessing child pornography would seem to be excessive.”

“A life sentence is what we give first-degree murderers,” he said, “and possession of child pornography is not the equivalent of first-degree murder.”
 

HeartlessNinny

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No way. It's pretty gross, but locking someone up forever is needlessly cruel and expensive (in that order).

Being tough on crime sounds good, but it doesn't make us any safer or more secure. Draconian punishments are wrong.
 

cdamm

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yes.

if you own it, then you are supporting it. anything to do with harming children in any way should be penalized to the extreme. Throw all the rapists/molesters/ child porno folk on an island and leave 'em there. fuck 'em if they say its too extreme. its child-fucking-porn. there is no place for it. its abuse. its simple as that.

(i also feel rapists should go away forever.)
 

norton9478

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THAT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE FORM OF PUNISHMENT.

I SAY ThE DEATH PENALTy!
 

HeartlessNinny

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yes.

if you own it, then you are supporting it. anything to do with harming children in any way should be penalized to the extreme. Throw all the rapists/molesters/ child porno folk on an island and leave 'em there. fuck 'em if they say its too extreme. its child-fucking-porn. there is no place for it. its abuse. its simple as that.

(i also feel rapists should go away forever.)

What about the people who get nailed with this charge unjustly? There have been cases where a 17 or 18 year old guy is dating a 16 year old girl, who sends him a topless pic or whatever. He gets charged with child pornography and goes to jail. That's bad enough, but now he goes to jail forever? That's a miscarriage of justice.

I've also heard about people being sent to jail for having pictures of their own children naked in the bathtub and whatnot.

Justice is justice, not retribution. Even if someone has done something horrible, punishing them overly severely doesn't do anything other than make people feel a bit better about themselves. It doesn't do anything in the way of prevention.
 

BobbyPeru

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A few years ago, a high school friend of my wife's was arrested for possessing child pornography. It was very surreal. He called around to all his close friends to tell them what had happened. He discussed some abuse he had faced as a child, but admitted that it was no excuse for what he was into. He admitted that he needed help, and ended up spending a few months in jail and treatment. Now he's back in town and it's always a little bit weird running into him out and about. Really, what do you say to the guy?

Anyway, it seems like most people are just acting as if it never happened.

If society determines that viewing/trading images of sexual abuse is a crime worthy of a life sentence, then this better also be reflected in the sentencing that actual abusers face.
 

HeartlessNinny

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If society determines that viewing/trading images of sexual abuse is a crime worthy of a life sentence, then this better also be reflected in the sentencing that actual abusers face.

That raises another issue. If the penalty for having a naked photo of a child and straight up raping them is the same, a lot of guys are going to rape more kids.
 

GregN

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Just chemically castrate them.

This. If someone has possesstion (sp I know) of kiddie porn, that means a child was victimized in making it, and he's contributing to the hell that kid will face the rest of his/her life.
 

HeartlessNinny

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that means a child was victimized in making it=

Not necessarily. Go to Europe some time and find a nude beach -- you'll find some naked kids on some of 'em with their families. I'm sure there are creepy assholes with pictures of them out there, and I don't think those kids were victimized.

Plus there's the stuff I mentioned before: There's plenty of legal precedent where a self-shot of a 16 year old was considered child porn. Hell, I've even heard of people getting charged with child porn for having naked photos of themselves on their phones.

Besides: You can achieve the same effects as a chemical castration with medication. Sometimes the law fucks up and punishes the wrong people by mistake, and if that's the case, it's better if the punishment isn't permanently destroying your balls. Which would be pretty fucking rough... Jesus.
 

BigTinz

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Absolutely not. It's an absurd sentence, NOTHING should be illegal to view.

CP is vile and I truly believe that those who seek it out need help, HOWEVER...it's not anyone's place to get involved with what people do in their own home as long as it doesn't involve actual harm to anyone. I don't agree with the above post stating those who view CP are as bad as the creators.

Same deal as with drugs, as long as no one is being hurt....who cares?
 

dedalusdedalus

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Besides: You can achieve the same effects as a chemical castration with medication. Sometimes the law fucks up and punishes the wrong people by mistake, and if that's the case, it's better if the punishment isn't permanently destroying your balls. Which would be pretty fucking rough... Jesus.

Chemical castration actually doesn't castrate permanently. The drug has to be continually administered, and it's reversible when the treatment stops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

Anyway, chemical castration is the most reasonable way to deal with sex offenders because it's an inexpensive alternative to incarceration, it directly addresses the offense to society, and it's reversible in the event of a false conviction.
 

evil wasabi

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it's actually a very strange juxtaposition. When you consider the range of punishable offenses this one is different. And I feel it's different because it isn't just like some guy buying cocaine with cash (supporting the industry) and getting charged more than the guy who brings the product into the US. It's like stealing movies over the internet and videotaping them illegally in the theaters. Bear with me here - the guy who illegally films the screener would sell a few dvd transfers, but most people will still be downloading the movie illegally. So what is the support? Internet clout?

To the claim that a person in possession of child pornography being a supporter of the industry, I don't think that's always the case. In fact, it's more likely that these guys are downloading stuff for free. Obviously the guy is sick in the head. Usually when someone is found to have a mental illness they are given psychiatric therapy. But here, they want to put him in prison, at the cost of tax payers, where he will likely be exploited for his mental weaknesses - for a crime that, whether you want to agree or not, did not cause the sexual child abuse to occur.

If you make it, they will come. :rolleyes:

Let's just say that if there's no cocaine in NY, then there will be no coke users in NY. If you want to get rid of the drugs, locking up the users has been a clearly ineffectual route. There will always be more users. And there will always be more people hoarding pedophilia. They're sick. They have a problem. But it's a problem linked to access of a product that they should not have access to. The punishment here is excessive. And here, the real losers are everyone except the guy who abused the children because the perp goes to jail, the kid is still a victim of child abuse, and society foots the bill. Coooool duuuude.
 

SpamYouToDeath

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The concept of illegal information is not one that should exist in a democracy.

They're already using the kiddie porn filters to block USENET indexes in Britain. It won't be long till the record/movie industries take advantage of the tools here, too.
 

NeoSneth

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possession should definitely not be life. Creating, distributing, etc.... those might be reasons.
 

SML

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Fine and registration.
 

cum_drops

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And yet this guy only gets a year in prison, yea that makes sense.
 

aria

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yes.

if you own it, then you are supporting it. anything to do with harming children in any way should be penalized to the extreme. Throw all the rapists/molesters/ child porno folk on an island and leave 'em there. fuck 'em if they say its too extreme. its child-fucking-porn. there is no place for it. its abuse. its simple as that.

(i also feel rapists should go away forever.)
This brings up more questions (which comes from thought out answer):

Are they paying people for it? Who is being supported in some of these situations? What if they're someone's bath photos that were misappropriated by others (which has led to some alarming situations for non-maliciously minded parents when the film was brought for developing)?

This issue got even more confusing when they were trying to sort out the punishment for simulated child porn (e.g. computer generated or in movies where it's not for exploitative purposes like the well-cited scene in Traffic). Should simulated be okay?

Should the possession of a snuff film be even harsher?
 

aria

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Here's a very intriguing scenario inspired by the discussion:

A child is photographed during bath time by his parents (completely innocently, the child is nude). 25 years later that same child, now grown up and in the age of majority, finds the photos and decides to make money off of them by selling them to deviants online. For the sake of simplicity, assume the parents have previously died. What then?
 

SonGohan

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This topic is too creepy for me to rationally contribute.
 

fake

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In a number of places being guilty of actually molesting a child might get a lighter sentence.

I'm pretty sure you can do more time for threatening to kill someone than actually killing someone. Merica.
 

Cylotron

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THAT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE FORM OF PUNISHMENT.

I SAY ThE DEATH PENALTy!

i agree. these people are obviously beyond "ill". no hope in rehabilitation whatsoever... even if they show signs of "improvement" the feelings/urges/temptation is always going to be there.. just like when a guy gets horny. of course, there's surgery to "fix" their head.....
but i'd say offer them the choice...
death penalty.. or lobotomy


anyone who says otherwise, we should probably have their pc checked out. :spock:
 

SML

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anyone who says otherwise, we should probably have their pc checked out. :spock:

I feel the same way, except about people who want trials for terrorists.
 

cdamm

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Absolutely not. It's an absurd sentence, NOTHING should be illegal to view.

CP is vile and I truly believe that those who seek it out need help, HOWEVER...it's not anyone's place to get involved with what people do in their own home as long as it doesn't involve actual harm to anyone. I don't agree with the above post stating those who view CP are as bad as the creators.

Same deal as with drugs, as long as no one is being hurt....who cares?

seeking it out to me is the same as making it. You are supporting it. Then you would be supporting the sexual abuse of children. Creating a market for it, gives people a reason to make it. by seeking it out i feel it is harming the children involved, however in an indirect manner. Putting it in the same category as drugs is like comparing apples to orangutans.
 
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