My thoughts on Dark Souls **MERC LIKE WALL O' TEXT INCOMING!**

Jedah Doma

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I wanted to address this post as well, because not only do I agree with HN on his points here, but it illustrates something Jedah has taken an unfair knock over.

I've called Jedah out, a guy I like a good bit, on his 'troll bombing' in threads. I never get 'personal' with one's methods, even though I'll disagree with one's opinions from time to time.

So what does Jedah do now?

He rents the game, plays it for eight hours, posts very valid and legitimate reasons for not liking it, criticizes problems with its basic design theory and basically gets told 'STFU U SUCK' for it.

It's not like he just decided to shit all over it without justification. He posted a well thought out opinion on the subject that shows he understands video games and why he doesn't like this one and still gets told his opinion is shitty.

I find no fault with his view this time out. He's not bombing on the game from afar. He got in the trenches, decided he didn't like the game, and posted good technical reasons why he considers it a tedious exercise in frustration.

It was a valid and quality post from his point of view. Much respect.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I'll admit I've been abrasive and short when it comes to games I don't like. I wanted to make this post informed and clear in my criticisms so there would be no confusion. That's also one of the reasons I didn't post this in the general Dark Souls thread. I didn't want to detract from a thread for those who wanted to talk about the game.

Folks like LWK will always be there to try and tear down a valid argument. Saying I'm wrong does not invalidate my argument. It only means we value different things in video games. Aspects I find annoying are enjoyable to others.

As I said in my post, this game has even more solidified my belief you can't replace playing the game for yourself. And no matter if I enjoy the game or not, I'll always wait to pass judgement until I've gotten the chance to played it. It's because of this I've found a love for a series like Mass Effect. I've never been a fan of BioWare, but after being introduced to the first Mass Effect, and the even more amazing sequel, I'm hooked. Now this doesn't mean I'll buy or love every BioWare game, but it does mean I'll give them a chance.
 
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complexz

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sheesh sounds like I gotta buy demon souls, hard ass games that most people don't understand and hate but a select few love to death are always the best games!
 

subcons

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I can't be bothered to read all of the long ass posts in this thread...

Just know, DrkS is game of the year for me thus far because I've had an immense amount of fun with it and it's highly addictive. I just want to keep playing it to explore its world and see what's coming up next. That's really all that needs to be said about the game.

If it's too hard for some or they find flaws in its overall design, that's fine. All games have their flaws.
 

Taiso

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I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Happy to give it in this case.

I agree with most of your criticisms of the game, and to be honest...that's why I haven't returned to it recently.

With other games that are more fun and don't require self flagellation to enjoy (like DR2: Off the Record, Gears 3, Batman: Arkham City) to play right now, and more coming in the next month (AC: Revelation, Skyrim, U MvC 3, KOF XIII) to keep me busy, as well as PC and PSP games taking up what time I have left (The Witcher 2, Dungeon Siege 3, FFT: WotL), I don't find myself needing to come back to this right now.

And that doesn't include all my other hobbies (like reading) and quality time with the woman.

I fully intend to die a bunch more in Dark Souls. I may do some more tonight, depending on how I feel. But Dark Souls in no way compels me to put aside other games to play it. I'm not thinking about Dark Souls or looking forward to playing it over other games. And I largely think it's because the composition of that game is not something I find immediately captivating.
 

HeartlessNinny

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sheesh sounds like I gotta buy demon souls, hard ass games that most people don't understand and hate but a select few love to death are always the best games!

Demon's Souls is a better game than Dark Souls. I don't think I've even heard the Dark Souls apologists say otherwise. They still have the servers going for Demon's Souls, so if I was you, I'd get that.
 

roker

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I was going to post this in the Dark Souls thread, but I figured why clog it up with a long discussion about my experience with it.

So I've finally summed up my entire experience with Dark Souls. It's long but hang with me. Let me preface this wall of text by saying I am not a fan of the original Demon's Souls. I could go into detail, but suffice to say it was not an enjoyable experience. Now I know some of you may think my negative viewpoint may taint my judgment of Dark Souls. First of all, never use the word taint in my presence. Second I can promise you I played the game with an open mind. I simply wanted to give Dark Souls its' day in court.

This is not a full on review. More of my impressions of the game. Since I played only a few hours, I cannot give an exhaustive review of every aspect nor do I intend to. This is just my thoughts on my time with the game. I am not the type of person to simply rely on reviews or even suggestions of friends. While these are both excellent sources of information, they cannot substitute playing the actual game. With that in mind I rented a copy of Dark Souls from my local RedBox for a paltry two dollars. A minimum investment for an informed opinion I figured.

Starting the game up, I was greeted with the typical character customization screen we're all familiar with. I tinkered around with a few of the options. Some of them seemed very clear in how the affect they would have on gameplay and/or my character. Other options were more vague while still others were downright misleading or false. After a bit of tinkering around I settled on the Hunter.

The game opened with a cut scene telling of an ancient evil bent on doing bad things and yadda yadda. Ya know your typical end of ages plot. While certainly not a new idea, it didn't really affect my judgment of the game. I don't get hung up on story so it really wasn't an issue. Hey, I'll fight the endless legions of evil for nothing more than a slice of pecan pie.

The environments were nice. A normal high fantasy type of setting. I did like a lot of the enemy designs. Some were just plain screwy. I gotta believe the art team at From Software were taking a hit off the old magic pipe when coming up with some of these ideas. The graphics did a good job interpenetrating the overall art direction. Areas felt varied and expansive without a lot of repeating elements. You can tell a lot of time and dedication went into this world.

Starting the game out I reacquainted myself with the controls. For the most part they did the job. Though game developers is it too much to ask for custom button mapping? Seriously, it doesn't take that much effort. In fact it takes less effort to allow me to assign any button to any action than to program it. Plus it allows disabled and handicapped gamers a chance to play the game as well. Anyway targeting was performed by clicking in R3, something I still don't understand. Why would you use the same stick for targeting and target switching that you use for camera control? Also roll was assigned to the 'O' button when for me it would have been much more convenient assigned to the 'X' button. Again button mapping would solve this little issue. Other than that the controls worked well.

On a side note, why is there no pause button? Even when I'm not connected to the online world I can't pause the game. Look I realize this is supposed to be some grand connected online experience, but what if I need to pee mid game? What if I need to get a drink, get the door, take the dog outside, or any of a dozen different things normal human being do? Must I be tethered to my screen until I find a save point? I'm forced to sit the controller down and hope there's not some enemy who'll pull my innards out from my eye socket while I'm taking a leak.

The battle system certainly harkened back to the days of Demon's Souls. Slow and deliberate. I understand many people enjoy this kind of battle system. For me, it's way too lethargic. You can't really take on more than about two enemies at once. That and they must be in front of you at all times. Trying to attack/defend an enemy in front and in back does not work. This lead me to draw out enemies so I could finish them off one at a time. It was too risky to engage multiple enemies at once. Again, that is the way they designed the battle system, but I felt it only hampered the experience for me.

Though the worst offender of the combat system is the almighty stamina gauge. This is represented by a green bar underneath your constantly-abused health gauge. Swing your sword, and some stamina is used up. Follow through with a combo attack, and some more is expended. Defend an enemy attack, and more of that sweet green bar is depleted. Any action other than walking will most likely require stamina. Of course it refills over time when not in use. The speed of the stamina gauge depends on your stats and certain other factors. If it runs out, you're left open for and attack. This system was most likely implemented to bring more of an active RPG element into the game. Personally I'm more of an attack as fast and as much as you can kind of guy. I don't like a bar dictating when I can attack, defend, parry, run, or roll. Just let me play. Though this aspect also affirms the methodical pace the game requires. That being said the battle system does work. Maybe not to my liking, but it's certainly serviceable.

I have a very love/hate relationship with how Dark Souls's world is setup compared to Demon's Souls. On one hand I love the idea of an open world. No longer are areas segmented by endless loading screens. It flows to make the experience more organic. On the other hand I really hate the fact the game doesn't do a better job pointing you in the right direction. I understand you are supposed to find out for yourself by searching around. That's the whole point. Though there are not many if any clues as to where you should go in relation to your current level/quest.

For instance I went into an area with a ton of skeleton enemies near the beginning of the game. As I was told later by other more experienced players, I was not supposed to go there until later in the game. So why is it open? Why allow me to wander aimlessly for the better part of an hour if this isn't the way to go? The argument could be made you should look at the clues on the ground or talk to the various NPCs, but even those don't give you too many specifics as to your next destination. I feel the game should have done a better job providing clues or leading you in some sort of logical progression.

Then there's the music, or lack thereof. Where is it? I've heard many people say, "Oh it builds ambience" or "It accentuates your footsteps and the clang of your sword in battle." I could certainly understand that line of thinking. That is if the game truly did a magnificent job of building said ambience. For me it felt very empty and hollow without music. Granted certain areas and boss battles had music, but most of the game is merely sound effects. Even a simple light background track would have greatly enhanced the game. I later got a chance to listen to the full soundtrack and really enjoyed it which makes this even more disappointing it wasn't included in the entire game. I would have loved it if they included these songs throughout the whole game as you triumphantly charged to your own impending death!

Speaking of dying, there's a lot of it in Dark Souls. I've been told by many people Demon's Souls is a "hard" game. I've also been told Dark Souls is even harder than Demon's Souls. Truth be told, the actual game itself wasn't difficult, but the way in which it's designed gives the illusion of difficulty. I'd go so far as to say the game is downright unsportsmanlike. Simply put it sucker punches you. Let me give you example of what I mean.

So I'm heading up this straight staircase and about halfway up I spot a flaming barrel. Mind you I'm walking at a normal pace so my first instinct is to run back the other way. Of course as we've covered before, nothing you do in Dark Souls is fast. This includes turning around and running. So of course I'm run over by this barrel and it just so happens it also pushes me off the edge of the staircase causing me to fall to my death.

How was I supposed to know that was going to happen? I had no advance warning or sign of this impending danger until it was too late. Fact of the matter is, the barrel was put there to hurt me. It wasn't a test of skill. I was halfway up the stairs with no way to avoid the attack other than rolling off the side of the cliff and dying (which kind of defeats the purpose of my whole quest). I tried turning and running as fast as I could, but there was no way to avoid it.

You may say, "Well you're just not quick enough." Keep in mind you're talking to a guy who beat Bayonetta on Non-stop Climax mode and is a bullet hell aficionado. I may not be the fastest gaming guns in the West, but I can assure you my reaction skills are quite intact. It's the slow mechanics of the game mixed with its' penchants for sucker punches that caused my death.

I'll give you another example. I go up another flight of stairs, mind you with a bit more caution after my last incident with a barrel to the face, and find before me a long bridge. There's a few enemies scattered about. Nothing serious, only a couple of archers and a few swordsmen. I walk towards them and get to about a third of the way across the bridge when out of nowhere a dragon sweeps in and blazes the entire bridge with fire. Of course this sets me on fire thereby melting my flesh and taking a ton of health. I hobble back the way I came as the red dragon perches itself on the opposite side of the bridge. I imagine it's having a good lulz over the whole thing.

Again, how is that fair? Someone told me I should have known a dragon would reign fire upon me by the black char marks on the bridge. What? Am I Columbo now? I'm supposed to derive, "Hey there's a dragon that will come out of the sky and burn you with hellfire" from a few black spots on the bridge? Still others said I should have looked for the red marks players left as clues. They will give you hints or general ideas of danger, but nothing as specific as "Big red dragon will burn you to a crisp if you step foot on this bridge." That has nothing to do with skill. You will get hit by it. It's not an option and you can't be good enough to avoid it. It's not hard just a sucker punch.

Oh but it doesn't stop there my friends. No I've saved the best sucker punch for last. The nail in the coffin that solidified my disdain for the game. After being steam rolled by a barrel and turned into dragon a shish kabob, I entered a spiral staircase. I slowly climbed the staircase and said to myself, "I bet the game is going to troll me right now." How little I knew. Carefully I progressed upward to see what would greet me at the top. Before I reached the top I saw the golden armored foot of a powerful enemy above. "Ha!" I said to myself as I proceeded to run back down the spiral staircase. Even if he had seen me, I could at least run away and get to better ground.

But the game had other plans because coming up the spiral staircase was another enemy. This then lead to what I liked to call the "Dark Souls Oreo of Infinite Pain". The two enemies were the crunchy chocolate cookies, and I was the creamy white middle. Though unlike a tasty Oreo, there was nothing good about this. My first instinct was to try and run. Well the powers that be designed the game so I could neither jump over or go around the enemies in this staircase. I was stuck. I couldn't defend as I would have to block front and back with perfect precision and pray they didn't both attack me at once. I couldn't attack them as that would leave me open for a counter attack by one or both of the enemies. Even if I could do anything, my stamina gauge would run out and I'd be dead anyway. So there I was, getting gang banged by both enemies. I then resigned myself to death.

And that's where my journey with Dark Souls ended. All the issues up until this point were something I could possibly get used to or understand how others could. Once the sucker punches came, I was officially done.

The best analogy I could use is Mike Tyson's Punchout for the NES. You all remember that game right? Hard as nails. You had to earn every victory and it only got more difficult as you progressed. Even so it was beatable. Remember how you beat Mike Tyson at the end (or Mr. Dream if you had the lame version)? You looked for patterns. He would raise his eyebrows or move in a certain way. It was at that moment you knew you had to take action either by dodging or punching. Sure you'd get wailed on the first few times, but after you understood what those signals meant, you adapted and became better finally beating him. Dark Souls offers none of that. It's like playing Mike Tyson with no signs or patterns of attack. Just a flurry of attacks you can in no way be prepared for until you're knocked out. Sound like fun? Not to me. Not to me my friend.

As Joy Division put it, you're no good for me Dark Souls.

If I have gained anything out of this, it's the affirmed notion you should always try out new and different games for yourself. Sure you'll play some stinkers and games that just aren't for you, but it's about those few hidden gems that rise to the top that make it all worth it. If you don't try them, you might miss out on a unique experience. Why do I feel there should be a rainbow with the words "The More You Know" scrolling by?

P.S. If you've really read through this whole thing, kudos to you. Go get yourself an Oreo.

cool story, bro
 

cannonball

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is this shit worth getting? I love demon's souls.

Yeah it's definitely worth getting. It is as good as Demon's Souls for sure. I'm not sure which I like better yet. I'm only half way through the game.
 

subcons

I take no official position on the issue.,
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Demon's Souls is a better game than Dark Souls. I don't think I've even heard the Dark Souls apologists say otherwise. They still have the servers going for Demon's Souls, so if I was you, I'd get that.

I actually like Dark Souls better so far. But if you've played neither, it doesn't hurt to start with Demon's Souls as you can pick it up for cheap and the servers are supposed to be up through to 2012 at least (likely beyond). The online definitely works better in DS than in DrkS, but I haven't touched DS since DrkS dropped, so I'm not sure what the activity on there is like.
 

LWK

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I appreciate the vote of confidence. I'll admit I've been abrasive and short when it comes to games I don't like. I wanted to make this post informed and clear in my criticisms so there would be no confusion. That's also one of the reasons I didn't post this in the general Dark Souls thread. I didn't want to detract from a thread for those who wanted to talk about the game.

Folks like LWK will always be there to try and tear down a valid argument. Saying I'm wrong does not invalidate my argument. It only means we value different things in video games. Aspects I find annoying are enjoyable to others.

As I said in my post, this game has even more solidified my belief you can't replace playing the game for yourself. And no matter if I enjoy the game or not, I'll always wait to pass judgement until I've gotten the chance to played it. It's because of this I've found a love for a series like Mass Effect. I've never been a fan of BioWare, but after being introduced to the first Mass Effect, and the even more amazing sequel, I'm hooked. Now this doesn't mean I'll buy or love every BioWare game, but it does mean I'll give them a chance.

A valid argument? Just admit you quit because the game was to hard for you. That is what this is really about. Also, here's a review of this 'bad game' Cracked nearly a 10 in the mainstream, that says a lot.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/dark-souls/review.html
 

Taiso

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A valid argument? Just admit you quit because the game was to hard for you. That is what this is really about. Also, here's a review of this 'bad game' Cracked nearly a 10 in the mainstream, that says a lot.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/dark-souls/review.html

Did you legitimately take 'this game is too hard so I quit?' from his comments? Or is this just typical ng.com banter?

Because I didn't take that away from his review at all.

What I took was:

'I don't like this game's tedium. It's not for me. Here's why.'

I can't fucking stand racing games.

I hate them.

With a passion.

So no matter how much someone tries to tell me 'play this one, it'll be different because it's getting rave reviews everywhere,' I'll still give it a pass. It's just not my kind of thing.

I think Jedah said 'this is why I don't think it's a good game...' and proceeded to do that pretty well.

It's not solely the difficulty. It's the difficulty combined with the play style, the speed, the control...everything. It's the whole combination.

That's what I got out of the review, anyway.

EDIT: Yeah, he talks about the 'sucker punches' but he's not saying they're hard. He's saying they're cheap ways to inflict damage on players and he doesn't agree in the philosophy that 'it makes you better and pay more attention.' He just thinks it's cheap.
 
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Ninjatemper

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For those of you who dislike Demon / Dark Souls:

You are spoiled by a video game market flooded with short, easy games that require little to no strategy, planning, or skill.

It's not often a gem of a game comes along like this that can actually force you to become skilled in order to compete. All of it's components are carefully thought out and combine into a fantastic example of perfection in control.

This game rewards you for time invested more so in your own skill level, rather than character progression. Understanding the combat system and it's subtle nuances as well as practice in controlling your character are the keys to really enjoying this game. Understanding how different builds work in relation to others is also important.

The real pleasure to be had in this one is from PvP. Winning fights when invading other realms or being invaded is where it's at. Everything else is just the backdrop to teach you how do be successful in PvP.

It's really the people that have no desire for competition that will dislike this game. They are weak of mind and weak of will.
 

LWK

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Did you legitimately take 'this game is too hard so I quit?' from his comments? Or is this just typical ng.com banter?

Because I didn't take that away from his review at all.

What I took was:

'I don't like this game's tedium. It's not for me. Here's why.'

I can't fucking stand racing games.

I hate them.

With a passion.

So no matter how much someone tries to tell me 'play this one, it'll be different because it's getting rave reviews everywhere,' I'll still give it a pass. It's just not my kind of thing.

I think Jedah said 'this is why I don't think it's a good game...' and proceeded to do that pretty well.

It's not solely the difficulty. It's the difficulty combined with the play style, the speed, the control...everything. It's the whole combination.

That's what I got out of the review, anyway.

EDIT: Yeah, he talks about the 'sucker punches' but he's not saying they're hard. He's saying they're cheap ways to inflict damage on players and he doesn't agree in the philosophy that 'it makes you better and pay more attention.' He just thinks it's cheap.

Sure its what I take from it. Decrying a awesome gaming experience due to not doing well isn't the games fault.

Its hard, that's the point. Its one of the reasons its so fun to play and rewarding.
It does make you better, as with experience you can conquer stuff you couldn't before. I recently resumed my demon souls file, had to make a new one, because I wiped out my hdd ages back. Been having a blast.

If you're gonna review a game, take the criticism of disagreement. You really are asking for it, because this is the type of game old 2d neo-geo nerds should LOVE. Dark Souls might even be better then demon's souls. I need to get it. I wonder how many people who hate this game even know how to use the targeting system properly. Demon's souls bosses are stupid over rated, in many situations you can literally lock onto a boss, circle around them and spam soul arrow. I welcome a even more demented difficult game. These types of games are gem's because they take focus. In ten years when I think back, I'll have forgotten so many games, but not this series.


For those of you who dislike Demon / Dark Souls:

You are spoiled by a video game market flooded with short, easy games that require little to no strategy, planning, or skill.

It's not often a gem of a game comes along like this that can actually force you to become skilled in order to compete. All of it's components are carefully thought out and combine into a fantastic example of perfection in control.

This game rewards you for time invested more so in your own skill level, rather than character progression. Understanding the combat system and it's subtle nuances as well as practice in controlling your character are the keys to really enjoying this game. Understanding how different builds work in relation to others is also important.

The real pleasure to be had in this one is from PvP. Winning fights when invading other realms or being invaded is where it's at. Everything else is just the backdrop to teach you how do be successful in PvP.

It's really the people that have no desire for competition that will dislike this game. They are weak of mind and weak of will.

I don't know who the hell you are, but you are a intelligent guy, please stick around.
 
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Taiso

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Sure its what I take from it. Decrying a awesome gaming experience due to not doing well isn't the games fault.

Its hard, that's the point. Its one of the reasons its so fun to play and rewarding.
It does make you better, as with experience you can conquer stuff you couldn't before. I recently resumed my demon souls file, had to make a new one, because I wiped out my hdd ages back. Been having a blast.

If you're gonna review a game, take the criticism of disagreement. You really are asking for it, because this is the type of game old 2d neo-geo nerds should LOVE. Dark Souls might even be better then demon's souls. I need to get it.

Completely off base.

He just doesn't like Dark Souls, and gave good reasons for calling it out. I didn't extrapolate 'it's too hard for me so it sucks' from his review.

Lot of straw manning going on there, LWK.

I think it's fair to criticize the review, but you're not really doing that.

For those of you who dislike Demon / Dark Souls:

You are spoiled by a video game market flooded with short, easy games that require little to no strategy, planning, or skill.

Patently false. There are ton of games on the market that do not have Dark Souls' difficulty curve and require plenty of strategy, planning and skill.

It's not often a gem of a game comes along like this that can actually force you to become skilled in order to compete. All of it's components are carefully thought out and combine into a fantastic example of perfection in control.

There are difficult games out there that have equally rewarding learning curves. None of them are Dark Souls.

This game rewards you for time invested more so in your own skill level, rather than character progression. Understanding the combat system and it's subtle nuances as well as practice in controlling your character are the keys to really enjoying this game. Understanding how different builds work in relation to others is also important.

What about people that just don't like this type of game? What if people don't care about any of this?

Are you saying it's impossible to simply dislike a well designed game?

The real pleasure to be had in this one is from PvP. Winning fights when invading other realms or being invaded is where it's at. Everything else is just the backdrop to teach you how do be successful in PvP.

So the game can't be fairly criticized if the critic doesn't enjoy PVP?

It's really the people that have no desire for competition that will dislike this game. They are weak of mind and weak of will.

Seriously, this is a ridiculous statement. There are people that have endured far more difficult things in life than Dark Souls. If a cancer survivor doesn't like Dark Souls, I'd hardly describe him as 'weak of mind and weak of will.' I'd just describe him as 'not a Dark Souls kind of player.'

And if he had intelligent reasons for disliking it, I wouldn't discredit those. I'd just shrug and say 'not your cup of tea, cool.'

I don't recall his review saying 'you are crap if you like Dark Souls.'

But your comments are saying, essentially, 'you are crap if you don't like Dark Souls.'

I don't buy it.
 
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LWK

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This series is beyond well designed. Fighting regular enemies is a strategic exercise, it feels awesome. Tired of bullshit games where all you gotta do is mash one damn button to whisk through, heal and repeat. That shit is boring, there is no challenge. I don't respect it, because its free and not rewarding.

He's totally right. Weak of will is the perfect statement for giving up on a game that's probably awesome due to its cheapness factors.

Nobody is saying he's crap, hes just wrong on his approach on this game and IMO he gave up to fast, or he doesn't give a shit enough to continue, that is his right, and its my right to say he's wrong on his more critical points of the game, because its blatantly ignoring there are ways around EVERY situation he hates.

You can't nitpick a few instances and bam, fuck this game. C'mon. So much ignorance and back patting is haunting this thread, this series is amazing for the exact reasons he hates. You know why I love video games? Because the designers had enough respect for my intelligence to give me some fucking credit and throw a decent challenge at me. Its why I love 3S. Layers of depth, and if that depth comes with serious difficulty, I welcome it, because its far more meaning then beating mario party etc and forgetting I even played it.

There is a difference between a game that's cheap like this and old nes games. Those were fucked up with bad controls and other bugging issues. This game is well coded and just takes skill. Nobody can bitch that its bad or etc if you don't put the time into it to get said skills to make it the experience its meant to be. I love the fact I can target enemies, bait out there slashes, dash back, counter. Etc. Its like a fighting game in one medium aspect of its depth, and that's great.
 
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Ninjatemper

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No, you're just making assumptions. Let's not compare a video game to real life things of importance like cancer. I understand that this game won't be everyone's cup of tea. It is grossly difficult when compared to other current gen games. LWK has it right. This is the type of game that old school gamer junkies like many of us would tend to enjoy. Difficult, rewarding gameplay. I still stand by my statement that it's people who do not desire competition that will not like this game. Demon / Dark Souls is to RPG's as SF 3rd Strike is to arcade fighters. You have to be damn good to be good.

Either way, you're not "crap" if you don't like Dark Souls. You're just not skilled enough to play it well.
 

LWK

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Either way, you're not "crap" if you don't like Dark Souls. You're just not skilled enough to play it well.

Yep, and that is fine to. Everyone starts this game off as garbage, and you get better by accepting your losses and learning from it. I love redoing sections when I die. I expect to die, or how the heck else can I improve? I just think it sucks people are gonna write off an awesome memory due to some hard shit. You guys wanna fuck with hard? Go beat the first uncharted on crushing. Having done that this generation, nothing has scared me.

I remember reading how tough this game was, then I went and got it, *demons souls* Having got to the shrine of storms and learning how to properly guard and bait shit, I really started feeling 'man, this game is great'. Those small moments I miss to death in this age of stupid fucking sequels or non innovative ideas. Demon's souls is the freshest game I've played in years. Games like this make me realize what it meant to be a gamer and how that feeling feels. I got it with Super Monkey Ball, Super Punch Out etc. I love games with time advanced learning curves. I like my share of bs games to, but its a nice break.
 
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Taiso

No, you may not ask what part of Greece I'm from!
25 Year Member
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No, you're just making assumptions. Let's not compare a video game to real life things of importance like cancer. I understand that this game won't be everyone's cup of tea. It is grossly difficult when compared to other current gen games. LWK has it right. This is the type of game that old school gamer junkies like many of us would tend to enjoy. Difficult, rewarding gameplay. I still stand by my statement that it's people who do not desire competition that will not like this game. Demon / Dark Souls is to RPG's as SF 3rd Strike is to arcade fighters. You have to be damn good to be good.

Either way, you're not "crap" if you don't like Dark Souls. You're just not skilled enough to play it well.

You said 'weak of will and weak of mind' to describe people that don't like Dark Souls (which is completely wrong,) which are general character flaws. You used them to describe someone's approach to a video game.

Those are your words.

If you'd have jut worded your point this way from the start, I'd have never posted a thought about your comment because I agree-if you don't do well at this game, it's because you really suck at it.

This series is beyond well designed. Fighting regular enemies is a strategic exercise, it feels awesome. Tired of bullshit games where all you gotta do is mash one damn button to whisk through, heal and repeat. That shit is boring, there is no challenge. I don't respect it, because its free and not rewarding.

He's totally right. Weak of will is the perfect statement for giving up on a game that's probably awesome due to its cheapness factors.

Nobody is saying he's crap, hes just wrong on his approach on this game and IMO he gave up to fast, or he doesn't give a shit enough to continue, that is his right, and its my right to say he's wrong on his more critical points of the game, because its blatantly ignoring there are ways around EVERY situation he hates.

He's 'wrong' on the approach of this game?

How about if he just doesn't like this kind of game and gives good, intelligent reasons for it after playing it for eight hours?

Now he's wrong because he doesn't approach a video game the same way you do? It can't just be a different but equally valid point of view?

You are calling him out and saying he quit because it was 'too hard.' I just don't see it. At all.
 
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OrochiEddie

Kobaïa Is De Hündïn
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A valid argument? Just admit you quit because the game was to hard for you. That is what this is really about. Also, here's a review of this 'bad game' Cracked nearly a 10 in the mainstream, that says a lot.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/dark-souls/review.html

You are completely missing the point, and acting real fussy over him not liking a game for his own personal specific reasons. He never said it was the difficulty. NEVER. He said it felt "cheap". I can dig that. It's like "I wanna be the guy" most of those deaths no matter how hard you plan will get you the first time, its complete trial and error, but that game is lightning fast so you can retry a section 20 times in 2 minutes. If he doesn't like the pace of the game he doesn't like it, and with conjunction that he feels the deaths are not skill based, but just BS...fair enough to me. I've never played the games, but personally if the "shit I hate in games" tic boxes were being filled that quickly I'd quit too.

Fuck its why I put down Uncharted 1, game was so unfun to me.

I'm not sure why you have to defend this game so seriously. Who fucking cares if he doesn't enjoy the aspects of the game you do.
 

OrochiEddie

Kobaïa Is De Hündïn
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I love games with time advanced learning curves. I like my share of bs games to, but its a nice break.

That's exactly it. Not everyone is into that, and not everyone sees the game that way.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
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You said 'weak of will and weak of mind' to describe people that don't like Dark Souls (which is completely wrong,) which are general character flaws. You used them to describe someone's approach to a video game.

Those are your words.

If you'd have jut worded your point the way you did from the start, I'd have never posted a thought about your comment.



He's 'wrong' on the approach of this game?

How about if he just doesn't like this kind of game and gives good, intelligent reasons for it after playing it for eight hours?

Now he's wrong because he doesn't approach a video game the same way you do? It can't just be a different but equally valid point of view?

You are calling him out and saying he quit because it was 'too hard.' I just don't see it. At all.

When I say approach I mean on how you enjoy this type of game. If you have a pre-conceived issue with games of this nature, why bother at all?

He's wrong because hes wrong on his observations. His mechanic issues can be BEATEN if he KNEW how to do so. This review has problems because its coming from a lack of demon's souls experience to know how to even approach this shit.

I don't think his review is sound on the game, and I respect he has a right to his opinion. I'm not in a position where I can even take that away, so lets not play musical drama chairs here and move off the subject. I am not calling anyone out. I'm discussing this subject and the game and why I don't agree. I have no problems with Jedah, but I think this review is getting praise for the wrong reasons. You play a game for longer then 8 hours before you write it off and give it a review. ESPECIALLY a game that requires such a steep learning curve and is advertised as such... Imagine if I played KOF 98 for 8 hours and reviewed it in the same manner. Its nonsense IMO. Reviewing a game like this requires a full play-through at least. Its not wrong for me to dispute it and if he wants to jump the gun, that's fine, but its not my thing.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
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You are completely missing the point, and acting real fussy over him not liking a game for his own personal specific reasons. He never said it was the difficulty. NEVER. He said it felt "cheap". I can dig that. It's like "I wanna be the guy" most of those deaths no matter how hard you plan will get you the first time, its complete trial and error, but that game is lightning fast so you can retry a section 20 times in 2 minutes. If he doesn't like the pace of the game he doesn't like it, and with conjunction that he feels the deaths are not skill based, but just BS...fair enough to me. I've never played the games, but personally if the "shit I hate in games" tic boxes were being filled that quickly I'd quit too.

Fuck its why I put down Uncharted 1, game was so unfun to me.

I'm not sure why you have to defend this game so seriously. Who fucking cares if he doesn't enjoy the aspects of the game you do.

You missed the point. I don't usually defend games, so that should say something.

I wonder how many people are just pissed they are losing in this game and siding with this argument. Who cares? I care. If people avoid buying it due to that review, that's a bummer. Why shouldn't I care? He worked hard writing all that, I'll give him my return respect, even if I totally disagree. Uncharted 1, though difficult as hell was a pretty average game. I make this observation having at least played the sucker through fully.
 

Ninjatemper

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Posts
386
He's 'wrong' on the approach of this game?

How about if he just doesn't like this kind of game and gives good, intelligent reasons for it after playing it for eight hours?

Now he's wrong because he doesn't approach a video game the same way you do? It can't just be a different but equally valid point of view?

You are calling him out and saying he quit because it was 'too hard.' I just don't see it. At all.

In matters of opinion such as this, no one is really wrong. 8 hours is plenty long enough to cast your own opinion of the game. I respect Jedah's opinion and fully expect that more than most will share that opinion.

The fact of the matter is that this game will only appeal to a niche market who enjoy difficult games. They offer rich rewards for time invested.

We all have different tastes in games. Some need a 50 to 100 hour long JRPG for satisfaction, others need short intense sessions of Call of Duty to satisfy their gaming urge. For me, Demons Souls and Dark Souls is it. The difficulty oriented gamer finally has been thrown his bone.

Long live this series of games. There are those of us who have waited a long long time for this type of game to be released. I for one say this had better only be the beginning. I demand an even tougher difficulty curve and far more emphasis on PvP functionality in the next installment.

My hat is off to FROM SOFTWARE. These games ooze quality like nothing seen in ages. I feel for those of you unable to detect it or simply unable to grasp control of this game and start competing.

I look forward to seeing some of you in game. Preferably with my pike in your back while you're in the bathroom. There are no rewards in Dark Souls for succumbing to bodily functions.

I need your souls :shame:
 

OrochiEddie

Kobaïa Is De Hündïn
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Aug 22, 2001
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When I say approach I mean on how you enjoy this type of game. If you have a pre-conceived issue with games of this nature, why bother at all?

He's wrong because hes wrong on his observations. His mechanic issues can be BEATEN if he KNEW how to do so. This review has problems because its coming from a lack of demon's souls experience to know how to even approach this shit.

I don't think his review is sound on the game, and I respect he has a right to his opinion. I'm not in a position where I can even take that away, so lets not play musical drama chairs here and move off the subject. I am not calling anyone out. I'm discussing this subject and the game and why I don't agree. I have no problems with Jedah, but I think this review is getting praise for the wrong reasons. You play a game for longer then 8 hours before you write it off and give it a review. ESPECIALLY a game that requires such a steep learning curve and is advertised as such... Imagine if I played KOF 98 for 8 hours and reviewed it in the same manner. Its nonsense IMO. Reviewing a game like this requires a full play-through at least. Its not wrong for me to dispute it and if he wants to jump the gun, that's fine, but its not my thing.

If I wasn't enjoying something after 8 hours why would I torture myself with any more of it? I've played super hard games before, I've beaten some conceded to some, and said "fuck this" to others. If a game offers you no sense of accomplishment or satisfaction despite the curve why bother? Why play something you don't enjoy? Those tough games I've beaten were because I was still enjoying myself, I wanted to get better and prove it. Those I quit usually were those that had no enjoyment, they were relentlessly hard, but weren't fun to play. So if the game is very hard, and isn't my cup of tea...why bother? It sounds like Jedah wouldn't even like the game even if it was easy. He said he disliked the "Cheap" deaths, the slow pace, the control layout, and other aspects as well. It also sounds like he enjoys much more hectic games. I know I played the Bayonetta demo and felt it was just an ADD smash fest. I hear there is a deep learning curve, but why bother if it doesn't initially give me any satisfaction.

Same thing with Blazlbu. I know its a deep engaging title, but nothing about it ever intrigued me or made me want to invest more time. If you aren't being entertained why torture yourself? You seem to be pulling one aspect of the review out and harking about HE'S WRONG in his opinion and YOU'RE RIGHT based on an opinion. You are completely ignoring how disliked the pace, aspects of the atmosphere, and so on.

Maybe instead of implying he's an idiot, suggest he pick it up again and try going about it a different way. If I were him and all I got was you telling me I "did it wrong" with no explanation I wouldn't bother either.
 
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