The Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) 2011 Thread: June 6-9

Yeah, finally Pac-Man makes the jump to HD. Those pixelated sprites in previous games have really been holding the series back. Those little square dots he eats are going to look absolutely beautiful in 720p.

It´s pretty clear that Nintendo has to release a new console appealing to core gamers - at least in Europe the market for casual games is completely dead.

They seem to release titles like Darksiders 2, Batman: Arkham City and Battlefield 3 on it - why should anybody want to buy a new hardware when you can play most of the release titles on current gen consoles, which most gamers already have?

If the Wii Nunchuk is of any indication, Nintendo will make a killing by repeatedly selling WiiU to people with game rage who chuck their controllers across the room in a fit.

Ok to catch up slightly.
Regarding the WiiU, it was unclear to me what hardware the tech demos were running on. The graphics certainly looked higher than 480P, so it could well be the new console. I couldn't quite make out if it was actually a Wii under the TV as the unit looked slightly rounded. Although I did notice the sensor bar at the top of the screen.

Maybe it was a mock-up unit because ALL Nintendo dev kits are ugly ass monstrosities. Either way I think it would be good if the new Nintendo console uses the current wii remotes. It will save me on having to buy more controllers.

Regarding Tomb Raider - I have played it, its good.

I am also looking forward to:



Which looks like I have Winter covered, no need to leave the house.

Anyone else impressed by Dragon's Crown? It's by Vanillaware (Muramasa, Odin Sphere), so it's a guaranteed buy for this guy. As always, I love the art style.

LINK



Edit: It's for PS3/Vita btw.

beh3moth said:

Regarding the WiiU, it was unclear to me what hardware the tech demos were running on. The graphics certainly looked higher than 480P, so it could well be the new console.

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The WiiU system specs are in line with the PS3, allegedly. Although some developers have said better than PS3.

On another note, all of this WiiU hate is mindboggling. As a family which would you rather buy? An iPad that can be used by one person? Or the WiiU, which can play your entire Wii catalog, uses all of your Wii controllers and accessories. And will play current gen versions of the Nintendo classics. It's a no brainer that the WiiU would win out with the casual audience.

Hardcore gamers, what did we want? No more of this shovelware shit. No more Wii-mote, waggle, motion sensor, nunchuck nonsense. The WiiU brings back what the hardcore market wants, dual analog sticks w/face buttons, with strong third-party support and plays in HD. Well here it comes. What the fuck is there to complain about? (Although I'll give you Nintendo's online support, they still have to prove themselves there.)

Taiso said:

That is absolutely true. The money IS in the families and casual gamers. No debate there. The money's there because there's more money to be made from that market. Bigger pool to draw from.

But that is not the pitch or the promise they are making with WiiU. They are not saying 'this is our extension into the Wii's existing market.'

They are saying 'we want to compete with PS3 and Xbox 360.'

And the controller/system doesn't mean shit to that market if there are no worthy games to play on it.

So you can casually ignore their mission statement in favor of 'shiny trinkets with bells and whistles' if you like. But it is crap if there's nothing you can do with it.

Will wait for them to actually show me WHY I should own one, rather than pitching me on technology and potential. I am older and know better.

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I disagree. Think of it this way. IF Nintendo can get the the ports of the 360 and ps3 titles it will dominate the market for a brief period. Reason is Nintendo OWNS the casual market flat out. So lets say a kid wants a video game system for christmas or birthday. The parent would buy the WiiU for its family nature so anyone can play, but then there is no need to buy that second console because the WiiU can cover that market too. We've talked endlessly about this aspect here that people will own a 360 OR a Ps3, but also a Wii. The Wii is a tag only for its unique titles only. What they are trying to do is patch that gap.

There is one problem though with this plan. As far as it can be see the WiiU seems around as powerful as the PS3 or 360 dunno the specifics, but if its getting PS360 titles then one can assume so. So what happens when Sony and Microsoft inevitably upgrade? The WiiU will then lose that market. They put themselves in this odd spot here by being the first, but they didn't go beyond the current consoles, but simply matched them.

I'm curious how it will play out. It is hard to say what will happen. I think the WiiU will have an initial surge of everyone wanting one, but I'm not convinced it'll have lasting power. Reason being games these days cost a lot of money to make. A company will be happier to make a game that can run as many platforms as possible. The WiiU prevents that to some degree by having that special screen. Will developers want to spend the extra money to implement something for it or not? I'm not sure myself.


We still got a long way to go before PS9 is put into our spinal chords

Ghost-Dog said:

Anyone else impressed by Dragon's Crown? It's by Vanillaware (Muramasa, Odin Sphere), so it's a guaranteed buy for this guy. As always, I love the art style.

LINK

Edit: It's for PS3/Vita btw.

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More of this 'new old skool' please! I approve! Although some weird ass character design there.

That new controller on the WiiU is the size of an ipad. Seems really uncomfortable, Wiimotes too. So what are your supposed to play games with. Just another gimmiky system from Nintendo



JS

Orpheus said:

Jesus, many of you guys seem easy to please.

This has to be one of the most bland and uninspired group of offerings I have seen in many years.
N's new system would have made a great April fools joke. Nintendo & Apple should just get it over with and merge.

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I agree. Definitely bland. Congratulations to Sony for implementing a right analog stick to their new hand held offering. That was the best innovation of the show. Why the fuck were they selling the original PSP without one? It's all ridiculous to me. The excitement of E3 for me has always been the software. All the hardware can fuck off. It never works the way they say it will, or at all for that matter.

Skyrim and that new brawler from vanillaware are looking good.

3rd strike online and vita are still the stars of the show so far though.

jsiucho said:

That new controller on the WiiU is the size of an ipad. Seems really uncomfortable, Wiimotes too. So what are your supposed to play games with. Just another gimmiky system from Nintendo

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On the bright side it probably has the best d-pad of any system as usual.

I just dont get how the WiiU has lasting power. Its setting itself up for 2 years at best. Thats no long we have before Sony and Microsoft start hyping and announcing their systems. Once those 2 systems are out WiiU will be outdated tech and loose its 3rd party support again. Shit its already outdated tech.

Clessy said:

I just dont get how the WiiU has lasting power. Its setting itself up for 2 years at best. Thats no long we have before Sony and Microsoft start hyping and announcing their systems. Once those 2 systems are out WiiU will be outdated tech and loose its 3rd party support again. Shit its already outdated tech.

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I feel it's safe to say that the next consoles for Sony and Microsoft probably won't be out until 2015. I can't imagine those systems being all that more powerful than this generation. By the time they do roll out WiiU will be three years old. The WiiU will have had a price drop or two and will be listed at less than half the cost of a new Xbox720 or PS4 and the tech will be similar.

Then, in 2015, the question will be WiiU for $249 or the Xbox720/PS4 for $499-$599? And all the cross platform games will probably look the same.

Ghost-Dog said:

Anyone else impressed by Dragon's Crown? It's by Vanillaware (Muramasa, Odin Sphere), so it's a guaranteed buy for this guy. As always, I love the art style.

LINK

Edit: It's for PS3/Vita btw.

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The game looks amazing. It's a day one for me. Looks like D&D Shadows Over Mystara on steroids. If they do the multi-player right, this will be GOTY material.

No GameCube support for Wii U:

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/26632

http://www.nxtgamer.com/wii/wii-u-dropping-gamecube-compatibility/

Bummer

Magician said:

I feel it's safe to say that the next consoles for Sony and Microsoft probably won't be out until 2015. I can't imagine those systems being all that more powerful than this generation. By the time they do roll out WiiU will be three years old. The WiiU will have had a price drop or two and will be listed at less than half the cost of a new Xbox720 or PS4 and the tech will be similar.

Then, in 2015, the question will be WiiU for $249 or the Xbox720/PS4 for $499-$599? And all the cross platform games will probably look the same.

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Pretty much. The days of huge technical improvements from generation to generation are pretty much over unless you wait a good 10 years between consoles. I don't see an incentive for MS or Sony to release a new console anywhere in the near future.

Eric said:

Define "failed miserably".

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Hmm, 10 million kinect units sounds impressive, but those numbers don’t really mean anything unless you have some context or comparitive data to paint the whole picture. I am not saying you are wrong, just that those numbers don’t really say much w/o some more info.

I based my comments on 2 things. First is the lack of support for Kinect and Move. Had they been successful, I think that would be reflected in the size of the software lineup. And second, if you are going to copy someone else, at least do it well (or at least as good as whoever you are copying). I feel Kinect is terrible at motion controls and the Wii handles it much better. I can’t really comment on the Move since I never used it before.

Magician said:

On another note, all of this WiiU hate is mindboggling.

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I agree…I don’t understand all the hate for WiiU already. The strangest thing is that people are already complaining that there are no games worth owning on the WiiU since it was revealed not even 24 hours ago And as far as the tech being outdated already, I don’t think that is now (or ever has been an issue). I’ll be the first to admit that a lot of Wii games look like they could have been done on the gamecube, but it doesn’t matter…the games were fun and apparently millions of people think so as well.

However, thinking about this more, I have to say now that I don’t think Nintendo is truly going after the 360 and PS3 “hardcore” audiences…They are kinda making it look that way, but honestly, it will take many generations of gaming systems for that to happen. Let’s be realistic - anyone who hates the Wii will most likely not be too interested in the WiiU (we are seeing that in this thread already). Nintendo won’t convert any non-believers with the WiiU, and I don’t really know if they care to.

Instead of Nintendo going after Sony and Microsoft’s audience…I think they are doing something much smarter. They are trying to grow with their core audience. Think about it. There are probably millions of kids whose very first console was a Wii. Now, as those kids are becoming teenagers, maybe their preferences are maturing and they want to start playing games like Arkham Asylum or Assassins Creed. These are kids who might have started thinking about getting the next Microsoft or sony to play those games, but will now may stick with a WiiU because it is an evolution of what they are already accustomed to.

It’s pretty brilliant. They are maintaining their core demographic of families and younger kids, but they are also growing with those kids who used to be in the wii audience, but are now transitioning into the mopey teenager phase. And for families that have both young and older kids, it is a really viable gaming option. Not only that, but they are also dragging mom or dad into the mix who might be more inclined to diddle around with a tablet controller.

I admit, even prior to e3 when rumors started flying about some crazy controller, my initial reaction was that it was going to be super expensive and that they are going to lose the “casual’ audience. The system will probably be expensive and casual gamers may be reluctant to drop $400 on a system. But you’d be surprised how much money people are willing to spend if something is marketed to them effectively. I thought ipads were dumb and a waster of money, but honestly, I can’t even count how many people are playing around with them on the train ride to work everyday.

People will spend the money if they think they are getting value (Wii BC is gonna help this a lot). Plus, package in some software like the 3ds or this new Mii Battle/Chase thingy and people will eat it up.

Ghost-Dog said:

Anyone else impressed by Dragon's Crown? It's by Vanillaware (Muramasa, Odin Sphere), so it's a guaranteed buy for this guy. As always, I love the art style.

LINK

Edit: It's for PS3/Vita btw.

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I think I just found my reason to buy a Vita. Fuck!

SouthtownKid said:

Yeah, finally Pac-Man makes the jump to HD. Those pixelated sprites in previous games have really been holding the series back. Those little square dots he eats are going to look absolutely beautiful in 720p.

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Exactly! Now instead of plain old pixelated dots, we'll be treated to perfectly spherical dots in high resolution rendered by thousands of polygons! The ghosts will have transparencies and engine physics where they look like a translucent sheet with eyes! Pac-Man himself will be slick and glossy looking, able to render a reflection of the maze on his body! The mazes themselves will be in full 3D and the fruit will be rendered so that it looks like real fruit!



Actually, it'd just be nice to have an updated Pac-Man Vs. to play. Rather than have a GBA with a wired connection to the system, it would be nice to use just the hardware that comes in the box (plus a couple of extra Wii Remotes) and play wirelessly. Hopefully Namco recognizes the similarities between that first demo and Pac-Man Vs. and decides to regurgitate it for the Wii U. They seem to do a decent job of regurgitating their IPs so I can't imagine it'll be a long wait.

My impressions.

Can't be fucked writing anything further on the matter, I've already said everything which needed to be said.

OrochiEddie said:

I disagree. Think of it this way. IF Nintendo can get the the ports of the 360 and ps3 titles it will dominate the market for a brief period. Reason is Nintendo OWNS the casual market flat out. So lets say a kid wants a video game system for christmas or birthday. The parent would buy the WiiU for its family nature so anyone can play, but then there is no need to buy that second console because the WiiU can cover that market too.

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So, then, they DON'T want to appeal primarily to the hardcore gamer like they're saying they do? Or is the hardcore gamer the second market, behind families and casual gamers?

I think you're missing the point of my criticism.

I don't care WHO, in the end, this product is for. I just don't like that people are dismissing the mission statement, or working it in and rationalizing it back into the debate.

The hardcore market doesn't care about bells and whistles. So far, the Wii U is ONLY bells and whistles. We already have consoles that can play these games.

It's early in the development cycle and I'm not writing the thing off yet. But so far, this announcement is not the debut I, as a part of their promised target audience, was anticipating.

The ONLY ground I'm giving here is that it's still early.

OrochiEddie said:

We've talked endlessly about this aspect here that people will own a 360 OR a Ps3, but also a Wii. The Wii is a tag only for its unique titles only. What they are trying to do is patch that gap.

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Which they will do with games, not flashy hardware. That is for less demanding markets.

I don't begrudge them their desire for the crossover between hardcore and casual. But I'm done reading between the lines.

OrochiEddie said:

There is one problem though with this plan. As far as it can be see the WiiU seems around as powerful as the PS3 or 360 dunno the specifics, but if its getting PS360 titles then one can assume so. So what happens when Sony and Microsoft inevitably upgrade? The WiiU will then lose that market. They put themselves in this odd spot here by being the first, but they didn't go beyond the current consoles, but simply matched them.

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It's supposed to be more powerful than PS3 specwise, from what I understand. So if this thing comes out and it's the god machine they want it to be, Sony and Microsoft will be playing catchup.

OrochiEddie said:

I'm curious how it will play out. It is hard to say what will happen. I think the WiiU will have an initial surge of everyone wanting one, but I'm not convinced it'll have lasting power. Reason being games these days cost a lot of money to make. A company will be happier to make a game that can run as many platforms as possible. The WiiU prevents that to some degree by having that special screen. Will developers want to spend the extra money to implement something for it or not? I'm not sure myself.

We still got a long way to go before PS9 is put into our spinal chords

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I wouldn't be concerned about its staying power. If Nintendo's 'bid' to capture the hardcore gamer succeeds, it'll have staying power. If it turns out to be another expensive toy, people will go back to what they know and are comfortable with. Or worse, not even invest in it.

What will be interesting is whether Nintendo will adopt the modern philosophy of the game market with the new console or if they'll stick to what they know. If they don't deviate from their marketing strategy, it'll end up like Gamecube or Wii.

Ending up like the Wii wouldn't be a bad thing for Nintendo, because it will be big cash. But they'll have utterly failed in their mission statement. And thus, failed me as a consumer expecting steak and only getting hamburger.

Magician said:

I feel it's safe to say that the next consoles for Sony and Microsoft probably won't be out until 2015. I can't imagine those systems being all that more powerful than this generation.

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really?
...
really?

SouthtownKid said:

Yeah, finally Pac-Man makes the jump to HD. Those pixelated sprites in previous games have really been holding the series back. Those little square dots he eats are going to look absolutely beautiful in 720p.

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Well, two things. I guess you've never played Pac Man Vs... The two screens of the Wii U would make it a natural fit. You've also likely never played Pac Man CE. The second is a much more heinous crime, as Championship Edition is probably one of the best arcade games we've been fortunate enough to get in several years. Hell, CE 2 is probably the best damn arcade game ever.

nruva said:

Well, two things. I guess you've never played Pac Man Vs... The two screens of the Wii U would make it a natural fit. You've also likely never played Pac Man CE. The second is a much more heinous crime, as Championship Edition is probably one of the best arcade games we've been fortunate enough to get in several years. Hell, CE 2 is probably the best damn arcade game ever.

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Well, one thing. I guess you've never encountered sarcasm... Because what I was actually trying to express was the absolute absurdity of HD Pac-Man and how unnecessary it is for what the game is. I thought it was pretty obvious with the HD square dot comment, but I guess not.

And I've played CE. Yeah, it's great.

The stock market doesn't think much of Wii U, either.

They must be 'hardcore gamerz.'

EDIT: Or tablet owners.