Are lasers protected by the second amendment?

aria

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The pretty interesting article below got me thinking about the question of "laser control".

At sufficient power, can you hunt with them?

More importantly, from a Constitutional standpoint, can you maintain a well regulated Militia without them? Are they "arms"?

You can certainly used a well aimed gun to take down a plane, so what's the difference here? Would or should we allow these to be regulated more than firearms?

Thought this might provide for some discussion.

January 21, 2011
High-Powered Laser Pointers Pose Risk to Pilots
By CHRISTINE NEGRONI

The laser guru, as he is known among colleagues, tinkers with the tools of the trade in the basement of his suburban Philadelphia home. Of the pile of parts on which he works, Samuel Goldwasser, 56, says, “You don’t ask how sausage is made.”

Mr. Goldwasser, the author of the online guide called Sam’s Laser FAQ, knows so much about laser pointers — those handy devices used for making presentations, star gazing or even popping balloons as a party trick — that he could deliver a presentation on them without the aid of a laser pointer. So he was hardly surprised this week with the release of a report by the Federal Aviation Administration on a drastic increase in instances of lasers aimed at aircraft.

The sudden bright light in a darkened cockpit can cause temporary blindness or distract pilots during critical low-altitude flight.

LASER-2-popup.jpg


“It’s a Pandora’s box, and we’ve been lucky that there haven’t been major incidents,” said Mr. Goldwasser, a retired professor of computer and information science at the University of Pennsylvania and now a consultant on lasers.

The F.A.A. said there were 2,836 instances of lasers aimed at airplanes in 2010, a ninefold increase over the past five years. Saying the agency could not sit around and wait for an airplane to crash, the F.A.A.’s administrator said Friday that a ban on lasers or other regulations might be needed if a public education campaign is not effective.

“We don’t want to see this develop where we’re investigating an accident,” said the administrator, Randy Babbitt.

Light from lasers radiates endlessly, and it diffuses with distance. A beam that is 1/25th of an inch wide at its origin can be 2 to 3 feet wide by the time it reaches an airliner approaching or departing an airport. Helicopters and general aviation airplanes fly slower and lower than airliners and are included in the tally of lasers pointed at aircraft.

New technology that makes powerful lasers more affordable is contributing to the rash of instances in the United States and other countries, experts say, the most recent being an event on a charter plane returning the Seahawks football team to Seattle on Monday.

Mr. Goldwasser said poor regulation contributed to the problem. The Food and Drug Administration regulates laser devices, but he said the agency was not effectively monitoring the products being sold to consumers through online laser stores.

“Any Tom, Dick and Harry can go to these Web sites and buy an illegal pointer,” Mr. Goldwasser said.

The F.D.A. did not respond to phone calls and e-mails Friday.

Mr. Goldwasser said one online retailer recently sent him a 100-milliwatt pointer, 20 times as powerful than what the law allows and without the required safety devices. Patrick Murphy, executive director of the international laser display association, said he had received a high-powered pointer from the same retailer.

“It would be nice if they didn’t sell this laser, but they feel competitively if they don’t sell it, someone else will,” Mr. Murphy said.

Laser pointers are supposed to bear labels advising users not to aim them at eyes or skin. They are limited to five milliwatts, which Mr. Goldwasser estimates as equal in its effect on the eye as several times the illumination of the noonday sun — painful, but not likely to be harmful in the long term.

On his Web site, LaserPointerSafety.com, Mr. Murphy collects information about the dozens of people around the world who have been charged with shining lasers at airplanes.

Mr. Murphy said several groups should be addressing the issue.

“If a plane were to go down, there would be an overreaction,” he said of any subsequent push to ban lasers. “There would be some justification to that, but the true answer is more complex. Everybody who touches this issue — manufacturers, regulators, pilots, airlines, laser enthusiasts — has a role to play.”

And yes, I'm aware: Guns Don't Kill People... Lazers Do!
 

Michael Yagami

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When issues of "laser control" arise I guess it's safe to say that we've finally arrived at "the future".
 

galfordo

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The pretty interesting article below got me thinking about the question of "laser control".

At sufficient power, can you hunt with them?

More importantly, from a Constitutional standpoint, can you maintain a well regulated Militia without them? Are they "arms"?

You can certainly used a well aimed gun to take down a plane, so what's the difference here? Would or should we allow these to be regulated more than firearms?

Thought this might provide for some discussion.

1) No

2) Yes, No

3) The difference is that optical filters could be put into windshields which would block laser wavelengths, pretty brainless if you ask me. An easier solution might be to have the pilots wear glasses during takeoff which block common laser wavelengths.

No, they shouldn't be



All that being said, any sonofabitch caught shining a laser light at a plan during takeoff should be tossed in the slammer and forgotten about.
 

Marek

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Well you its illegal to scan crowds with large scale concert lighting laser units in the USA, so thats a clue. But its not illegal in Europe. idk.

Those units are no joke really, if you concentrate all the milliwatt-age into a single beam, it can pop balloons, burn the skin, burn the retinas in no time flat.

I agree with galfordo on all points, but I feel like the govt will certainly try to over-regulate them as soon as a sportsman's laser gun is even in prototype stage.
 

lithy

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Ridiculous that instead of working to rightfully convict people found to be pointing lasers at aircraft that we should have to think about regulating laser pointers.

My wife's cousin is in school for an astronomy degree. She has a pretty badass telescope (I've seen Jupiter's moon and nebulas and shit, yo) along with a (probably 'illegal') laser pointer that will shoot a beam that looks like it goes on forever. You can literally point at a star in the sky like mentioned in the article. I had no idea laser tech had gotten this powerful, and cheap to boot.

Of course when a plane does crash people will over-react, want to ban them instead of doing something reasonable. They are a tool, just like every other tool, there are already laws in place that could have someone prosecuted for assault if used to burn or blind someone.

I'll join the laser militia whenever it becomes available though.
 

Lagduf

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This is an interesting topic because there are those who are patiently waiting for the Second Amendment be applied to a broader class of arms. You particularly see this with enthusiasts of knives and other edged weapons, or enthusiasts of various martial arts type weapons.

Knife users want to be afforded essentially the same rights to their weapon(s) of choice as are firearm enthusiasts are and I of course agree with them. In some places Knife laws are quite bizarre and some states even ban certain martial arts equipment (seriously.)

With regard to lasers this will really be a non-issue until there are lasers powerful enough, and easily accessible to citizens, that can be used as weapons and cause serious injury or death within a short period of time (lets say under 10 seconds.)

Otherwise lasers will just be like other common tools like a hammer, saw, or pipe wrench that most rational people would consider tools whose primary purpose is not as a weapon.

Using a laser to blind someone temporarily and cause a vehicle accident would be no different from using a high powered spotlight to do so.


I wish the article went more in depth to what the regulations on lasers were because if lasers were protected under the 2A then currently there (based on what I know) would be no lasers commercially available that citizens shouldn't be allowed to purchase.

I don't know how a citizen could purchase any firearm and then be denied the right to purchase a laser which can only pop a balloon or light a cigarette.

PS: What guns available to civilians can shoot down airplanes? Maybe if the plane is landing, stationary, or just taking off...but still. Too improbable IMO at a major commercial airport.

That exact statement "guns can shoot down airplanes" is why rifles chambered in .50BMG are banned in California.

Nevermind that such a weapon alone costs minimum $5000, that a quality optic to successfully target the airplane is going to cost a couple thousand dollars as well, and then you're looking at a single round of .50BMG that is going to cost $1-3 dollars.

I'm pretty sure we can still have long guns chambered in .50BMG that aren't rifles - like a semi-auto M2.
 
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RabbitTroop

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There is definitely already regulation in place. When Universal Studios Orlando opened, there was a Ghost Busters stage show for a little while. The show was shutdown due to the power of the lasers they were using in it. I remember the stage performers standing outside of the show, remaining in character, saying, "The government has shut us down, folks. Sorry." It seemed like a scene right from the movie. It almost made for a better show than whatever the lasers could have done.
 

Lagduf

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If lasers get moderately more powerful I'm sure the regulation you'll see is when and where you can discharge them as well as when/where you can carry them on your person.

With firearms when/where you can carry them (outside your home) will be the next "battle" in the courts.
 

Lagduf

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I hope some sweet rail guns become available soon.
 

Loopz

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An item of far greater concern is corporate personhood. Fuck that noise.
 

Lagduf

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An item of far greater concern is corporate personhood. Fuck that noise.

I think the thread you are looking for is "Are corporations protected under the first amendment?"

PS: The Supreme Court says yes.
 

Marek

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An item of far greater concern is corporate personhood. Fuck that noise.

Yeah! I love how personal rights are not valued in this society, but as soon as you make a corporation a 'person' everyone bends over backwards for the subtlest violation of its 'rights'.

Things like this make me fantasize about taking the Travis Bickle approach. I never will, but sometimes it feels good to imagine.
 

lithy

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There is definitely already regulation in place. When Universal Studios Orlando opened, there was a Ghost Busters stage show for a little while. The show was shutdown due to the power of the lasers they were using in it. I remember the stage performers standing outside of the show, remaining in character, saying, "The government has shut us down, folks. Sorry." It seemed like a scene right from the movie. It almost made for a better show than whatever the lasers could have done.

I like this story.
 

SonGohan

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What about a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
 

aria

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An item of far greater concern is corporate personhood. Fuck that noise.

Pssh, that's so 1993 rebellious. Thankfully our Corporate Masters have given us other things to prattle on about.
 

SetaSouji??

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The difference is that optical filters could be put into windshields which would block laser wavelengths, pretty brainless if you ask me.

This. They should be more worried about someone making a laser that could downright cut a plane in half. (Give it ten years, it'll happen)
 

Lagduf

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This. They should be more worried about someone making a laser that could downright cut a plane in half. (Give it ten years, it'll happen)

A laser that large would have a huge power source unless we have some revolution in electrical engineering in the next ten years.

That'd be sweet though :emb:

I wonder if the military is still working on lasers to shoot down missiles?
 

Lashujin

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I've only had a couple complaints about this up here, but it is a serious problem for a pilot to be hit with one. That said, I wouldn't consider banning them.
 

aria

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Pssh... in this day and age the 2nd Amendment is pretty worthless as the well regulated militias that a bunch of kooky survivalists could put together would be quickly dispatched by the level of the American military. They might have been able to cause trouble in the late 1700s (and even then not really), but now the actual military is too strong for them to ever be anything more than the kids in Red Dawn (which is probably among their favorite fapping material).

The only solution is to arm back-mountain militias with rocket launchers and lasers. Just in case that Barack Hussein Obama decides to get all uppity. :smirk:
 

alec

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20 posts, no lazertits??? c'mon folks!

tumblr_l39qmx5GFK1qbpe1po1_500.jpg
 

Lagduf

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Pssh... in this day and age the 2nd Amendment is pretty worthless as the well regulated militias that a bunch of kooky survivalists could put together would be quickly dispatched by the level of the American military. They might have been able to cause trouble in the late 1700s (and even then not really), but now the actual military is too strong for them to ever be anything more than the kids in Red Dawn (which is probably among their favorite fapping material).

The only solution is to arm back-mountain militias with rocket launchers and lasers. Just in case that Barack Hussein Obama decides to get all uppity. :smirk:

I like when Bobak is trolling :D

Repeal the Hughes Amendment to 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act and then the backwoods militias will be able to put up a decent fight :vik:
 

Loopz

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I think the thread you are looking for is "Are corporations protected under the first amendment?"

PS: The Supreme Court says yes.

Eventually Citizens United WILL be seen as the Dred Scott moment of the 21st century.
 
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