Basic Religion Test Stumps Many Americans [part 4281 in "Our Glorious Nation"]

SouthtownKid said:

Another AWESOME statement.

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What I mean by that is that Jesus spoke in parables and such (and explained it afterwards too, no room for crazy interpretation), and the rest of the Bible is meant to be taken literally. This is my biggest gripe with a lot of denominations, they too believe it's one big allegory... and to that I say "What is there to believe in, then?"

Good points...be back tomorrow...After 3:00 p.m. pacific time I get busy at work.

Billy Blitz said:

What I mean by that is that Jesus spoke in parables and such (and explained it afterwards too, no room for crazy interpretation), and the rest of the Bible is meant to be taken literally. This is my biggest gripe with a lot of denominations, they too believe it's one big allegory... and to that I say "What is there to believe in, then?"

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All right, I'll bite. How do you feel about the issues of slavery and stoning then? If the Bible is the literal truth and word of god, it should be fine, right? Or is it just a parable? I don't see how you can have it both ways.

SouthtownKid said:

Billy Blitz is ki_atsushi? I can't keep up with this stuff.

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yeah... ki_atsushi is a better name. Sometimes people can't and shouldn't recreate themselves.

That said, Mike Shagohod is a crappy name change.

HeartlessNinny said:

All right, I'll bite. How do you feel about the issues of slavery and stoning then? If the Bible is the literal truth and word of god, it should be fine, right? Or is it just a parable? I don't see how you can have it both ways.

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Slavery in Israel wasn't the same as American slavery.

In Israel back in those times, if you fell into debt you couldn't pay off you sold yourself into slavery for a pre-determined period of time, after which you're debts were considered paid in full. No one was taken into slavery by force.

Which is where the story of the dulos (bond servant) came from. A bond servant is one who has completed their time as an indentured servant, and willingly chooses to stay a servant to his/her master. As a sign of this, an awl is thrust through his/her ear and a ring inserted so people are aware of their status as a bond servant.

Oops, forgot to respond to the stoning part. Stoning was traditionally for blasphemy and adultery.

That was their death penalty. Our death penalty is lethal injection. Meh, personally I'm on the fence about giving people the death penalty, but it's been around forever.

Billy Blitz said:

Slavery in Israel wasn't the same as American slavery.

In Israel back in those times, if you fell into debt you couldn't pay off you sold yourself into slavery for a pre-determined period of time, after which you're debts were considered paid in full. No one was taken into slavery by force.

Which is where the story of the dulos (bond servant) came from. A bond servant is one who has completed their time as an indentured servant, and willingly chooses to stay a servant to his/her master. As a sign of this, an awl is thrust through his/her ear and a ring inserted so people are aware of their status as a bond servant.

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Billy Blitz said:

Oops, forgot to respond to the stoning part. Stoning was traditionally for blasphemy and adultery.

That was their death penalty. Our death penalty is lethal injection. Meh, personally I'm on the fence about giving people the death penalty, but it's been around forever.

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Those are pretty non-committal answers (and thanks, by the way, for the history lesson I didn't need — I was aware of what you told me already).

You didn't really answer the question. Do you think it should be permissible to keep slaves and stone people to death? Yes or no.

HeartlessNinny said:

Those are pretty non-committal answers (and thanks, by the way, for the history lesson I didn't need — I was aware of what you told me already).

You didn't really answer the question. Do you think it should be permissible to keep slaves and stone people to death? Yes or no.

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Those aren't really proper yes or no questions without some context.

In the context of American slavery, no. In Biblical context, personally if someone owed me money and had no way to pay me back other than physical labor, sure.

And like I said, I'm on the fence about capital punishment. I say getting rid of the bad eggs is a good thing, however it is kinda the easy way out for them, isn't it? It would be a greater punishment to let them rot in a 5x7 for the rest of their life. But if you keep them in jail for life, it's a huge burden on the tax payers. But I guess if it came down to it, yes.

These are pretty complex topics for simple yes or no answers, bud.

All right, I'll take that as a yes on both counts.

Nice dodge on the slavery thing by the way. "I, uh, don't mean slaves like we did in America! I'd totally be nice to my slaves."

Billy Blitz said:

Oops, forgot to respond to the stoning part. Stoning was traditionally for blasphemy and adultery.

That was their death penalty. Our death penalty is lethal injection. Meh, personally I'm on the fence about giving people the death penalty, but it's been around forever.

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Or, for planting two types of crops in the same field (crop rotation is of the devil!).

Billy Blitz said:

Ok, I see some major differences in the way JW's believe here.



I was with you until here. Why do people make up stuff when it is clearly explained in the Bible? Crucifixion was a common form of Roman capital punishment. Where did the stake idea come from?



You missed the part where Jesus spent 3 days in the heart of the earth ministering to the righteous who were held there until his arrival. Then he was resurrected after 3 days and ascended into heaven.



Ok, you're doing good here until...



Ok, first of all, the 144,000 that are mentioned in the Bible are clearly identified as Jews who will be 'sealed' until the end, to witness to the world of God's impending return.

The surviving righteous people of the 'end times' will be part of the Millennial Kingdom. The believers will not be resurrected in their old bodies, but will be granted new bodies... like Jesus had when he was resurrected (walking through walls, instantaneous travel, etc. ). The believers will help rule in the Millennial Kingdom.

The Earth is not the final disposition of man. After the 1,000 years and Satan and the final group of unrighteous people are finally dealt with, a New Jerusalem will be constructed after the old universe 'burns with a fervent heat'.

The 'Lake of Fire' is Satan's & the fallen angels final disposition, and 'outer darkness' is reserved for the unrighteous, where 'there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth', and 'the canker worm dieth not'.

It's unfortunate at how much division there is on God's word.

Yeah, these guys are going to think we're crazy.

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I was giving you info in a nutshell....I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or start a debate...just sharing my faith.

The original greek translation was stake (The cross idea was created by man) Side note: my mom (not a JW) went to Israel this summer and even the tour guide told them Jesus was killed on a stake not a cross - she's blows it off and doesn't talk about it - Ha Ha The cross idea is huge, especially for catholics, but they don't want to hear it. People are afraid of change or admit their teachings are false.


So...the scripture in Matthew indicating the Good News will be preached then the end will come is referring to the 144,000...hmm. Your point regarding the 144,000 doesn't flow with the rest of the scriptures.

New Kingdom (Heaven - it was already cleansed when Satan was kicked out to cause trouble on earth)

New Jerusalem is the new earth...yes...when Satan and his demons are destroyed...the earth wasn't created for nothing

The Bible says there is gonna be a lot of division.

You are 100% sure and so I am...we are wasting each others time

zapatistab said:

You are 100% sure and so I am...we are wasting each others time

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The definition of this thread.

TerryMasters said:

The definition of this thread.

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Yeah, but several people are wrong --but really, who cares? It doesn't matter in the end.

Hey, I found it pretty interesting to find out that we have two members that basically condone slavery. Surprised, too. I thought Christians are supposed to be a loving people, after all.

HeartlessNinny said:

Hey, I found it pretty interesting to find out that we have two members that basically condone slavery. Surprised, too. I thought Christians are supposed to be a loving people, after all.

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Your still dwelling on that...

zapatistab said:

Your still dwelling on that...

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I think he's waiting to be made an example of.

zapatistab said:

Your still dwelling on that...

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It brings up a valid question

Why didn't Jesus preach against slavery?

wasabi said:

It brings up a valid question

Why didn't Jesus preach against slavery?

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Because Slavery wasn't an issue. Slaves were treated like family. People were always treated badly in general, but Romans and Egyptians were the ones who abused their slaves. Jesus wasn't a supporter of Rome or Egypt.

Stop allowing hollywood and the history channel influence your thinking.

zapatistab said:

Because Slavery wasn't an issue. Slaves were treated like family. People were always treated badly in general, but Romans and Egyptians were the ones who abused their slaves. Jesus wasn't a supporter of Rome or Egypt.

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Obviously slaves existed throughout the bible, but do you really think that they were treated like family? Do you think that slaves could whip their masters, and force their masters' wives to lie with them and bear their children? Come on, man.

The bible doesn't have any beef with slavery. It's sad.

zapatistab said:

Your still dwelling on that...

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What, you're surprised? It's a pretty hot button issue, especially in America.

Plus wasabi is right. It's a pretty clear contradiction to me.

zapatistab said:

Because Slavery wasn't an issue. Slaves were treated like family. People were always treated badly in general, but Romans and Egyptians were the ones who abused their slaves. Jesus wasn't a supporter of Rome or Egypt.

Stop allowing hollywood and the history channel influence your thinking.

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This is my point: You'd rather defend the institution of slavery and attempt to justify it somehow (really! it was okay!) than say that the Bible might have gotten something wrong.

That is the sum total of my point. And I think it's utterly deplorable. To be perfectly frank, I think it reveals you as someone of poor moral character.

And get the fuck out of here with your 'Hollywood' and 'History Channel' shit. Slavery is slavery. It's fucking wrong, and it always will be. In no circumstances whatsoever is it morally permissible. Ever!

Ok...you guys are correct and I am wrong...since I have faith in the Bible then I support Slavery...I'm gonna discuss with my wife...we need a slave. Raising a family makes it difficult to keep the house clean all the time. A slave will resolve that issue.

I want to stop looking at this thread, but I can't. It's like, a paradigm or something.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just saying that maybe your views on the Bible could use some further contemplation, if nothing else. Have you ever thought about this before? Do you agree with the premise that slavery is always wrong? These are important questions.

JW's are really devout, because those watchtowers have saints with loaded bolt action rifles. Any disagreement results in fierce reign down style mafia punishment, in light of wahabi upper class muslim style tyranny.

Nah, seriously...
My view? All scripture is metaphorical leading of right and wrong. It is a simplicity. Religion has been corrupted due to the many mutated versions of everything.
Trying to be more faithful and devout does not secure you more then any other.. In some ways I agree about all people being leveled in dust, a Zoroastrian belief, you are as vulnerable and ready to be destroyed as anyone else.


Even if nothing in religion is true, a lot of good can be had from the lessons of jesus, guru nanak, muhammed, etc. Everything is corrupted by varying creativity from humans in its issue of interpretation, which if lead by emotions on a personal level is easily modified. In fact, this corruption itself is what makes it special, the fact we do not know. Where it goes wrong is judging and pushing others out. This is why I'm critical of JW's and Christians a lot of the time. This mentality of '1st in line' believers. Its not even good. Its a invisible caste system.. Its actually evil on a true level.

Think about it, if god is all knowing and all powerful, and he loves you, why does not believing doom a person? Not believing is a totally normal and positive experience to being human. I personally don't feel a god would want to be cared about or worshiped in that way. Nothing about it makes sense. Its a diffusion of responsibility. Submission to Christ is in its purist form should be submission to just being a good person. Regardless of where we exist in death or on what metaphysical level. Earth is not endless suffering.

I'm really skeptical of new religions that pop up, and the people who most believe judge others. Its not hypocritical to point out christian/JW's are notorious for this, because they are, and being a exception to the rule doesn't make it less true.