why do people get so mad about conversions

m_bish0p said:

SNKP asked Shawn to help them stop conversions. They release the home carts for a reason, and they don't like people just going off and making whatever they want.

Personally, I think it's your right. I think if you buy something, you should be able to modify it any way you please, and my argument against Conversions isn't based on that at all.

But, Since SNKP has come right out and tried to stop Conversions, I think you're on shakey ground trying to say that the fact that they did it makes it somehow okay.

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When Shawn was trying to be the official US NGH distributor, SNK asked Shawn to remove all the conversion information displayed in this HP with the argument that the "official" distributor couldn´t encourage conversions.

I think SNK did right asking Shawn to remove the conversion information, it would be like Nintendo USA posting info in their HP about how to mod a GC to play imports.

metallizer said:

SNK have done conversions, just look here .

Yes, SNK actually killed a WH2 MVS cart and an AOF MVS cart to do a PDP MVS cart.

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Im rapidly falling in love with you....

metallizer said:

SNK have done conversions, just look here .

Yes, SNK actually killed a WH2 MVS cart and an AOF MVS cart to do a PDP MVS cart.

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Sorry, but SNK owns the copyright so they can do it. People who do this at home doesn't, and here's the difference. SNK used spare parts from an overproduced product that never reached the market, see this as recycling.

Personally, I agree that as long as you use original parts you are not doing anything that wrong, and the comparision with buying import software is quite good. I just don't like the process, and that's all, and quite some people here is agreeing. But do as you want, I don't care anyway.

HEY! DO WHAT YOU WANT

BUT DON'T DO IT AROUND ME

Amano Jacu said:

And now board history lesson for you. The idea of closing the doors to new members was brought by Tarma some time ago, and I OPPOSED that idea in that thread, look for it if you want. Then Tarma posted in another stupid thread made by a Noob, saying that we should have closed doors. Tarma's number is a bit more than 2000 and mine is a bit less than 2000, that's why I made a (oh the horror, a joke) and said "yeah, cut it at exactly 2000" as it was a nice number and it left me in and him out, so I "counterattacked" his closing doors idea. Obviously I had no intention to have this seriously done.

I

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It was merely a suggestion to cut the tollerance of trolls. As it is things have improved a lot since then. T'was an extereme suggestion I know, but quality over quantity is my motto

Anyway...

Conversions are just a total grey area. Yes, many of them use genuine 'parts' but it is still not an official AES release, and therefore should never be passed off as one.
The term 'bootleg' has always refered to a fake or illeagal copy - ie a copy that does not contain genuine parts.
So, a conversion of say, Zupapa! that contains eproms is a bootleg, but a conversion that does not is merely that - a conversion; an unoffical AES cartridge.

However, I would class a conversion of an offically released AES title as a bootleg because it is a copy of something that actually exists.
AES releases of Prehistoric Isle 2, Zupapa!, Money Puzzle Exchanger etc. do not exist in any offical form. So, they can only be classed as mvs conversions.

I appreciate why people buy bootleg AEs titles, and really the blame for a market being created, can only lie with those who pushed the price up beyond unreasonable levels. Those people would probably argue though that demand outstripped supply and therefore the games went to the highest bidder.
It is something of a vicious cirlce. In general I do not advocate the creations of bootleg conversions of offically released titles.

As for the unreleased games. the mvs ONLY titles, until such time as offical releases are manufactured (never likely), conversions of these games are an excellent way for the AES owner to enjoy SNK product. Yes, there is the Phantom 1, but I'm not entirely convinced it would be a worthwhile investment, and I've read too many complaints about its design to make me feel comfortable buying one. I don't fancy knackering my AES, or me for the sake of an mvs cart.

There are those that argue that the phantom 1 is also illeagal because mvs carts are not for home use, so thererfore an AES conversion of an mvs only title would only seem logical, because you're transfering the game to homeformat.

It is a shame that you lose a game to create a game in this process, but I would rather have a conversion using genuine SNK parts than one made up of eprom burns.

Yes, I do own a handful of conversions of unreleased mvs games, but no bootleg conversions of offical AES releases.

In short:

AES conversions of mvs only titles = yes.

AES conversions of titles offically released in AES format = no.

metallizer said:

When Shawn was trying to be the official US NGH distributor, SNK asked Shawn to remove all the conversion information displayed in this HP with the argument that the "official" distributor couldn´t encourage conversions.

If think SNK did right asking Shawn to remove the conversion information, it would be like Nintendo USA posting info in their HP about how to mod a GC to play imports.

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And??

You've just further proven my point. SNKP doesn't want you to do it. I agree that it's for 'Stupid business' reasons, but that's THIER business.

The bottom line is that, if SNKP wanted you to have a Metal Slug AES Cart, they would make another run of them.

Maybe it's the conversions that have stopped them from doing a re-release? I know that's the weakest argument I've ever made, but it's possible.

The point is that they want people to play the games *AS THEY ARE RELEASED* so that they can control the market.

Personally, I think it just encourages people to do conversions and ROMZ.

Very good points, Tarma, but still, I don't agree with the idea of "conversions of MVS-only titles are good, conversions of AES released games aren't".

So what? If you want to have a Metal Slug AES, you need to start looking for one and pay around 2000$ for it, and if you don't have (or don't want to spend) that much money) and get a conversion you are cheap? And is it OK to convert a Shock Troopers just because you can't have an original one, not even for 10000$?

As I said, there are the same ways in both cases to have it in original MVS form, so, at least for me, they are the same. I know most people doesn't agree with me on this.

And by the way, if you look at it this way, the MVS games were never intended for use at home, not through an AES or supergu n or private cab or whatever, so under this situation it would be the same to convert the cart than playing it at home unconverted.

As we said this is a gray area open to many intepretations. I agree that a conversion made with original parts is clear gray, and one with EEPROMS is very dark. But I don't see the difference between converting a Shock Troopers and a Metal Slug.

This statement is not made to choose either side. I'm wondering why people are complaining. The bottom line is......these games were already PURCHASED. There are no warranties for a Fatal Fury 3 or Sam Sho 3 as they probably originally had 90 day warranties to begin with. There will never be any solidarity on this subject. The ones that want conversions...buy them. The ones that don't want conversions....don't buy them. Here is my question to you all. Remember, this is just a question.

Since there are only 3 "known" copies of Euro Kizuna Encounter, how does everyone gain a copy? Do we all take turns coming up with $11,000 to buy the game so that we can play, or do we all buy a Neo Cabinet and then try to hunt down a Kizuna MVS Kit to play? If SNKP truly wants to stop the bootlegging...re-release Metal Slug, Ultimate 11,Kizuna Encounter. Everyone of us that support the Homecart System would be willing to spend $335 for a NEW homecart release...especially considering you spend damn near that much...if not more for a conversion that doesn't include a manual.

I don't know about alot of you...I don't care if my cart is 1st run or 2nd run or last run. A complete collection is just that.....a complete collection. The only people who wouldn't want this to happen are the people who currently own these Uber-Rare Expensive Carts. SNKP can only stand to profit from this. Who wouldn't want to get these 3 games to complete their collection at the current New Home Cart price if they were official releases?

Remember, I am not choosing either sides argument. I'm just saying....Playmore might want to consider this as an option...even if they only released 150 units of each title.

Just a thought!

Bring forth the FLAMES!!!!

Phillip

Hypothetically,

If SNKP were to re-release these Euro titles. Could you see the Ebay descriptions for these titles:

EURO KIZUNA ENCOUNTER AES

This is the Mona Lisa Rare 1ST "ORIGINAL" release of this game. Do not confuse this with the inferior duplicate run. Act now as there are only 3 KNOWN 1st run copies. If you use "BUY IT NOW" ($12,500.00), I will give you FREE Overnight Insured Shipping! Remember there are only 3 KNOWN 1ST RUN copies. Act now as you never know when the next ORIGINAL one will be sold!!!!!


Phillip

You all know that this would happen....and that's NO BULLSHIT LIE!!!!!!

Amano Jacu said:

Very good points, Tarma, but still, I don't agree with the idea of "conversions of MVS-only titles are good, conversions of AES released games aren't".

So what? If you want to have a Metal Slug AES, you need to start looking for one and pay around 2000$ for it, and if you don't have (or don't want to spend that much money) and get a conversion you are cheap?

However, a Shock Troopers is OK because you can't have an original one, not even for 10000$.

As I said, there are the same ways in both cases to have it in original MVS form, so, at least for me, they are the same. I know most people doesn't agree with me on this.

And by the way, if you look at it this way, the MVS games were never intended for use at home, not through an AES or supergu n or private cab or whatever, so under this situation it would be the same to convert the cart than playing it at home unconverted.

As we said this is a gray area open to many intepretations. I agree that a conversion made with original parts is clear gray, and one with EEPROMS is very dark. But I don't see the difference between converting a Shock Troopers and a Metal Slug.

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I thoroughly respect your opinion and you illustrate some good points too

Yes, there is huge amount of varying interpretation over conversions, and it would be nice if it was all a bit more clear cut.

I would not say that I think it's 'good' to sac AES carts for mvs conversions, but it is a means to and end, and a convienence more than anything else as some titles I want are not available on AES (officailly) nor on Neo CD.

On eBay now we're seeing bootlegs are games that come under the $500 bracket such as MS2 and X, and Pulstar. Even games like Overtop and TSS are being bootlegged and can be easily found way under $1,000.

A key problem I suppose is that a lot of people are trying to get into AES gaming who cannot really afford to do so because of the high value of many of the better and more recent releases. These people create a demand for bootlegs because they cannot afford the real McCoy. I don't wish to sound elitest or like a snob, but AES has NEVER EVER been a cheap gaming platform, and these people should really realise this and take it into account before buying the console.

I suppose I'll just stick with my neutral viewpoint for the time being.

Personally, I don't like conversions. First of all, I pity every cart that has to be sac'ced in the process; countless FF3's have been cracked open and turned into Slug 1's and stuff like that, just because some ppl rather invest their money in a shiny homecart than a small MVS home setup or a Phantom where they could play all the MVS-exclusive titles and the games that are expensive on homecart for about the same price they'd pay for a very good conversion.

What's more, more often than not good conversions appear on various selling channels over the time without being advertised as such; remember the Kyokugen Slug 1 case? It wasn't even a particularly good conversion, but it was enough to fool the buyer into thinking he'd bid on the real thing. Shit like that wouldn't happen if there weren't so many people that only want to have another nice spine on their shelf.

I know that there are ppl that have their ethics when dealing with conversions, but the "gray area" Tarma mentioned is bigger than most if you would think... ...have you checked your Slug 1 lately?

acem77 said:

i had metal slug 1 mvs added to my ss2 aes cart.
both games still work great just flip a switch to play the game you want.

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acem77 said:

there is a switch on top of the aes/ss2 cart to let me select the game i want to play.

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It's before noon here so my brain isn't fully alert yet, maybe I'm reading this wrong. You have SS2 and MS1 in a single AES cart with a switch that lets you select the game? Never heard of such a thing and I can't imagine how it could be done with original MVS parts, can anyone elaborate?

Re: Re: why do people get so mad about conversions

NeoGoaT said:

It's before noon here so my brain isn't fully alert yet, maybe I'm reading this wrong. You have SS2 and MS1 in a single AES cart with a switch that lets you select the game? Never heard of such a thing and I can't imagine how it could be done with original MVS parts, can anyone elaborate?

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Oh well, I was as surprised as you, and I got this answer from Kyo Geo:

Didnt know or believe that you can get 2 games on one cart? This just further shows your ignorance. I guess the neo bomberman and panic bomber cart that I saw at Clear Papers house last month was a figmant of my imagination, eh?

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I just don't know how that works, as I'm proud to say I've never dealt with conversions.

I'm not anti-conversion nor do I doubt that two games could be stuffed into one home cart, just curious about all aspects of Neo tech. Is this dual game conversion malarky documented anywhere on the net or could anyone give a quick description of the method involved. I'd imagine it must get pretty messy in there if original parts are used, two sets of chips and a few feet of wire at least.

Robert said:

Always the same thread over and over. Same arguments and same answers. To say something fresh for this kind of subject I will say that conversions are legit if they are made by Playmore.

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IF Playmore (or SNK) would do that,they wouldn't be conversions anymore-just plain simple original AES-carts.

I wondered if they really 'converted' MVS into AES (or the other way round) ...but we wouldn't know anyway.

I knew someone that had a conversion van years ago. That thing got a lot of play time.

m_bish0p said:

It's not like we can't still be friends.

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yeah good stuff

great days

bottom line is a conversion is not illegal.
moding a games system
to play imports, ,
adding power leds, stereo mods ,
display svideo graphics,
moding the case
is not illegal.
it is just not supported by snk.
they don't want you changing a dang thing.
no company wants you to.
the most they can do to try and stop you is to terminate your warranty.
it is your own free will to do what you want with it.
just like cars you can mix up any parts you want as long as it is not made from hot parts.
if you have the last original red 1957 chevy in the world it is your right to paint it blue if you wish.
if i was a billionaire i could buy up every neo cart and make neobrick-cart house from it and nobody could do a thing about it.
if every company had their way it would be illegal to do any little change to any thing.
but we have laws that some times protect us to keep us away from a companies best interest $$$$$.
there are laws against bootleging/copeis to protect the company.
to say some one is cheap because they dont buy a $2000 game is just stupid.
each person knows how much they can spend.
it is up to each person to buget their own standards of living.
for what i make it would just be fing retarded for me to spend $2000 on just one game.
lets see my full neo-geo collection with 28 real titles value is around $3000+
i could buy a metal slug aes and not have 90% of my other games lets see what is a smarter choice?? :P
i dont think it is cheap it is get the most bang for your buck.
at least i buy the games. fing cheap is some rom whore that never buys a thing.
i have every neo geo rom i can find. but the games i like i do buy. not like i want to spend 300+ and not like a game.
i know it is better to have some one in the neo-geo scene like me than not. i do buy a few new aes tiltes a year and i have plans to buy more.
i dont have every official neo product but every bit counts.
snk is just a little stupid if you ask me if they dont release a title that is in such
high demand.

now conversions are good for playing puzzle bobble on your aes and games that are on mvs only and you dont sacrifice a cart you just turn it into a mvs cart and that means it is best for both worlds

how did u do sam show 2 and a metal slug 1 in one cart that is amazing knowledge

buster_broon said:

yeah the thing is i am not into conversions

if the game was available at a decent price i would get it - the real mccoy

but paying over 2000usd for 1 game - my wife would cut my balls off, so for 250usd i can get a conversion of an otherwise game i would never have owned

out of the 15 conversions i have, 5 are available on the home format but these games are either super expensive or i just dont rate them to spend £300+ on them

my top 3 most expensive games are (this is where you see the tight arse scotsman)

3/ strikers 1945plus = $360
2/ METAL SLUG X = $450
1/ Prehistoric isle 2 = $460

so out of the 3 most expensive games i own - 2 are conversions, but they look absolutely amazing

why dont you buy a cheap mvs game like a bare world heroes and buy an aes metal slug and convert it to mvs - i wonder who many people will be upset then

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hi buster
could you post some pics of your conversions id be interested in seeing them

Trevor spencer said:

hi buster
could you post some pics of your conversions id be interested in seeing them

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you have been pm'd

From the standpoint that SNK got their money for the MVS and AES cart I agree that conversions are just fine and dandy.

But I disagree that so many of these carts will be effectively destroyed, decreasing the population of FF3 and others. Its like hunting wild animals, and its sad.

But social darwinism says survival of the fittest. Nobody will stop making conversions. Nothing you can do about that. The only thing you can do is to just not buy them.

Bulletnyourass said:

This statement is not made to choose either side. I'm wondering why people are complaining. The bottom line is......these games were already PURCHASED. The ones that want conversions...buy them. The ones that don't want conversions....don't buy them.

...


Remember, I am not choosing either sides argument. I'm just saying....Playmore might want to consider this as an option...even if they only released 150 units of each title.

Just a thought!

Bring forth the FLAMES!!!!

Phillip

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Not only will I not flame you, but I will stand by your side with a firehose... I couldn't agree with you more. SNKP would make some good money rereleasing the old stuff once again. I can think of a half-dozen titles I'd want to buy if they did that.

But if SNKP were to re-release older games, would that devalue existing 1st run stuff? Would MS1, MOTW, etc drop in value?

I think some people get mad at conversions because you
have to sacrafice a cart to do it.

I don't think conversions are that bad, I myself have some,
right buster

Although I only have conversions of MVS only games, but I also
buy the MVS kit for that game as well, otherwise I would feel
it's incomplete.