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Thread: Homebrew Game Developing on Neo

  1. #1


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    Question Homebrew Game Developing on Neo

    I've been thinking on this, & would like to hear from the experts (not NGF, dont waste my time), especially Jeff Kurtz, Trey, MouseMaster & others who are developing home brew titles.

    How doable is it guys? Is the technology out there outside of a Neo dev kit? Will we ever see it? In MVS or emu form? If enough people pitch in (artists & such), do you ever think it will be feasible to produce original titles, especially original fighters? Say along the same graphical quality as FFS? I've been hand drawing an original sprite for MUGEN (DAMN hard, makes u appreciate the beauty of 2D dev all the more), just dreaming I guess.

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    Some very good questions, and some I would love to hear answered as well. As for my input, I don't think we will see any fighters... atleast I doubt it. It would be to hard to get everything to even a Fight Fever level (I would be impressed if they could do that good) and the truth is, you have to make something really good these days in the fighter dept to even warrant continuing... We have all played crappy fighters, and even they had tons and tons of time and coding spent on them.

    What I do think is totally realistic is puzzle games, and simple action games. One title in particular... Neo Pac-Man. If Kurtz never release the psuedo Pac-Mania clone on the Neo, I will personally go over there and kill him I would love that game, especially since Pac-Mania is my favorite Pac game! I think a lot of simplier games can be done very well on the Neo, and can really bring excitiment into the community. Just think if someone creates the next tetris like puzzler for new... It doesn't have to look or sound fancy, but it is addicitive as all hell... WELL it could happen.

    Anyway, just my thoughts on it,

    -Nick

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    Well, a true fighter is questionable. Jeff can better answer this, but I think that with the tools currently available, that making a decent fighter would not work out too well because we would be unable to push the limits of the Neo using a programming language such as C. It would need to be almost pure 68K ASM.

    As far as making a real game, yes, most of the pieces are out there, and I am sure there is much more now, although I have not really spoken to the others about it in a month. Games can be created for the cart systems, or for CD. CD would be the best testing and distribution media (besides the EMU), any cartridge would still require to kill another game though.

    Whats a major factor for game development on the Neo? Once you get past the learning curve, its the time involved. Unfortunately, I have none these days, until life normalizes again. And I have no clue when that will happen. I know Jeff is still doing some work, making tools and other goodies. Hopefully he can reply tomorrow and give you some more info.

    Keith

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    I can draw and would love to pitch in.

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    Making an SNK NEO GEO game would be awesome. I have 3D animation experience and can also lend a hand if need be Gargoyle7. LMK

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    Sure, homebrew on the Neo is very doable. There are some links floating around that point you to basic tools to get you started.

    You could do a fighter if you wanted. I just choose not to because I'm not a fighting game fan. I like adventures and puzzlers -- something that makes you think.

    I've been expanding a library of routines to make development on the Neo easier. Along with that, I've written tools to make working with sprites and sounds easier too.

    Someday I'll get around to putting something out there. I've thought about starting up a neo homebrew site/forum for this very reason.

    My only problem when it comes to making a game to release is the artwork. Nobody wants to see a main character that looks like a block. I could release the Pac clone that I wrote, but it uses ripped gfx from another game, so I really can't put it out.

    I've worked with a few people here & there and they usually give me a couple frames of annimation or something, but then their interest dies out and I don't hear from them for months.

    Good artwork for a video game is a lot of work, and a lot of people just don't feel like making that type of commitment, especially when you have some hardware rules that you must follow in order for the sprites to work right, which makes it even harder.

    Anymore, artists are used to using 32bit palettes, 3D animation tools, and then when I tell them they must limit the image(s) to 15 colors per 16x16 pixel area, they get stuck :/ It requires a lot of work for the artist, or a specialized set of tools, which we just don't have in the homebrew community.

    I have found a decent paint program that is geared towards game developers (GBC and GBA) which you can set palette restrictions, etc. It does help with Neo requirements, but a lot of good it does someone that isn't an artist.

    It would be nice to have the tools that SNK used.

    I have a dozen game ideas that I would love to do on the Neo, some of them pretty simple and I think people would enjoy them, but putting together a team of people to work on a game from a very narrow group (the Neo community) cuts back on the talent pool.

    Jeff

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    If there are tools out there for the Neo, how about the Hyper? That would create a lot less restrictions on the developer.
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    Coming from a different direction, wouldn't it be more feasible to get an existing Neo Geo rom and tweaking it more and more until the final result is fairly different from the original? For starters, a simpler game like Blue's Journey being changed to a game like Super Mario Bros.
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    <img src="graemlins/eye.gif" border="0" alt="[Eye]" />

    I'm up for it

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    Maybe you could get some of the tools that Playmore gives its programmers. They have third party developers so maybe you could sign up on their payroll. Naturally you would need about 20 other people to complete your job. Why don't you tell them that you would finish the Magician Lord 2 proto? You would have some of the work already done for you and that might make things easier.

  11. #11
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    Whoa whoa-

    I'm a semi-pro artist, and aspiring character designer/production designer and I would love to do some character artwork/animation-

    It wouldn't be hard to do like 10 or 12 frame characters for adventure or puzzle games.

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    &lt;twocents&gt;
    Hmmm... I'd like to see a traditional RPG on the Neo (SSRPG doesn't count, because it wasn't a cart, and KoF Kyo doesn't count either because it wasn't on the Neo... not to say that I don't love those games, tho' ^^)...
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    [quote]Originally posted by JMKurtz:
    <strong>I've worked with a few people here & there and they usually give me a couple frames of annimation or something, but then their interest dies out and I don't hear from them for months.
    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Oh man... This is exactly what happened to me in college. I had the engine done for a pretty decent Dating game for the Macintosh. We were going to do a mockery type worst date simulator... It was pretty funny, I found great artists all who were excited about the project, but none ever completed more than a few hand drawn sketches of characters. After a while I got discouraged and tried to find more artists, same thing happened. Currently I am working on my web site, I asked an artist friend of mine to come up with a cutesy type mascot (something Parappaish)... 6 months still nothing more then a half sketch of a panda. LAME! What is with artist being the laziest sons of bitches this earth has ever seen <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />

    Man I wish I could draw, I envy you all with that talent. I would do so much with it... or maybe I would be lazy too... who knows. Anyway, Jeff, I can definitely relate to that,

    -Nick

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    Damn artsey guys never like to do any work. They are big talkers but don't do shit in the end. If I had talent in this field I would love to lend a helping hand. However, I don't know how I would start even taking on a project. IS there anyway for you to contact Playmore and ask them for the tools to make a game for the Neo Geo Home System? Even if you do program the game, how are you going to produce it? Perhaps you will use the same methods as your production of ZinTrick. Just a thought.

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    [quote]Originally posted by nruva:
    <strong>

    Oh man... This is exactly what happened to me in college. I had the engine done for a pretty decent Dating game for the Macintosh. We were going to do a mockery type worst date simulator... It was pretty funny, I found great artists all who were excited about the project, but none ever completed more than a few hand drawn sketches of characters. After a while I got discouraged and tried to find more artists, same thing happened. Currently I am working on my web site, I asked an artist friend of mine to come up with a cutesy type mascot (something Parappaish)... 6 months still nothing more then a half sketch of a panda. LAME! What is with artist being the laziest sons of bitches this earth has ever seen <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />

    Man I wish I could draw, I envy you all with that talent. I would do so much with it... or maybe I would be lazy too... who knows. Anyway, Jeff, I can definitely relate to that,

    -Nick</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Do you have anything specific in mind in terms of the mascot you want for your site?

    I might be able to help you...

  16. #16
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    yeah, I am working on a MUD that also has some basic 2D graphics and I do a weekly comic at <a href="http://www.coredumpcomic.org" target="_blank">www.coredumpcomic.org</a>

    I've tried many times to get some help with these, and other, projects. I know I'm not the greatest artist, but it sucks whent he comic is about half as good as it could be, because I don't have the time I need to draw it. I'm doing one tonight, and I'll be lucky if I have an hour to put the whole thing together and post it.

    Anyway, I know all about frustrations with help. I have people offering me to help on my projects all the time. Fans of the comic and people who want to play the MUD, but they never *DO* anything. That's how I end up sleeping three hours a night at least twice a week.

    Well, I'd offer my help, but I'm too busy right now as it is, and I refuse to promise something and then not deliver. If you have the time kurtz, I'd still love to see a site dedicated to programming the neo. I did a little GB work, and loved it.
    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    I've currently got: Mame, Neo 29, Neo 14, Virtual-on twin, CPS2(Street Fighter Alpha2), Final Fight, Pac Man, Klax

  17. #17
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    I think it would be cool to see some home brews for the neo and I certainly would give my services for the development of any games eps. fighters even though they would be the hardest to develop.

  18. #18
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    Jeff, I'd be interested in knowing more about designing animations to be used in a Neo game. Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated. If you could, send me a PM or email with info and what programs you would recommend I use.

    Thanks,
    The Chief

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    I'm always open to discussing the tech info of programming on the Neo (at least what I know, there's more to learn). Drop me a line at jmkurtz@columbus.rr.com and I'll glady describe how sprites need to be drawn/created to be used on the Neo.

    I'm thinking of opening a site for Neo homebrew development where we can have discussions of projects, etc. I also have an idea for a "community" game that I would love for people to participate in.

    This would also allow us to discuss tool design, compiling code, etc.

    What's everyone's opinion on a site dedicated to Neo homebrew?

    For any of the artists that are serious about putting a little time and effort into a project, feel free to drop me a line at any time.

    Jeff

  21. #21
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    After playing Animal Crossing, and working with the 16 color palette restriction, I spent a week doing nothing but making restricted sprites on my PC.

    I'd love to do some work for you.
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  22. #22
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    site dedicated to neo homebrew?

    woah, whats the URL? I cant wait to learn more about one of my favourite systems.

  23. #23


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    Thumbs up

    If development as a group ever started, I agree we should start SIMPLE, going with simple yet addictive gameplay. Something like a simple 'Ghouls n' Ghosts' platformer with levels.

    I'd LOVE a homebrew site, & would contribute all I could.

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  24. #24
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    [quote]Originally posted by JMKurtz:
    <strong>
    Anymore, artists are used to using 32bit palettes, 3D animation tools, and then when I tell them they must limit the image(s) to 15 colors per 16x16 pixel area, they get stuck :/ It requires a lot of work for the artist, or a specialized set of tools, which we just don't have in the homebrew community.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Sounds difficult to me.......
    I know nothing about video game programming but how can SNK artists manage to use limited colors in Neo game?

  25. #25
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    I'm going to be taking a video game design course at my college and would like to help in making home brew game.
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