Please don't sell MVS inserts.

Hinge

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Oct 30, 2000
Posts
205
Stuff like this makes me not want to work on them anymore.

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075585" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075585</a>
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075585" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075585</a>
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075837" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075837</a>
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075991" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220075991</a>
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220076097" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=3220076097</a>

He's also selling other people's inserts in his MVS packages.

Please distribute FREELY and without intent to profit.

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: Hinge ]</small>
 

candycab

Vice's Love Slave
Joined
May 3, 2002
Posts
2,167
Cant say I blame you , but I would expect this since the insert has become part of the persons collection and definitly enhances the cart.

but if someone was to sell just the insert that would be way out of bounds,

Bye the way your inserts kick mega ass ! buttrock
 

TheBigBB

Formerly known as dmhawkmoon
Joined
May 5, 2002
Posts
6,117
Hmmm maybe I am missing something, but I don't see the big problem here. A shockbox has a value. Printing the inserts costs money. I doubt he will profit on these any more than what the price of the printing and the shockbox cost anyway. Are these auctions going for a lot? I mean, if I was selling my MVS games that are in shockboxes I'd want to include the boxes and any art. The art is free. Anyway, it's not like you guys actually make the artwork. You just put it together. You want people to use them, right? As long as no one is selling the inserts alone...

If he was selling inserts alone, then I could see the issue because then he'd clearly be trying to profit off your work. Selling them together with a game as they are supposed to be shold be acceptable...
 

Hinge

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Oct 30, 2000
Posts
205
dmhawkmoon:
Anyway, it's not like you guys actually make the artwork. You just put it together.
You have no idea. Do you think it took me 3 months to "put it together"? The cover pics, spine pics and sketch outlines on the back are scanned SNK artwork. The template is NTF's. The rest - font, composition, layout and some background images were created by hand. I even did the KoF 2000 & 2001 logos by hand in Illustrator because I couldn't find a good enough original.

Fuck it. I just don't like my stuff being used as promotional material without consent.

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Hinge ]</small>
 

Bishamon

Azu Bla, ,
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
3,624
Hinge:
dmhawkmoon:
Anyway, it's not like you guys actually make the artwork. You just put it together.
You have no idea. Do you think it took me 3 months to "put it together"? The cover pics, spine pics and sketch outlines on the back are scanned SNK artwork. The template is NTF's. The rest - font, composition, layout and some background images were created by hand. I even did the KoF 2000 & 2001 logos by hand in Illustrator because I couldn't find a good enough original.

Fuck it. I just don't like my stuff being used as promotional material without consent.
Yep, having some experience with Adobe products, I can imagine the immense amount of work you put into those inserts.

Damn.
 

SonGohan

Made of Wood
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Posts
23,652
Hinge:
Fuck it. I just don't like my stuff being used as promotional material without consent.
Have you emailed those people telling them this? I'd be all over somebody if they used my work like that without my consent.
 

TheBigBB

Formerly known as dmhawkmoon
Joined
May 5, 2002
Posts
6,117
Well, I know it took a lot of work, but it's still not quite YOUR art here. REGARDLESS, you made it for people to use it, right? You made it for people to use in a shockbox with a game inside. These are being sold as a complete item. I think there should be no problem with selling games complete like that. Now, apparently you do have a problem, but I'm just trying to make you see that it's not so bad. The reason is, as I've said, that if I ever wanted to sell an MVS game of mine I would want to include the shockbox and the insert, and I would also want to tell the buyers that that was what they were getting. Not because I want to ever profit; I probably won't ever sell one of my MVS games! I just think about what else one could do with the insert and box without a game, and I don't know. Of course one could throw the box and insert in secretly, or throw away the insert, but I don't understand what the issue is. No one is specifically profting off the inserts here... The shockbox and insert cost at least $10 just to obtain to begin with. No one's going to be paying through the ass just because of the box... And if they do it's their own fault, NOT the seller's!

Why aren't you mad at Kinkos for charging to print these? I mean, in the end, they're the ones who are really making money off of it.

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: dmhawkmoon ]</small>
 

c.t.h

Maxima's Barber
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Posts
2,350
I don't get this. If he was selling the digital file ITSELF, yes, I see why you would have a problem. But he's just including it in the auction! He doesn't even mention an insert, he just says "shockbox".So since he isn't supposed to sell the insert, is he just supposed to throw it away and send the empty shockbox to the person?

Your argument really makes no sense eye
 

Hinge

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Oct 30, 2000
Posts
205
c.t.h:
Your argument really makes no sense eye
My argument is this: please don't sell MVS inserts, in any way. They're unauthorized and basically no different than what NGF is in deep shit for. It's a gray area right now, but selling them with games isn't going to help any. People can get in trouble, either the ones including them in sales, the ones creating them or the people hosting them.

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Hinge ]</small>
 

BIG BEAR

SHOCKbox Developer,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
8,230
help
This is a tier type argument:
Hinge creates insert images and distributes,Playmore has a problem with this regardless of what you intended them for use with.A fan prints out the inserts and resells them,Playmore and Hinge have a problem with this.
Where I am getting @ is that there is a rational into believing it's okay to create insert images just like one would feel it's okay to resell.
It's either all okay or all wrong..You just can't have it both ways.
-BB
 

RyoGeo

Global Moderator, Voice of Reason, Member #13
Joined
Aug 14, 2000
Posts
2,495
Were it me selling the cart, I would not have the insert pictured but would probably show the shock box (no insert visible) and mention that there is a home made insert in teh Shock Box to ID the game.

I can understand where Hinge is coming from in that perhaps this auction will make more money based on the fact that his insert nakes the package more attractive. It's a tough call though because, if you are simply selling some of your MVS games, you would probably include the insert in the sale.

My take on it would be to make the insert a non-issue by not showing it and simply stating that there is a home made job in there to ID the game. That way, the buyer is just blown away, but no one's effort (Hinge's, in this case) inflates the value of the item when it shouldn't.

Nasty grey area.
 

TheBigBB

Formerly known as dmhawkmoon
Joined
May 5, 2002
Posts
6,117
I don't think Playmore could successfully sue a person for selling a game like that. I thought the NGF case was premised by the fact that they were running a business. An individual selling one game for which they printed out artwork for wouldn't be held accountable. Playmore's stance is just that since this is the Neo-Geo website, they don't want unofficial stuff floating around here. They do not care about eBay or individuals selling to each other so long as this website is not a place where it occurs.

I really would be hard pressed to believe that Playmore cares at all about this kind of thing occurring outside of a business or this website.
 

Parallax

Ninja Combat Warrior
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Posts
530
RyoGeo:
I can understand where Hinge is coming from in that perhaps this auction will make more money based on the fact that his insert nakes the package more attractive. It's a tough call though because, if you are simply selling some of your MVS games, you would probably include the insert in the sale.
Finally The words of wisdom from the oh so wise RyoGeo I couldn't agree more. On one hand Hinge has already made the inserts available to the public, yet on the other hand he did NOT make them available for some one to pimp their sale. I personally watched that auction as those shockboxes were a great addition to a already good product. I alredy have those inserts as Hinge made them available through Kazuya's web site, however if I didn't have a way to print them out I probably would have pursued the purchase more.

I dont see the insert bringing in that much more cash, however it's the principal of the matter, that Hinge worked really hard on those, and he didn't do it to boost some dudes ebay sales. This guy could have at least asked. Hinge is a very nice guy and right now he feels whored out!

We really dont know if this guy used it to boost the sale but one can only take as they do. The right thing to do is as RyoGeo said "mention that there is a home made insert in teh Shock Box to ID the game" it's a nice guesture to the seller and no one feels pimped out.

Its a very grey area, But the guy still could have at least asked.
 

c.t.h

Maxima's Barber
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Posts
2,350
No matter what you say, the inserts have a value - a trip to kinkos, paying them, etc - so no matter what you say, the seller had to INVEST something in those inserts, it's not like Hinge mailed him preprinted ones for free.

my .02 cents
 

FeelGood

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Posts
17,794
I'd just be like YEAH BOY U BETTA RECOGNIZE! and be all happy he was using my insert. I'd demand he gave me props in his auction description though.

I only made one, and it never went public. :D
 
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