Power rankings for KoF/SF universes

Originally posted by Apathy Wind:
<STRONG>Hidden and Rain:

You guys make some interesting points about the whole Alex/Ken thing but I still disagree.

Rain - The winner of SF3:3S really can't be determined at this point (hopefully, Capcom will actually give us a clear indication of who won these tournaments in some future game. One of my Capcom irritations..). So maybe Ryu beat Alex and defeated Gill or maybe Alex defeated Ryu and fought Gill himself. Who knows? So that comparison can't really be used to determine their order.

Hidden - I like your observations about the spiritual power versus physical power. It makes sense and is supported by the super arts each fighter uses (Ryu's are more energy based, Ken's more physical). But Ken's glory days seem to be a bit behind him. And I think Capcom is saying that Alex could beat Ryu. Alex's 9th round boss in 3S is Ryu himself; showing a comparison at least - if not a symbolic passing of the torch. Capcom established Alex as the main character for the SF3 games and set him on a quest to defeat Gill. Now in order to have a chance in hell of defeating the ungodly overpowered Gill, Alex would need to be a considerable power himself. Plus there's never been a fighting game where the main character is not one of the top powered (if not the top powered) fighters. Otherwise we'd see a rash of Dan Fighter 2: Super Turbo's (actually, that'd be kinda cool...).

Alex's establishment as the new SF main character and his destiny to meet the superpowered Gill essentially puts him in the same place Ryu was in and around SF1. He is young and inexperienced, which is why I rank him far below the previous main character. And with Alex on the rise and Ken on the decline; then I still rank them #9 and #10 respectively.</STRONG>

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Originally posted by YeldellGW:
<STRONG>Nice ranking ROTB, though according to the Vampire Hunter 2 ending; Pyron's mental food to Jedah (OR however it goes?). Damn! I need to fire up Darkstalker 3 on the PSX and double check this again.

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"Don't be scared! I'll only cut off one of your heads! Guess!"</STRONG>

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Originally posted by Taiso:
<STRONG>I see a lot of 'this guy beat this guy and that guy beat this guy' type of stuff going on around here. Let me interject my thoughts on the whole subject, if you don't mind.

Characters don't HAVE to fight certain other characters to get to the final boss. Not every one of these games uses a tournament for its setting. Not every competition that begins as a fighting tournament ends under the same auspices. I'd be willing to bet that the Capcom writers would say Ryu never fought Alex due to circumstances in the storyline dictating plot twists that insured the two never fought. What those plot twists could is purely speculation.

As I said in another thread with similar subject matter, it's entirely possible that Ryu and Ken could have beaten the crap out of each other so bad when they fought that neither one could continue on, thus clearing the way for Alex.

Or maybe Ryu fought Alex and during the course of the battle the former learned the latter had a burning desire to fight Gill to get some kind of justice for what happened to Tom. I could see Ryu, at that point, graciously stepping aside and saying 'I understand how important this fight is to you. I will not stand in your way.'

Or maybe Ryu went after Gouki/Akuma, leaving Alex to pursue his destiny and face Gill? Let's face it, Ryu probably thinks it's his responsibility to put a stop to Gouki/Akuma before he hurts anyone else. What else would any self respecting heroic character with deep ties to the villain think?

The point is that these storyline contrivances play HEAVILY into fighting game continuity. Over in the 'main swap' thread, I didn't (and still don't) concede anything to Kyo, Rugal or anybody else. Terry, in an opinion that is based on extensive exposure to the source material and spinoffs and heavy research, is the strongest hero in the SNK world. But Kyo makes it to Orochi in the end. How is that possible if Terry's the strongest, the naysayers ask?

Here's how it's possible. Storyline contrivances are concieved and applied in order to elevate the main character of the STORY IN QUESTION to the required dramatic positioning.

I'm not saying Kyo is weak. I'm not saying Alex is weak. Kyo would give Terry a great fight. Alex would give Ryu a great fight. But the new guys, in a straight up one on one, would lose to the more established heroes.

Alex is the main character of SFIII (all incarnations). He is NOT the main character of the SF universe.

Ask yourselves this question as well. Does a fighting game HAVE to only have one story contained in it? I believe Fatal Fury 3, for example, has AT LEAST four stories in it; Terry's battle to keep the scrolls out of the hands of the Jin brothers, which is the most important one. Then there's Hon Fu's pursuit of Ryuji Yamazaki. There's the whole thing about Franco trying to find his son. And what about Geese? He's more of a threat than the Jin brothers in the overall SNK picture, but he's not the last boss.

According to the logic I've been seeing, one would assume that at that point in SNK continuity, the Jin Brothers and Yamazaki are stronger than Geese because they come after him in the game.

To that type of logic I say bunk, tripe and swill .

Terry fought Geese, who ALSO happened to be trying to get the Jin scrolls at the time. Their paths crossed due to their personal quests necessitating the meeting, but defeating Geese just wasn't the end of the Jin scroll story. There was more to do, and for that reason Terry moved beyond the fight with Geese (which didn't end with a KO, but rather with Geese Tower's pinnacle erupting in flames) and on to Yamazaki, and if you do well enough the Jin brothers.

Being the main character in a game or a series of games doesn't NECESSITATE any character's position in the univerasl heirarchy.

I hope this post is taken only as my attempt to add a new perspective to the debating.

Oh, and Terry's still the strongest SNK hero. That's the only one I'll pick .</STRONG>

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Originally posted by RiotoftheBlood:
<STRONG>I am sure that Pyron isn't even inlcluded in Jedah's ending, and I don't remember Pyron being any kind of food for Jedah in Pyron's ending, but I can't explicitly remember Pyron's ending so I can't be sure. Plus, Pyron doesn't have a soul (watch the Vampire Hunter anime). I used to have all of the Vampire Savior endings saved on my Saturn, until the battery died. I will have to finish the game with Pyron again.</STRONG>

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Originally posted by Apathy Wind:
<STRONG>B_H - I'm not so sure about the Pyron/Jedah thing. Look at the endings to Vampire Hunter 2 and Vampire Savior 2. In the Hunter 2 endings it shows a victorious Pyron but states that Pyron is gradually being weakened and that he is 'mental food' for Jedah. Even Pyron's own ending states that his body is being assimilated into Jedah's dimension. As Pyron grows weaker, Jedah grows stronger and closer to rebirth. It states that soon Pyron's will shall be overtaken by Jedah.

The Savior 2 endings either show a victorious Jedah (Jedah's ending) or states that Jedah will revive again and again until he achieves his goal to unite all souls. So he will continue endlessly until he is victorious.

So between the four endings, I'd say that Jedah has the edge over Pyron. It would be a hell of a fight - Pyron's cosmic power against Jedah's mystical power. But where Pyron has the edge physically, Jedah has the edge mentally/spiritually. Jedah would eventually outlast Pyron and drain his power like in the endings.

Of course, I am somewhat Jedah biased so maybe I shouldn't be the one to argue this .

[ May 07, 2001: Message edited by: Apathy Wind ]</STRONG>

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Originally posted by Black_Hayato:
<STRONG>I knew of VH2 and VS2, but I didn't know there was changed or added endings. I only have DS1 psx, and VH and VS saturn, to go by. Ah I feel in complete.

you say this mode is in the PSX version of VS? Does anyone know if its in Vampire Chronicles. I heard the chronicles aren't very complete.</STRONG>

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