You SNK-fans got beef with Capcom-fans?
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SublimeFan
Cheng's Errand Boy
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Bah!! I can't pick only one!! They both have their qualities!!
Capcom: Seems to have more comicy like characters, the kind that you'd expect to see in the pages next to the guys from that other game (which shall remain nameless). Truthfully, their fighting games AREN'T their best, but their other games are. Games like Street Fighter are fun, but not as much as....
SNK: Their fighting games aren't only the best fighting games, but possibly the best games all around. The "funness" factor on them is an 11. They actually require some skills, and in games like Samurai Shodown, button mashing won't even give you a chance. Not only are the fighting games good, there are the classics. I dunno what I would think of video games if I never played Magician Lord, or NAM 1975. Also, Puzzle Bobble is the best puzzle game ever made (in my opinion).
Ah, WTF am I saying?!?! SNK by far!!
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~ "They told me to shoot straight,
don't pull the trigger, squeeze.
That way its sure to kill,
a kill is what you want,
a kill is why we breed"
- NoFX, The Decline
Capcom: Seems to have more comicy like characters, the kind that you'd expect to see in the pages next to the guys from that other game (which shall remain nameless). Truthfully, their fighting games AREN'T their best, but their other games are. Games like Street Fighter are fun, but not as much as....
SNK: Their fighting games aren't only the best fighting games, but possibly the best games all around. The "funness" factor on them is an 11. They actually require some skills, and in games like Samurai Shodown, button mashing won't even give you a chance. Not only are the fighting games good, there are the classics. I dunno what I would think of video games if I never played Magician Lord, or NAM 1975. Also, Puzzle Bobble is the best puzzle game ever made (in my opinion).
Ah, WTF am I saying?!?! SNK by far!!
------------------
~ "They told me to shoot straight,
don't pull the trigger, squeeze.
That way its sure to kill,
a kill is what you want,
a kill is why we breed"
- NoFX, The Decline
Living Legend
n00b
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I like both companies but I like SNK fighters more than Capcom by far. Capcom is my favorite company though!
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Hmmm!!! Meat!!!
Don't waste my time with your weak skills, scrub!!!
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Hmmm!!! Meat!!!
Don't waste my time with your weak skills, scrub!!!
I enjoy good fighters, be them from SNK, Capcom, Namco, Sega, or even Midway (well, MK2, that is).
The thing I see is that often the KoF'ers and the VS'ers are the ones who flame; usually, Savior/Showdown/Garou are more open minded...
One thing you cannot deny, is that SNK does a horrible bug removal/playtest job, specially in KoFs, since 94 there is at least one gameplay or bug problem. Capcom does a better job in regular games (I know VS games are full of crap, is to be expected since they are "expotential" games...).
Oh and where would the world be without Final Fight, or SF/SF2; and where, oh where would SNK had been without Capcom...
The thing I see is that often the KoF'ers and the VS'ers are the ones who flame; usually, Savior/Showdown/Garou are more open minded...
One thing you cannot deny, is that SNK does a horrible bug removal/playtest job, specially in KoFs, since 94 there is at least one gameplay or bug problem. Capcom does a better job in regular games (I know VS games are full of crap, is to be expected since they are "expotential" games...).
Oh and where would the world be without Final Fight, or SF/SF2; and where, oh where would SNK had been without Capcom...
The SFers flame because of the obvious derivative nature of AoF from SF. How's that for a longstanding grudge? And of course, Galford's mirror image super is a rip-off of the Darkness Illusion, Hanzo's SPD is a rip-off of Zangief's SPD, etc, etc.
SNKer's flame Capcom for being a buncha money grubbing whores... not that I have anything anything against being moneygrubbing or a whore of course.
Erratically,
A Sombra
SNKer's flame Capcom for being a buncha money grubbing whores... not that I have anything anything against being moneygrubbing or a whore of course.
Erratically,
A Sombra
humm...
Since what Capcom game can you 2-1? SF2
Since what SNK game can you 2-1? FFS (not FF2)
What Ryu has since SF1 (yes, Street Fighter...)? A projectile, an anti-air attack, an advancing kick attack.
What Terry/Ryo/Kyo got when they were introduced? A projectile, an anti-air attack, an advancing kick attack.
What was introduced in Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter? Assist system.
What was introduced in KoF 99? Striker system.
What was introduced in Marvel vs Capcom 2? Alpha/Beta/Gamma "anytime" Assists.
What was introduced in KoF2000? Active Striker System.
And, yes I also know:
What was introduced in Fatal Fury? 2p co-op.
What was introduced in SFZ? Dramatic battle.
What was introduced in AoF? Power meter.
What Was introduced in SSF2X? Super combo gauge.
among other things that I'm too tired to enumerate...
Speaking of features, what was the first?
Vampire: Guard Cancel
or
KoF94/95: Undocumented guard cancel
I don't know myself since both Vampire and kof94 are from 1994, also I don't know if Kof94 had the Guard cancel...
[This message has been edited by Ryoandr (edited April 18, 2001).]
Since what Capcom game can you 2-1? SF2
Since what SNK game can you 2-1? FFS (not FF2)
What Ryu has since SF1 (yes, Street Fighter...)? A projectile, an anti-air attack, an advancing kick attack.
What Terry/Ryo/Kyo got when they were introduced? A projectile, an anti-air attack, an advancing kick attack.
What was introduced in Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter? Assist system.
What was introduced in KoF 99? Striker system.
What was introduced in Marvel vs Capcom 2? Alpha/Beta/Gamma "anytime" Assists.
What was introduced in KoF2000? Active Striker System.
And, yes I also know:
What was introduced in Fatal Fury? 2p co-op.
What was introduced in SFZ? Dramatic battle.
What was introduced in AoF? Power meter.
What Was introduced in SSF2X? Super combo gauge.
among other things that I'm too tired to enumerate...
Speaking of features, what was the first?
Vampire: Guard Cancel
or
KoF94/95: Undocumented guard cancel
I don't know myself since both Vampire and kof94 are from 1994, also I don't know if Kof94 had the Guard cancel...
[This message has been edited by Ryoandr (edited April 18, 2001).]
VinylBoy
Vanessa's Drinking Buddy,
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In response to a post by Ryoandr...
I find myself saying things like this all the time to newbies... it's almost becoming a habit.
Before I go into detail to the mistakes in some of your findings, lemme first go out to say that SFII set the standards for the modern day fighting game back in 1991. That is a definite fact... so it's obvious that you'll see similairties with characters having fireball/anti-air movements similar to Ryu and Ken. But THAT'S where it ends. Saying Terry Bogard is a rip-off from Ryu & Ken is incorrect. First off, the fireball is a ground projectile... the uppercut (in question) or Rising Tackle is a charge move, unlike the Shoryuken... and back then, the crack shot could only connect for one hit, which makes Terry stand out even further from Ken. Sure, he has a projectile, an anti-air, and a forward progressing kick. But doesn't 95% of all other Martial Arts have that as well (minus the fireballs)? In other words... the Shoto style was the first fighting style, and all other ones with projectiles and anti airs are versions of the shoto style. If that was true, then Guile and Sagat from SF2 are ALSO shotos. We all know that this is incorrect...
About team assists? KOF '94 was the first to do so... if you were grabbed by your opponent in your corner, by pressing A+B+C+D you can call out a member on your team (if they haven't been used and if they were on the screen). They would jump out and break the hold. This is the earliest form of the assist. Capcom adapted this and made their tweaks, which lead to the assists we see today in the Vs series, and again in modern day KOF.
And as for the Vs game itself? The judges are still out on this one, but didn't Kizuna Encounter come out before X-Men vs. Street Fighter? That would be another plus, for then they would have been the first to implement tagging, double team assists and tag zones.
AOF brought in "ki" meters and supers...
The concept of the Super Meter exitsed in Samurai Shodown... it was a meter that constantly raised in power, then at MAX you were rewarded with double damage abilities for a limited time. Sure, Capcom went a step further and used it for Supers... but SNK once again invented the concept.
And from what I could remember, you could ALWAYS combo in FF2 (2-in-1) and FFS... the only differences between the two games is the addition of Ryo, useable boss characters and some minor system tweaks.
There's many more I could go on to explain... but food just got delivered to my door. I shall take a break now...
[This message has been edited by VinylBoy (edited April 18, 2001).]
I find myself saying things like this all the time to newbies... it's almost becoming a habit.
Before I go into detail to the mistakes in some of your findings, lemme first go out to say that SFII set the standards for the modern day fighting game back in 1991. That is a definite fact... so it's obvious that you'll see similairties with characters having fireball/anti-air movements similar to Ryu and Ken. But THAT'S where it ends. Saying Terry Bogard is a rip-off from Ryu & Ken is incorrect. First off, the fireball is a ground projectile... the uppercut (in question) or Rising Tackle is a charge move, unlike the Shoryuken... and back then, the crack shot could only connect for one hit, which makes Terry stand out even further from Ken. Sure, he has a projectile, an anti-air, and a forward progressing kick. But doesn't 95% of all other Martial Arts have that as well (minus the fireballs)? In other words... the Shoto style was the first fighting style, and all other ones with projectiles and anti airs are versions of the shoto style. If that was true, then Guile and Sagat from SF2 are ALSO shotos. We all know that this is incorrect...
About team assists? KOF '94 was the first to do so... if you were grabbed by your opponent in your corner, by pressing A+B+C+D you can call out a member on your team (if they haven't been used and if they were on the screen). They would jump out and break the hold. This is the earliest form of the assist. Capcom adapted this and made their tweaks, which lead to the assists we see today in the Vs series, and again in modern day KOF.
And as for the Vs game itself? The judges are still out on this one, but didn't Kizuna Encounter come out before X-Men vs. Street Fighter? That would be another plus, for then they would have been the first to implement tagging, double team assists and tag zones.
AOF brought in "ki" meters and supers...
The concept of the Super Meter exitsed in Samurai Shodown... it was a meter that constantly raised in power, then at MAX you were rewarded with double damage abilities for a limited time. Sure, Capcom went a step further and used it for Supers... but SNK once again invented the concept.
And from what I could remember, you could ALWAYS combo in FF2 (2-in-1) and FFS... the only differences between the two games is the addition of Ryo, useable boss characters and some minor system tweaks.
There's many more I could go on to explain... but food just got delivered to my door. I shall take a break now...
[This message has been edited by VinylBoy (edited April 18, 2001).]
i'f you feel im being biased, go ahead and correct me. i don't have as much knowledge of Capcom games as i do of SNK's.
recently, i've seen judging the SNK/Capcom deal on two criteria. Visual effects and gameplay. regardless of current popularity.
i'll get to the point here, so you don't have to read what i have below, and you can skip to the next post.
Capcom succeeds in what gamers instantly want: Eye-candy, and a shallow learning curve. SNK is a bit more attentive to gameplay, what the more serious gamers want.
The Eye-candy bit: this is easy. when you do a SC finish in Marvel vs Capcom 2 you can't be at least mesmerised by all the pretty effects.
the shallow learning curve: make the end-gamer feel happy about himself. when a buttonmasher inputs a simple qcf + PPP in MvsC2, you'll probably recognise him thinking/saying something like, "wow. did i do that?" it makes him feel happy about himself. that's all your standard arcade game is about, making the gamer feel happy that he put him coin into that particular game.
now, i tend to see KoF as going beyond looks, it's more focused on gameplay. '98 is a perfect example of that. nearly everything is balanced. SNK has focused on preventing people from being cheap bastards. like how that Valle guy said, commenting on playing KoF (i think): "rolling under my fireballs? that's pretty cheap." i forget who said it, but whoever said that SNK games aren't entirely about fireballs, is just more clearly illustrating the point im trying to make here. you can't get away with anything too cheap too easily.
oh yeah, the who invented what first? i'd have to say SNK invented as many additions to the fighting game engine as Capcom, if not more. it's just the ignorant capcommunists that believe that Capcom made everything, based on the fact that they saw it first on a capcom game. (oops, that's a bit biased...) like the discovery of penicillin, the scientist left it in his lab, but it was his cohort that realised what good it was capable of.
*yawn*
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- Bufa [Site: Freakling]
The Baxendell Manouvre punishes the cheap.
recently, i've seen judging the SNK/Capcom deal on two criteria. Visual effects and gameplay. regardless of current popularity.
i'll get to the point here, so you don't have to read what i have below, and you can skip to the next post.
Capcom succeeds in what gamers instantly want: Eye-candy, and a shallow learning curve. SNK is a bit more attentive to gameplay, what the more serious gamers want.
The Eye-candy bit: this is easy. when you do a SC finish in Marvel vs Capcom 2 you can't be at least mesmerised by all the pretty effects.
the shallow learning curve: make the end-gamer feel happy about himself. when a buttonmasher inputs a simple qcf + PPP in MvsC2, you'll probably recognise him thinking/saying something like, "wow. did i do that?" it makes him feel happy about himself. that's all your standard arcade game is about, making the gamer feel happy that he put him coin into that particular game.
now, i tend to see KoF as going beyond looks, it's more focused on gameplay. '98 is a perfect example of that. nearly everything is balanced. SNK has focused on preventing people from being cheap bastards. like how that Valle guy said, commenting on playing KoF (i think): "rolling under my fireballs? that's pretty cheap." i forget who said it, but whoever said that SNK games aren't entirely about fireballs, is just more clearly illustrating the point im trying to make here. you can't get away with anything too cheap too easily.
oh yeah, the who invented what first? i'd have to say SNK invented as many additions to the fighting game engine as Capcom, if not more. it's just the ignorant capcommunists that believe that Capcom made everything, based on the fact that they saw it first on a capcom game. (oops, that's a bit biased...) like the discovery of penicillin, the scientist left it in his lab, but it was his cohort that realised what good it was capable of.
*yawn*
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- Bufa [Site: Freakling]
The Baxendell Manouvre punishes the cheap.
Apathy Wind
Cheng's Errand Boy
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Well I'm not going to get into a pointless Capcom/SNK invented this or that argument. It's really not important. Capcom and SNK have both shaped the 2D fighting scene by developing new ideas and expanding one those used in other fighters. That's the beauty of there being two major 2D fighter producers - the competition helps each make better products.
Bufa: You make some interesting points but you can't really compare a serious fighter like KoF to flash fighters like MvC2. Serious Capcom fighters (ala SF) have a much deeper learning curve then the VS. games. Hell, programming my VCR has a higher learning curve then MvC2.
Bufa: You make some interesting points but you can't really compare a serious fighter like KoF to flash fighters like MvC2. Serious Capcom fighters (ala SF) have a much deeper learning curve then the VS. games. Hell, programming my VCR has a higher learning curve then MvC2.
Black_Hayato
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The spread of who got what from who is fairly even. One couldn've done w/o the other. Its a give and trade.
Thats how innovation works, one person builds w/ the tools before him (and then some), to create anew.
Thats how innovation works, one person builds w/ the tools before him (and then some), to create anew.
RiotoftheBlood
Chin's Drinking Partner
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kazuki1313
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I liked playing both Capcom and SNK games,I never got into this little Capcom/SNK war.I just look at it as one company was makeing fighting games that were good (cool) then I found out about another company who made good fighting games also (very cool) :P
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what!?!?! I don't have one yet,go away!
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what!?!?! I don't have one yet,go away!
RiotoftheBlood
Chin's Drinking Partner
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No... you are wrong. SNK hired away many of Capcom's developers, and that's when they started to become good. It's no coincidence. I'll concede that having competition from SNK definitely made Capcom better, but there's no way that you can tell me honestly that Capcom depends or did depend on SNK.
chohan
Pao Pao Cafe Waiter
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I must be lucky. I know many people who like SNK better then capcom. Some even say Street Fighter sucks compared to KoF. My bro likes Capcom better = fun in MotM
But I like Capcom games and people who like Capcom that is oke with me. Besides Capcom and SNK are one right? Employes have worked at both companies and meaby SNK and Capcom are getting one company sooner or later. As long as we get to play KoF,SS,LB,MetalSlug,FF etc
Cho
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''Do as you like, it is not my job to kill you''
Cho
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''Do as you like, it is not my job to kill you''
chohan
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Riot SNK has some ''look alike'' fighters but those are just pares of two. Streetfighter has; Ryu,Ken,Dan,Akuma,Sakura,Evil Ryu. It is just driving me crazy. They all do the same exept for very little differentces. Look at there feets for example, all there feets are the same. And then you got Cammy and those two copies Juli and Juni. I liked Streetfighter better when there weren't so many same styled characters. Just with the old 16 basic fighters. Still ofcource Streetfighter is a great fighting game.
Cho
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''Do as you like, it is not my job to kill you''
Cho
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''Do as you like, it is not my job to kill you''
are you saying you can make your VCR clock tell the proper time?
yeah, i guess you can't. (i knew i was being biased somewhere.)
let me demonstrate in a poorly drawn picture, illustrating the importance of each aspect.
Eye-candy-----------50-----------Gameplay
__A____________B_________C_____
[_______________________________]
A: Marvel vs Capcom 2
B: Street Fighter Alpha
C: King of Fighters
Marvel vs Capcom 2 is just completely based on visual effects. i think nearly everybody agrees with me there, the learning curve is aimed at the more un-coordinated, basic gamers.
SF Alpha still has it's gameplay aspects, Alpha counters, for example. the SFA series cheap-bastard prevention device. I'm putting it closer to the centre because it's the sprite art is 'cleaner' than KoF's. any ignorant capcommunist that argues SFA plays better than KoF is just completely off.
KoF is not at the very end of the spectrum, we aren't playing Stickman 2: Hyper Fighting, fer god sakes.
i'm still wondering where i could put Street Fighter 3 and Garou:MotW. they succeed in both areas of criteria.
i'm done rambling.
[edited to fix fugly diagram]
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- Bufa [Site: Freakling]
The Baxendell Manouvre punishes the cheap.
[This message has been edited by Bufa (edited April 19, 2001).]
Black_Hayato
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bufa:
are you saying you can make your VCR clock tell the proper time?ooooooohhhhh...
yeah, i guess you can't. (i knew i was being biased somewhere.)im just trying to say that MvC2 is about visually giving the player a euphoric high, while KoF is more about gameplay equality. that's unfair, i guess, putting Capcom's flagship as MvsC2. oops.
let me demonstrate in a poorly drawn picture, illustrating the importance of each aspect.
Eye-candy-----------50-----------Gameplay
__A____________B_________C_____
[_______________________________]
A: Marvel vs Capcom 2
B: Street Fighter Alpha
C: King of Fighters
Marvel vs Capcom 2 is just completely based on visual effects. i think nearly everybody agrees with me there, the learning curve is aimed at the more un-coordinated, basic gamers.
SF Alpha still has it's gameplay aspects, Alpha counters, for example. the SFA series cheap-bastard prevention device. I'm putting it closer to the centre because it's the sprite art is 'cleaner' than KoF's. any ignorant capcommunist that argues SFA plays better than KoF is just completely off.
KoF is not at the very end of the spectrum, we aren't playing Stickman 2: Hyper Fighting, fer god sakes.
i'm still wondering where i could put Street Fighter 3 and Garou:MotW. they succeed in both areas of criteria.
i'm done rambling.
[edited to fix fugly diagram]
YOur wrong about MVC2 being for the basic gamer. From what I learned, the forced team play aspects of the game(assists). Have made the gameplay a focus of breaking the defense. In higher levels of play, there can be almost no turtling, or you'll be trapped. The open ended gameplay has given the players the ability stretch the limit of the engine so that the game plays in an new unorthodox manner. One thats unconvential and turns off others. GGX is similar in this regard, with the combo system being looser in the areas, you'd think it should be. And changed in areas you would expect. I personally think SF3's combo system is perfect, I cant imagine changing it.
Companies are streching the limits, changing the formula. I think of it as an equilizer(stereo). There's a balance that fits for different occasions.
RiotoftheBlood
Chin's Drinking Partner
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bufa:
are you saying you can make your VCR clock tell the proper time?ooooooohhhhh...
yeah, i guess you can't. (i knew i was being biased somewhere.)im just trying to say that MvC2 is about visually giving the player a euphoric high, while KoF is more about gameplay equality. that's unfair, i guess, putting Capcom's flagship as MvsC2. oops.
let me demonstrate in a poorly drawn picture, illustrating the importance of each aspect.
Eye-candy-----------50-----------Gameplay
__A____________B_________C_____
[_______________________________]
A: Marvel vs Capcom 2
B: Street Fighter Alpha
C: King of Fighters
Marvel vs Capcom 2 is just completely based on visual effects. i think nearly everybody agrees with me there, the learning curve is aimed at the more un-coordinated, basic gamers.
SF Alpha still has it's gameplay aspects, Alpha counters, for example. the SFA series cheap-bastard prevention device. I'm putting it closer to the centre because it's the sprite art is 'cleaner' than KoF's. any ignorant capcommunist that argues SFA plays better than KoF is just completely off.
KoF is not at the very end of the spectrum, we aren't playing Stickman 2: Hyper Fighting, fer god sakes.
i'm still wondering where i could put Street Fighter 3 and Garou:MotW. they succeed in both areas of criteria.
i'm done rambling.
[edited to fix fugly diagram]
MvC2 completely for visual effects? No way. MvC2, if anything, was completely for fun.
RiotoftheBlood
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I can't believe that you included Sakura there. Sakura is way more different from any of the shotos than any of the pairs I mentioned are. And you can't really count Dan, because he was a blatant joke of Ryo, who was a blatant copy of Ryu (and anyone who doesn't think so is way too SNK-jaded).
I thought it was proved a while ago that both Street Fighter and Art of Fighting were created by the same guy.
The man behind SF2 left Capcom right after and joined SNK, which then made AOF. Nothing is ripped off since its the same guy's work. It's as futile as saying Chrono Trigger's art is a blatant copy of Dragon Ball Z.
RiotoftheBlood
Chin's Drinking Partner
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I didn't know that. Still, the characters Ryo was derived from, Ryu and Ken, have always belonged to Capcom, not to their creator.