Kyokugen 2002, W T F ?!?

Boy, I'm PISSED.

Yeah, I'm late with my rants about the Kyokugen team in KoF2k2, but my bank fucked up a money transfer, causing a serious delay of shipment. Today, I finally got 2k2, hurried home from the customs office, pushed it in, sat diff on mvs, started team mode and chose the Kyokugens, mostly because I wanted to see how Takuma and Ryo 2k2 are really like.

But FUCK. FUCK you Eolith, FUCK YOU.

What did they do to my boy Tak?!

Just where da fukk is his Haou Shiko Ken energy projectile (f,hcf+P)? Man, boy, ppl, THIS IS HIS FUCKING SIGNATURE MOVE, that and his Hien Shipuu Kyaku (charge db,f+K) which they turned into a fucking two-legged frog hop!!

FUCK, I stood there with Tak in fucking level three and got my fucking ass handed to me by Iori because I felt like a total Takuma n00b again, that's so ridiculous, I could cry, really.

Shame on you whoever came up with the idea to rape Takuma that way. Guess it was the same idiot who agreed to use the worst logo I've ever seen in KoF. Big steaming KACK.

If the rest of this game is like this, I'll feed it to my neighbour's stinking Rottweiler, I swear! blow_top

Takuma is actually quite strong in 2002, but his moves all look like shit in my opinion.

The good thing is that they all have the old AoF sound effects with some of their moves.

its all very true

but come on

aof team,ff team,iori & kyo and about half of the cast

ive had enough

i dont even want to see em anymore,
let alone use em

who cares really?

the entire ff team for example

turned into idiots from 97 onwards

such a shame

Just have it on now, playing with Billy vs Terry in single, before that I had a good game with Ryo. I have to admit that he's really fukn strong this year, but I really, really miss his Kohou Shippuu Ken. My combos are just not the same without it.

Ah well, guess I'll take a swig'o'reef and calm down a bit. You know, I'm very picky about Takuma, and that frog jump thing is just too much for me, really. Looks so retarded, specially the D version. Too "stretchy" for the old man if you ask me, damn, it's called Kyokugen-ryu, not Kung Fu.

The good ole AoF samples are awesome, tho. Yeah, that's how Ryo's Zanretsu Ken should sound like. Speaking of Ryo... his Kohou is quite over-priorized IMO. Guess they will finally change the "o" in his name to "u" next year...

Phew, first shock's over, now on to some hours of 2k2...

Geez, people bithced that Takuma never changes and now that he does, the bitching hasn't stopped yet!

And the lesson for today is,

"Change isn't always a good thing."

I love the old Hien Shippu Kyaku and I do miss the Zanretsuken, but damn! If I love the character enough I'll still play em regardless if the change is good or bad.

It's funny but fighters in fighting games are alot like people in real life. You can't expect them to be at their best everytime.

Suck it up and get over it.

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: YeldellGW ]</small>

well i got the game 7 day ago
i really find it no to go at first
then look at the character damn takuma
just suck that what i was saying 3 day ago

then my friend star to coming over every day
to you to play the game we play KOf 98
then KOF 02 and men

now i love this shit more than anything
i am like this now
what i want to tell you is play with takuma
is real good he is the demon man
why well now i make a combo is 28 hit with him
and is a killer combo ohh wait until you see terry god but nothing look what it seem to be

I have to admit that Takuma is the most fun character to play in 2002 for me. And because of him, my favorite team as of late is the AOF team. It used to be FF team, but Takuma owns 'em in terms of fun factor. The fact that no one else uses him makes me feel even more likely to pick him.

Takuma is quite strong, and his FB is really good, dealing good damage and goes through other FB's. Because his FB lacks range, he isn't scrubby, so don't expect to play him Shoryuken style. And his HCB+K moves are too good, beats almost everything. And he also has the guard crushing HSK move that gives him free combo. Then he has that overhead that he can BC cancel and do a free S/DM combo, just like any other chars with overheads. And he's one of the few that has a reliable anti-air DM.

Ok...

I'm in my 7th hour of playing 2k2, and... well... yeah, you ppl are right, Takuma is really strong this year. Tho I still hate his move anims, his new Hien Shipuu Kyaku (qcb+K) on B is quite useful, while I don't dig the D version. It's neither a short- nor long range move, IMO it's a minor version of Ryo's, and that sucks, that and the fact that Tak has no energy projectiles. His new Haou Shikou Ken (f,hcf+P) without the projectile is simply a joke. Alright, it still deflects (S)DM projectiles and stuff like that, but with this and the changed Hien Shipuu Kyaku, he IMO looses most of his distance fighting skills. The fact that his C Ko'ou Ken has a range doesn't help, tho it's better than nothing. Rugal seems to have a hard time with it...

YeldellGW, I never was one of the ppl that wanted to change Takuma, no way. If you play the first AoF and find out that Mr. Karate is Takuma, you also will be introduced to his Haou Shikou Ken. This is no less than his trademark since more than a decade now. Takuma 2002 IMO is the equivalent to a Geese Howard with his double Repukken turned into a simple anti-air double-uppercut, or a Rugal without his Genocide Cutter. It's simply not right to do that.

Shermie is nice. She got more lag on some moves (and most of her new samples sound weird), but overall, she's quite strong as well. They shouldn't have changed her CD attack, tho.

Ah well... it's strange that most of the disabled moves of this year are among my faves. Billy's Sen'en Sakkon (f,d,df+P) for ex., or Ryo's Kohou Shipuu Ken (qcb+P), or even the Wire Attacks, like Robert's supa-cheap close Hien Senpuu Kyaku (hcb+K) that could be so nicely strung into a Ryuuga or Haiga Ryuu DM. Just Counter Wires, grmph.

Heh, enough bitching, gotta play some more hours. At least the music isn't as ear-bending as 2k1's, tho some of the costumes make my eyes bleed (like Andy's alarmingly yellow/green Gi, ugh). And Rugal is pretty nasty, but that's okay, a shame if he wouldn't!

Takumaji
YeldellGW, I never was one of the ppl that wanted to change Takuma, no way. If you play the first AoF and find out that Mr. Karate is Takuma, you also will be introduced to his Haou Shikou Ken. This is no less than his trademark since more than a decade now. Takuma 2002 IMO is the equivalent to a Geese Howard with his double Repukken turned into a simple anti-air double-uppercut, or a Rugal without his Genocide Cutter. It's simply not right to do that.

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Never said you were Takumaji. Usually those getting owned by Master Takuma were bitching about that sort of thing. Played all the AOF games and am well aware of trademark moves, though Takuma wasn't the first character to lose a trademark move. Ryo and Robert were without theirs for KOF 96-98 (Robert's didn't return until KOF 2001.) and even Yuri lose her Slipstream Slaps in KOF 98 (These are the normal versions I'm going by not the EX ones.).

As I stated over at ON.com, the designers love tweaking with the Kyokugenryu characters for some reason. You haven't seen the Lone Wolves lose a trademark move since FF 3 (MOTW also for Terry.).

Don't care for Takuma's low risk Hien Shippu Kyaku, but that's basically it. The Haoh Shokoken is great for charging my meter if I can't connect with it and the new Koh Ken kicks ass. At least he still has his QCB+punch move, which I'm getting better at countering jump-ins with.

Someone said earlier that it looks like Takuma's using the Force.

Indeed. And the Force is indeed strong in that one! buttrock

Another four hours down, so it's 11 hours of 2k2 so far.

I wonder who came up with that "the next 98" rating of the game. It sure has some good elements in it, but IMO, it's nowhere near as cool as 98. I dunno, perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to judge it, but the fact that Shermie, Billy and a few others that were in 98 are in 2k2 as well doesn't mean that 2k2 would be the same game.

Btw., I have to take back some of my comments about Robert. His Sen'en Renbu Kyaku is gone, but we got a nice & juggly Kyokugen-ryuu Renbu Kyaku (close qcf+K) instead, sadly without Critical Wire. I know that there are Counter Wires, but they're a lot harder to pull off.

And the HSDMs... some of them look really good, but gameplay-wise they're quite useless. And I really can't stand that blue RotD-like HSDM screen. Shit like that shouldn't be in KoF IMO.

Still... after 5 hours, I could personally rate any KoF so far, but I haven't made up my mind about 2k2 yet. Don't laugh, but for me it's really a rollercoaster ride, from great moments to downright horrible stuff...

Dem Eolith sho'nuff dinnah gots The Juice. wink

Fran:
its all very true

but come on

aof team,ff team,iori & kyo and about half of the cast

ive had enough

i dont even want to see em anymore,
let alone use em

who cares really?

the entire ff team for example

turned into idiots from 97 onwards

such a shame

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The problem as I see it is that the Garou and Kyokugen teams are just filler, and have no weight on the games as a whole. So of course they don't take Terry seriously, and figure, yeah, we can rape him off a few moves.

I think the designers really like Robert though. He's always a threat, no matter what.

In 2002 Joe is a super threat, with hardly any recovery time in his moves. But then he's not cool like in 98 where he moons the opponent.

One team I never tire of is the Ikari team. Just my opinion - they have always been the best.

I played the game throughout the whole Sat now, and my "preliminary final verdict" is: KoF2k2 is a nice game.

The artwork, tho not as juicy as in some of the ole' KoFs, is passable-to-good, well, not the logo & some of the fonts (or better combination of fonts). The overload of background charas making a more or less cameo appearance is a bit much, but it's cool to see them anyway. And hey, the music is better than in 2k1, at least its pain-in-the-ass factor is much lower... some passages/riffs are actually quite nice, the one with the acoustic guitar for ex. The remixes of the Athena and FF themes are..interesting, Athena's at least, but the best version of the FF theme still is FFS CD/AST, just cool & fat r&b.

I also like the credit roll "slapstick". Some of the outtakes are really funny, for ex. the one with Ralf fumbling at his Ralf Tackle, or the "group roll".

Apart from the changes of the Kyokugen team, 2k2 is better than 2k1 IMO. The absence of strikers is a good thing, tho they should have kept the standard Wire Attacks in favour of the HSDMs. Some of them are difficult to enter, and if they finally come out, it's mostly show. The ones I like are Andy's and, well, Mai's obviously. Iori's isn't too bad as well.

Okay... thanx for reading my delayed 2k2 blubber, ppl... wink

Well, I never liked the AOF team until this year. This year, I like their diverse gameplay style. Robert was a cheap whore since 2000-01, and thank god he was fun to play this year. Takuma has always been the Shoto character of KOF and a very scrubby one at that. Now he's a close-range pressure character. I think all the AOF chars changed for the better this year. Ryo is the up-close priority character, Robert the Shoto character, Takuma the Star Wars character without a light saber. Personally, I think all of the AOF characters are their best versions in 2002. They're fun and not scrubby (like all characters in 2002, except Yashiro).

Rambles about Robert:
Robert is probably the hardest to master despite his Shoto abilities. His fireball is slow yet confusing at the same time. His DP is quite good. His QCB+B in the air is probably his best move because it's safe if blocked and beats a lot of things on the ground, not to mention its crossup capabilities. Then he has that unblockable move, which can do 50%+ damage while in BC mode. Then he has that overhead move which gives you a free 50%+ combo if done in the corner (unlike in 2001 where you can do 50%+ combo after his overhead anywhere on the screen; which confuses opponent because he can play high/low games with that and his low B DM combo). Also his A-version Rush DM is like Takuma's C-version but slower and does a lot more damage (35-40% damage). The only problem with Robert is that he lacks a good jab combo; his only best is Low Bx2, DP+C, SC into DM but requires two-stock which is decent because it does similar damage to Takuma's jabs into SDM anyway; it's just that Robert needs two-stocks in order to do any jab into DM combo. Overall, Robert is a good distance character because of his FB/DP, but he's also decent up close, which is a good balance.

When using Takuma, try doing his normal fireball move (even though it's not a fireball anymore) when someone is close and using a projectile move (either terry's power wave or ground wave..ground wave is prolly better to use this on) and you'll notice that not only does it cancel the projectile but it goes through and hits the person throwing the projectile. I've won a few matches doing that and I think it's a cool little touch.

Accidentally finding out that I could cancel Joe's knee SDM with Ryo's f+B counter made me yell "holy shit" for 5 minutes.

Muchiko:
Well, I never liked the AOF team until this year. This year, I like their diverse gameplay style. Robert was a cheap whore since 2000-01, and thank god he was fun to play this year. Takuma has always been the Shoto character of KOF and a very scrubby one at that. Now he's a close-range pressure character. I think all the AOF chars changed for the better this year. Ryo is the up-close priority character, Robert the Shoto character, Takuma the Star Wars character without a light saber. Personally, I think all of the AOF characters are their best versions in 2002. They're fun and not scrubby (like all characters in 2002, except Yashiro). [...]

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Oh, I'm well aware that Takuma 94-2k1 is a scrub's best friend. Starting on one power stock, you could always cheap out careless opponents with his former Hien Shippuu Kyaku (charge db,f+K), followed by a Burai Gan (qcb+P) cancelled into a Ryuuko Ranbu, but that's not my point in this case. In my gaming background, Takuma is the godfather of Haou Shikou Ken, an experienced and able fighter with a straight and iron hard classical fighting style, not that close-up aggressive bull frog of 2k2, sorry. I don't say he'd be less powerful, but what we got here is an aged Ryo version without Zanretsu Ken and energy balls, not Master Takuma. Anyway, I hope these are just Dream Match effects.

Apart from the actual AoF games, I like the Kyokugen team best in 95, and then again in 97 and 98, with Ryo's fabulous old-style Mouko Raijin Gou (qcb+P).

<edit> Sorry, posted in wrong topic.

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: M ]</small>

Most of the characters were monsters in 95 and 98. In Takuma's return in 98...he was truly a monster....easy crossup's, great strength, speed, fireballs, and counters...and of course, his trademark long combo's. In 2k2, he's ok..but he just isnt the same in fun factor to me. He has a very 96' feel to him in that he has much less moves and has been "Dan-ified" like most characters in 96. I miss his funning grab..it was integral to my gameplay with him. The good thing is, if he is back next year, he should be fixed up again.

Takuma and Ryu are my favourites too.

Even though Takuma is without some moves (eg hcb + kick) and he has the idiotic invisible fireballs, he is still strong cos in previous years he was overpowered.

I almost singlehandedly got to the boss stage with him. His half circle backwards and C punch is great for deflecting the opponents attack into your own attacks. This single move and its timing is the key to success in 2002.

Ryo is a mess. His sprite looks like something from 97. Surely his Fatal Fury special sprite would suit the new feel of KOF2002And Ive never seen him so weak.That qcb + C punch is a big loss.

Ditto Fran's comments on Terry. Since 97 if you have wanted to play Terry properly U needed to buy Real Bout Special and 2.

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]</small>

rugal2000:
[...] Ryo is a mess. His sprite looks like something from 97. Surely his Fatal Fury special sprite would suit the new feel of KOF2002And Ive never seen him so weak.That qcb + C punch is a big loss. [...]

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Ryo 99 - 2k1:

(big) jump B -> hcb+B -> B -> qcb+A -> A/f,d,df+A (and a SMALL step back or hop to timeout the dragon punch) -> qcfx2+A (timing of the last part is similar to Takuma's (pre-2k2) db,f+K -> qcb+P). Quite flashy.

Ryo 2k2, (I call that one "dangerous frog-style", you'll need 1/3rd life bar and three power stocks):

jump B -> hcb+B -> B -> b,qcf+B (or b,b,qcf+D), f,d,df+A -> hop -> BC (quick MAX activation costs 2 stocks)-> qcfx2+AC.

Now compare the two, try it out in 99-2k1 and the one from 2k2. Damage level of both combos is sufficient, but the first needs one stock, the second needs three stocks and that risky quick MAX and HSDM thing, it's dangerous and therefore useless in 2P.

Change is not always a bad thing. Actually I enjoy learning new charas, but I want careful updates, no quick!-somebody-fuck-up-the-Kyokugen-team type of shit that Eolith pulled in 2k2. With the lower priority-hcb+K and the missing moves, what's left? qcf+K? Doesn't work effectively. Poking, jumping B's? Bah. So, it's qcf+P and dragon punches ad infinitum... Hadouken! Hadouken! Shooooryuken! shame oh_no