Video Games Illegal in Greece: Read If You're Planning on Going.

Blaine · Sep 3, 2002

No joke, no exageration.

Illegal. It is now illegal to own, not just play but OWN, a video game within the country of Greece.

I'm sure people in Greece are well aware of this and most of Europe is up-to-date but many may not be, so if you're planning a trip leave everything.

No Gameboy.
No PC if there is a game on it.
No VMU's (if you're like me, you have tetris or pac-man on it)
NO CELL PHONES if they have a game on it, even dice.

Don't even try to play a web game.

So far they're just arresting people playing in public, they aren't raiding people's homes and most likely the law will be ammended before it comes to that. As is right now it's just a poorly poorly poorly written law designed to prevent gambling ( <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> ).

So don't risk it, they WILL throw you in jail and fine you.

I feel bad for Greek Gamers, hopefully this will be fixed very soon.

<a href="http://msnbc-cnet.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html?type=pt&part=msnbc&tag=alert&form=feed&subj=cnetnews" target="_blank">Link</a>

JonathanDonovan · Sep 3, 2002

I felt a distubance, as if millions of gamers cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: JonathanDonovan ]

NeoGoaT · Sep 3, 2002

I read this earlier on MM Cafe, is it really true? This is a huge infringement of human rights, I dont see how they can justify it. Imagine if this law was introduced in your country, the entire collection would have to be sacrificed or face confiscation. Could you even comprehend the pain of losing a Neo collection, whatever the size and the nightmare of trying to recover it from the government if/when the law is ammended. That's some serious bad news and Greece is off my list of possible holiday destinations.

Blaine · Sep 3, 2002

Originally posted by NeoGoaT:
I read this earlier on MM Cafe, is it really true? This is a huge infringement of human rights, I dont see how they can justify it. Imagine if this law was introduced in your country, the entire collection would have to be sacrificed or face confiscation. <hr></blockquote>

It's very true. I remember reading about this bill earlier this year, I laughed...never thought it would be passed. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I posted this in Unrelated when I saw it...I don't care enough to go and check, but it may be in there somewhere.

Thier justification is the government admitted that they are unable to determine the difference between a computer game being played for entertainment or one being played for profit.

As far as people losing thier collection, I'm an optimist, I'm thinking with the bad publicity that this law is getting...world wide...that they'll modify it so that it really does only cover gambling devices.

Because I can't agree more. I wanted to go to Ikaria with my buddy Luke (he's Greek) and I was always a little...not to sure because he even says most Greeks hate Americans, but now there's no way in hell I'll go.

I can't even fathom no video games. I mean, I can only play poker and board games for so long, you know?

BUSTA_WOLF · Sep 3, 2002

its times like these i'm glad i don't live in Greece <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

Amano Jacu · Sep 3, 2002

Come on, this must be a joke. I think is totally unconstitutional.
Just for the record, I wen there last year and I brought my Neo Geo Pocket Color. I played it in public in the ship that brought us from Athens
to Mikonos. And nobody was disturbed.
Check <a href="http://www.gameland.gr/" target="_blank">http://www.gameland.gr/</a> for more info

NeoGoaT · Sep 3, 2002

Originally posted by Blaine:
 I can't even fathom no video games.<hr></blockquote>
You said it, the mind boggles. How long will it take them to recover, all arcades closed, video game stores shut down, internet cafes policed (literally) etc etc. I thought China blocking google was heavy handed but this makes the Chinese government look like cuddly teddy bears.

There'll be a hell of a lot of frustrated Counterstrike/GTA3 addicts walking the streets looking for a fix, I smell trouble.

Blaine · Sep 3, 2002

Originally posted by Amano Jacu:
Come on, this must be a joke. I think is totally unconstitutional.
Just for the record, I wen there last year and I brought my Neo Geo Pocket Color. I played it in public in the ship that brought us from Athens
to Mikonos. And nobody was disturbed.
Check <a href="http://www.gameland.gr/" target="_blank">http://www.gameland.gr/</a> for more info<hr></blockquote>

According to your and my constitution, maybe...but Greece's? Everyone has different laws.

And I think you would have been fine last year since the law was only passed at the end of July.

If it is a joke...it's a long running one because I swear as god as my witness, and most people here will validate that I have a facility for remembering little things like this, that I heard about this earlier in the year.

I may not always be able to remember where I read things, but I do remember them. .

Zizzer · Sep 3, 2002

The actual law:

"Categories:

A. Mechanical games are those, for whose operation it is necessary to
use muscle force.

B. Electrical games are those, for whose operation it is necessary to be dependent on electrical mechanisms.

C. Electromechanical games are those, for whose operation it is necessary to be dependent on electrical mechanisms AND use muscle
force.

D. Electronical games are those, for whose operation it is necessary to be dependent on electrical mechanisms that also have some
calculating (accounting) program.

E. Entertainment "technical" games are those, whose result depends exclusively on the ability and skill of the player, and its use is
solely for entertainment."

Only types B,C,D will be banned. A and E will not be banned unless people are betting on them

"Article 2:

1. It is prohibited the operation of games of type "b", " c" and "d"
of Article 1 (including in personal computers) placed in public places
such as hotels, cafeterias, organization halls and inside any other
public or PRIVATE place.

2. The Mechanical games, are only permitted to be Entertainment
"technical", as defined in the previous Article. Regarding those
games, it is prohibited to make any bets between any persons or to
include any financial gain for any of the players involved. Such bets
will attract penalties described in Articles 4 and 5."

In paragraph 2 of article 2, mechanical games are
only permitted to be "Entertainment Technical", otherwise Type E.

Mike

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Zizzer ]

Atro · Sep 3, 2002

Years back, France had wanted to finish the video games on their country. Hopefully Magazines like Consoles+, Joystick, Joypad, Generation4 didn't let this happen.

But FUCK ! Is that true ? I can't stand on a stupid law like that one.

If I was greek, right now I would have to move to the neighbour country.

I can live without games, but fuck! This is stupid, I like to play man!

Hmmm.... by the way, does any greek reading this have a mint copy of Ninja Masters/Neo Turf Masters/Metal Slug US for sale ? I heard that you can't have games.

50 Bucks each. deal ?

Blaine · Sep 3, 2002

The only problem there is they've classified all games as 1 of 5 types.

The legal games:

Mechanical, which is defined as a game that uses muscle force...which is a game such as soccer or golf.

And Entertainment Techincal, which I believe refers to games such as chess or role-playing games.

Within those catagories, all video games as we know it are illegal as they are all types B,C and D.

In fact, by the letter of this law, any game requiring electricty or electronic means is illegal.

If it's being blown out of proportion...let someone in Greece deterimine it, because greek websites are confirming arcades are closing.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Blaine ]

Zizzer · Sep 3, 2002

Yeah that does suck, I can now understand public arcades closing and other such matters. But, from the way I take it, you can have an arcade or game system in your house as long as you don't plan to make money off of it. Not sure if you could walk around with a Neo Geo Pocket, maybe you'd be confined to playing in it privately owned property

Atro · Sep 3, 2002

I'm sure that the government deputies sons have videogames in their houses.

With that law, they are only making people attitude turn to fuck and do sports. Watching TV ? Bah! Boring as hell.

Poor Greece. Nice Country, poor laws.

Blaine · Sep 3, 2002

Originally posted by Zizzer:
But, from the way I take it, you can have an arcade or game system in your house as long as you don't plan to make money off of it. Not sure if you could walk around with a Neo Geo Pocket, maybe you'd be confined to playing in it privately owned property<hr></blockquote>

"1. It is prohibited the operation of games of type "b", " c" and "d" of Article 1 (including in personal computers) placed in public places such as hotels, cafeterias, organization halls and inside any other public or PRIVATE place."

Prohibited in pubic or private places, pretty much makes it everywhere. It says nothing about making money or not making money.

Not to be an asshole, but you posted this yourself. Did you read it? I have no problem with people disagreeing with me but you said everything was 'totally false' and then posted the law, which just confirms what I said. I really couldn't care less except there are people on these boards who don't always bother to read things for themselves, or even try to understand them. So by you saying "This says the sky is red" and then posting something that explains why the sky is blue, people will just assume it means "the sky is red" without reading it.

That's neither here nor there, but I just want people to know that according to this law, all electronic games are illegal in Greece, on public or private property. It's illegal the same way heroin is illegal in the US. Illegal period.

One could possibly argue that the board game Operation is an illegal device the question of the nature of the 'skill' involved could be brought up, but since video games are not exempt...I don't see how Operation would be.
As of right now there is no action against games on private property but, according to the law, they can.

And it makes no distinction from an arcade cab, console, handheld or videogame watch.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Blaine ]

Zizzer · Sep 3, 2002

Yeah, I'm beginning to think you're right. I'm a bit confused by this though:

"E. Entertainment "technical" games are those, whose result depends exclusively on the ability and skill of the player, and its use is solely for entertainment."

What type of games is this referring to, what's a technical game? something such as a board game?
An arcade game like Pac-Man could, in part, be classified as a technical game as your skill is what determines if you win or lose. However, I understand that it does run on electricity, which would mean it is banned according to article "A", but what does the law refer to in stating an "electrical mechanism"? Would mechanism refer to the fact that it consumes electricty, or does mechanism rather refer to a device that has moving parts that are dependant on electricity?

In any case, I'd like to find out the rationing behind this entire law.

Mike

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Zizzer ]

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Zizzer ]

Blaine · Sep 3, 2002

Originally posted by Zizzer:
Yeah, I'm beginning to think you're right. I'm a bit confused by this though:

"E. Entertainment "technical" games are those, whose result depends exclusively on the ability and skill of the player, and its use is solely for entertainment."

What type of games is this referring to, what's a technical game?
<hr></blockquote>

I believe that catagory refers to games such as chess, backgammon, scrabble...basically board games and related games, actually due to it's specific language where the other ones are vague the one game I immediately thought it was reffering to was poker. It's the only game catagory that specifically re-iterates 'no gambling'. Therefore one would have to assume that catagory contains games that could be used for gambling ends.

Do I know this for sure? No, the english copy of the law is pretty vague and I'm no lawyer.

But if you have to take all of the 'games' in the universe and catagorize them by these 5 different choices...chess isn't electronic, really doesn't require 'muscle' and since it's a technical skill game, it has to be the latter.

Originally posted by Zizzer:
In any case, I'd like to find out the rationing behind this entire law.<hr></blockquote>

The Greek Government admitted they are unable to tell the difference between an electronic game that is used for gambling and one that is used for entertainment.

Which is why they've said no electronic games.

I honestly don't think this will stay this way forever, surely they'll ammend the law further to at least protect the right for private citizens to own and play games.

Click to expand...

Zizzer · Sep 3, 2002

I honestly don't think this will stay this way forever, surely they'll ammend the law further to at least protect the right for private citizens to own and play games.
<hr></blockquote>

Agreed, otherwise half of Greece would probably wind up in jail for playing solitaire in Windows.

Mike

Tacitus · Sep 3, 2002

Now in greece, they're not just for fucking you in the ass anymore... now it's your collection too! ouch!

K9999 · Sep 3, 2002

They always have Chinese Checkers to fall back on.

buster_broon · Sep 3, 2002

didnt australia ban gta3 unless they took out all the gore

Imagine gta3 with out:

any killing at all

its like playing mortal kombat without the fatalities :mad:

NeoLord · Sep 3, 2002

Blaine wrote:
The Greek Government admitted they are unable to tell the difference between an electronic game that is used for gambling and one that is used for entertainment.

Which is why they've said no electronic games. <hr></blockquote>

Ignorance is bliss! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" />

The Auction Sniper · Sep 3, 2002

That is the most fecked up thing I've EVER heard, seriously.

I predict a population drop of 45% if things don't get sorted out to proper sanity there (I wouldn't blame anyone for migrating overseas!).

I wonder what the penalty is for playing Pokemon?

$hockwave · Sep 3, 2002

that is a dam shame it reminds me of the time a couple of months ago in the state of georgia if you had a gambling machine in the stae of georgia you where fined but that is just a step closer to banning video games in this state but why ban gambling video games when you can play the georgia lottery and the anwser is imo the goverment cannot make any profit well anyway back to the subject that really sucks the greece goverment needs to get thier heads examind if they cannot tell the differince between a game for entertanment and gambling.

less than joseph · Sep 3, 2002

haha....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. OMFG BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

-joseph

vincewy · Sep 3, 2002

You got to be kidding, Greece is not Afghanistan, after all, Greece is a member of EU, wonder if Brussel should cancel Greek membership for this.

Video Games Illegal in Greece: Read If You're Planning on Going.

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