Who Had An AES Growing Up in the 90s?

Burning Fight!! · Aug 18, 2020

RAZO said:
I agree with some of the things you mentioned but the games not looking much better graphically than the 16 bit console games is a bit of a stretch. You find me a 16 bit console soccer game that could compete graphically with Super Sidekicks in 92? Find me a 16 bit fighting game that could compete graphically with Art of Fighting in 92? Sure, Street Fighter II was king but the 16 bit console versions couldn't match up in terms of graphics or sound. The Neo-Geo was always a huge step up in that department. Some might argue that games like MagLord could have been ported to 16 bit consoles but they would still be mediocre ports. Look at most of the Neo-Geo ports on 16 bit consoles. They don't compare to the original.

People tend to look at specific details (ie the artstyle, number of colors, number of parallax layers) so it's very easy to miss the big picture... for instance, almost all early Neo games will look lame on the 16-bitters solely on the ROM size advantage. Yeah, the genesis can do a carbon copy of any Magician Lord screenshot of your choice easily, but try fitting Magician Lord's graphics into a 4 mega cart and you'll have to compromise in several areas with loss of detail. The enemies don't look anything special but there are parts where MagLord isn't afraid to put a shitton of them in the same platform level, which would rape any 16 bit console's sprite scanlines limitations. And speaking of enemies, VRAM space is limited on regular consoles so you cannot have too many different enemy/object types into the same screen like you would in Magician Lord... I could go on and on.

Some ports would get closer than others but they would still be very different from the real deal.

HeavyMachineGoob · Aug 18, 2020

Burning Fight!! said:
People tend to look at specific details (ie the artstyle, number of colors, number of parallax layers) so it's very easy to miss the big picture... for instance, almost all early Neo games will look lame on the 16-bitters solely on the ROM size advantage. Yeah, the genesis can do a carbon copy of any Magician Lord screenshot of your choice easily, but try fitting Magician Lord's graphics into a 4 mega cart and you'll have to compromise in several areas with loss of detail. The enemies don't look anything special but there are parts where MagLord isn't afraid to put a shitton of them in the same platform level, which would rape any 16 bit console's sprite scanlines limitations. And speaking of enemies, VRAM space is limited on regular consoles so you cannot have too many different enemy/object types into the same screen like you would in Magician Lord... I could go on and on.

Some ports would get closer than others but they would still be very different from the real deal.

Many early Neo Geo games also used very big characters which ate a lot of sprites. Take Fatal Fury 1, the Genesis and SNES versions had to sacrifice on the size of Raiden, making him not much bigger than Terry, Andy or Joe. On the Neo Geo original, Raiden is massive and takes up a large portion of the screen. It was that kind of wow factor that people were talking about back then.

Avram Merkava · Aug 19, 2020

RAZO said:
I agree with some of the things you mentioned but the games not looking much better graphically than the 16 bit console games is a bit of a stretch. You find me a 16 bit console soccer game that could compete graphically with Super Sidekicks in 92? Find me a 16 bit fighting game that could compete graphically with Art of Fighting in 92? Sure, Street Fighter II was king but the 16 bit console versions couldn't match up in terms of graphics or sound. The Neo-Geo was always a huge step up in that department. Some might argue that games like MagLord could have been ported to 16 bit consoles but they would still be mediocre ports. Look at most of the Neo-Geo ports on 16 bit consoles. They don't compare to the original.

Yeah, I'm always in the minority when I argue that, and it's a matter a degree for me. I meant the early Neo Geo games. The games you mentioned do stand out graphically, you're right, but there were others that were sort of 16 bit-ish that I always found underwhelming in that early lineup that even when I play on emulation today, I think should be on PC Engine or something.

Avram Merkava · Aug 19, 2020

Burning Fight!! said:
People tend to look at specific details (ie the artstyle, number of colors, number of parallax layers) so it's very easy to miss the big picture... for instance, almost all early Neo games will look lame on the 16-bitters solely on the ROM size advantage. Yeah, the genesis can do a carbon copy of any Magician Lord screenshot of your choice easily, but try fitting Magician Lord's graphics into a 4 mega cart and you'll have to compromise in several areas with loss of detail. The enemies don't look anything special but there are parts where MagLord isn't afraid to put a shitton of them in the same platform level, which would rape any 16 bit console's sprite scanlines limitations. And speaking of enemies, VRAM space is limited on regular consoles so you cannot have too many different enemy/object types into the same screen like you would in Magician Lord... I could go on and on.

Some ports would get closer than others but they would still be very different from the real deal.

Yeah, these are excellent points too. It's not simply about one aspect of the graphics, which is a pretty simplistic argument on my part.

Avram Merkava · Aug 19, 2020

ysselcneogeo said:
I totally agree I dont think the neogeo was really mind blowing until 97 with stuff like metal slug and last blade. Its hard to believe that the same system pushing games like magician lord could eventually do Mark of the Wolves. I also have to say though the snes and genesis had some equally impressive and beautiful games. I mean I think games like Seiken Densutsu 3 look pretty much as good as anything the neo has ever done.

That would be the date I would put for when it started getting impressive. But some of the arguments here are also pretty good about the less obvious technical accomplishments of the console.

joe8 · Aug 19, 2020

Avram Merkava said:
Hey Guys,

New member here, and love the forum!

I'm probably getting my first AES shortly, and it's making me think...

I was 11 - 14 years old in the early 90s, during the AES' heyday. Those of you around back then probably remember how much of an, almost, urban myth, the AES was. It was a time before the internet, before any one of us had the ability to vet playground rumors. Our only information on this fabled system came from hearsay, mostly in the form of, "I know this guy, who knows this guy, who knows this guy, who has a Neo Geo!" In short, most of us didn't really think the AES really existed, until we actually saw pictures of them online in high school (they weren't sold at TRU, etc.).

I sincerely don't want to embarrass anyone, or shine a spotlight on anyone's privilege growing up. But I do want to know who actually owned these systems back when they first came out, and what it was like. I mean, in our minds -- back in the early nineties -- you AES owners were living like Ricky Schroder in Silver Spoons. Did you also have a rideable model train? What other toys did you have? The GI Joe aircraft carrier? Fortress Maximus? I am sincerely, 1000% not being facetious here. It's been 30 years. I'm not envious. My curiosity is purely academic.

Those old shits here, like me, who were around for the AES debut, remember the fabled status this console had on the playground. Let's hear from the wizards who wielded its power.

Edit: After re-reading this post, I realized the tone could be misconstrued as dickhead-ish. Again, if you could put yourself in the mindset of those of us growing up back then, owning one of those consoles was almost the stuff of legend. I just want to know what it was like, and more about WHO those people were. If I embarrassed anyone, I sincerely apologize. That's not my intent at all.

The Neo Geo was too expensive to buy in Australia in the early 90's. You had to buy a console on import, which would would have cost about 50-100% extra (on top of what the Americans were paying for it), as there were import taxes and exchange rates. And you couldn't rent the games for it from a video store. There were MVS cabs in every arcade, so you could just play the games there, anyway.
Maybe the situation had changed by the late 90s, when the AES was getting old, and sold for less.

Shmuppy · Aug 19, 2020

RAZO said:
The Neo was way too pricey. I knew damn well not to even ask my parents for anything that expensive. I asked for a Sega Genesis instead and even till this day I think I made the right choice.

Pricey? Damn right. You get what you paid for? "More" than that. As I was getting into JAMMA PCBs at the time (1990+) the Neo games were "pretty" cheap in comparison to a Gradius2 for 650 of today's bucks. These days we'll get a 12TF XBox with Halo Infinite which makes me wanna go to sleep... Back to the price, yeah I didn't ask my mom either and was very lucky to have a side job (still in school) in that import shop with everything MD/PCE/NG/GB/SFC had to offer. And yes IMO the Genesis was the right choice for you (I bought mine in early 1989 as import anyway) b/c more diversity, less expensive and SEGA

yagamikun · Aug 19, 2020

ysselcneogeo said:
I totally agree I dont think the neogeo was really mind blowing until 97 with stuff like metal slug and last blade. Its hard to believe that the same system pushing games like magician lord could eventually do Mark of the Wolves. I also have to say though the snes and genesis had some equally impressive and beautiful games. I mean I think games like Seiken Densutsu 3 look pretty much as good as anything the neo has ever done.

Avram Merkava said:
That would be the date I would put for when it started getting impressive. But some of the arguments here are also pretty good about the less obvious technical accomplishments of the console.

I gotta go with 1995 being the year Neo games began to look "next gen.". Games like Pulstar, Real Bout, Fatal Fury 3, Samurai Shodown 3 - and just around the corner in the first half of 1996 we saw Art of Fighting 3 in March and Metal Slug in May.

1997 was a pretty dry year for the Neo with only four releases. The Last Blade is brilliant for sure, and a true masterpiece in art design and 2D sprite animation - but if we're just talking "graphics wow-factor" 95-96 was the big leap.

Even though I don't much "like" the game, I still think Art of Fighting 3 is the highlight of the mid-90's era graphically. The game is absolutely gorgeous.

Hawwa · Aug 19, 2020

Well, here's my story.

Of course I've never owend an AES. I was born in the early 80's and my first videoconsole (aside from some game&watchesque clones) was an Atari clone (of course). After that came a legit Zelda G&W (which I still own in pretty good shape) and a Game Boy. I could afford Game Boy games but later on came the SuperNintendo, for which the games were somewhere in between 50€-90€, and that was way above what I could afford. So Imagine trying to convince my parents to buy me a 600€ videoconsole with 200€ games LOL

I only had Donkey Kong Country for SuperNes, the rest of the SNES games I had to rent or go play at a friend's house, or trade with a friend for a few weeks (everybody got tired of my DKC so that lasted a few months).

Being that said, I've only came to know one person that said he owned a Neo-Geo, his parents where rich but not filthy rich, taking that and the fact that allowed nobody to go see the videoconsole into consideration makes me think he was a fucking liar. And for the part of seeing an AES, I had to wait until around 1996 that a local game shop put one on display. Was the same display they used to put SNES, MegaDrive and the like so you could play some credits, but the AES had no controller so you could only see the graphics and marvel that the console really did display the same images as the arcade. I fucking remember that day.

And about the arcade, I was quite the opposite, aside from SF2, King of Dragons, Sunset Riders and the big hitters, I was always playing Neo Turf Masters, Puzzle Booble, FFs, SSs, MSs and so on, the Neo-Geo chime accompanied me through all my teenage years at the local arcades.

kickrunner001 · Aug 19, 2020

I can still remember, for our parents at that time hardware and software were still foreign words. But my brother was already excited back then and wanted AES. Oh, were those fights at home. He got a job and earned his first money hard. In the late 90's it was time for him to start. I think he did not earn his first car that hard ;-).

c0nn0r · Aug 19, 2020

I almost had an AES growing up. Around 1992 my mom took me to Detroit to do some shopping (common thing to do for Canadian's back then) and she agreed to buy me an AES for my birthday. I was stoked. I was sure we would find one, but alas it was not ot be. Never found one after driving around to all the toy stores...

Oh well, I'm and MVS Executive now, so it all worked out ok in the end.

Avram Merkava · Aug 19, 2020

It's an understatement to state that I have a shitload of respect for you lads who worked your asses off to buy your own AES. You deserve your own after-school special movie.

redfield0009 · Aug 19, 2020

Burning Fight!! said:
bulbousbeard you logged into the wrong account to post this

Don't lump me in with that mame loving fuck tard

HeavyMachineGoob · Aug 19, 2020

c0nn0r said:
I almost had an AES growing up. Around 1992 my mom took me to Detroit to do some shopping (common thing to do for Canadian's back then) and she agreed to buy me an AES for my birthday. I was stoked. I was sure we would find one, but alas it was not ot be. Never found one after driving around to all the toy stores...

Oh well, I'm and MVS Executive now, so it all worked out ok in the end.

You could still make the dream happen. I got an AES on eBay for $200 USD and the commons can still be found for under $100 easily. There's also the 161-in-1 AES on aliexpress for around $100.

Knud · Aug 20, 2020

HMG said:
You could still make the dream happen. I got an AES on eBay for $200 USD and the commons can still be found for under $100 easily. There's also the 161-in-1 AES on aliexpress for around $100.

Is that 161-in-1 all right?

BlackaneseNiNjA · Aug 20, 2020

We were poor so I grew up playing on local mvs machines; Fatal Fury 1 in particular.

Naika · Aug 20, 2020

Sheee-it, not me.

Shmuppy · Aug 20, 2020

BlackaneseNiNjA said:
We were poor so I grew up playing on local mvs machines; Fatal Fury 1 in particular.

So you grew up with Arcade which I find cool. I wanted to (wasn't rich at all too), and kinda achieved it until they kicked us out, again, b/c we were 15. Over here in G under 18 no Arcade b/c of these effing "fruit gambling machines" all over the place. We have Las Vegas in mini and not so mini at "every corner"

I hate these machines. A good friend of mine was an addict to these f*ckers.

HeavyMachineGoob · Aug 20, 2020

Knud said:
Is that 161-in-1 all right?

As far as I know it works well. I don't yet have one, only the MVS version, which is definitely fantastic.

ysselcneogeo · Aug 20, 2020

yagamikun said:
I gotta go with 1995 being the year Neo games began to look "next gen.". Games like Pulstar, Real Bout, Fatal Fury 3, Samurai Shodown 3 - and just around the corner in the first half of 1996 we saw Art of Fighting 3 in March and Metal Slug in May.

1997 was a pretty dry year for the Neo with only four releases. The Last Blade is brilliant for sure, and a true masterpiece in art design and 2D sprite animation - but if we're just talking "graphics wow-factor" 95-96 was the big leap.

Even though I don't much "like" the game, I still think Art of Fighting 3 is the highlight of the mid-90's era graphically. The game is absolutely gorgeous.

I always forget that metal slug wasnt 97. I still stand though that things like Fatal Fury 3 and Real Bout look more like beefed up snes or genesis. They dont just have so much depth and color that you feel that its impossible on snes of genesis. The only thing impressive about the 95-96 era stuff is simply how huge the sprites where. We didnt start getting what i'd consider vibrant games till metal slug and up.

Knud · Aug 21, 2020

HMG said:
As far as I know it works well. I don't yet have one, only the MVS version, which is definitely fantastic.

It is at least one of the cheapest options to give the games a try on the hardware.

These things are sometimes built with bad components for the consoles, with parts for another voltages etc. Was mostly wondering about that

Neo Alec · Aug 21, 2020

ysselcneogeo said:
I still stand though that things like Fatal Fury 3 and Real Bout look more like beefed up snes or genesis.

The Fatal Fury ports from Takara that the SNES and Genesis did actually get are the reality. In your fantasy we're getting games that are hundreds of megs on those systems. And don't play stiff.

neo_mao · Aug 21, 2020

Ya this definitely ain’t happening on a Genesis or SNES

Atro · Aug 21, 2020

neo_moe said:
View attachment 57557

Ya this definitely ain’t happening on a Genesis or SNES

IT even struggles a PS1...

The Saturn one was nice, but at the expese of that ROM cart. The Snes could barely run a SF Alpha game, and that with the help of an external CPU.

Digmac · Aug 21, 2020

ysselcneogeo said:
I always forget that metal slug wasnt 97. I still stand though that things like Fatal Fury 3 and Real Bout look more like beefed up snes or genesis. They dont just have so much depth and color that you feel that its impossible on snes of genesis. The only thing impressive about the 95-96 era stuff is simply how huge the sprites where. We didnt start getting what i'd consider vibrant games till metal slug and up.

Come back when you get a Genesis or SNES running Pulstar 1:1 even with the external cart processors.

Yeah. You’re kinda full of it.

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