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Thread: New LGR video about using arcade boards @ home, including the MVS.

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by andsuchisdeath View Post
    I mean, I try my best to have a mature "who cares" approach to this kind of stuff...and for the most part I do these days.

    But, IDK. If someone needs an a "youtube entertainment/influencer" to open up your eyes to aspects of a hobby you're "into"...how" into it" can you really be?

    Like, if you truly enjoy this stuff so much wouldn't you have done your own research and made different choices years ago?

    Everybody has to start somewhere, and I get that, but for a very longtime I've found it strange how there's relatively little backlash toward these youtube channels/personalities and the typical fanbase it attracts. Though this thread kind of proves otherwise.

    Disclosure : I'm kind of in a hurry right now, if this post doesn't make sense, sorry.
    I hear what you're sayin ASID. Perhaps new fans can't always help what they don't know when they enter new parts of the hobby. I'm sure there are younger fans who are just discovering the previous generations of games and the appeal of older arcade titles. Or maybe they are older fans who discovered that they don't need to be as tech-savvy as they may have previously thought to enjoy arcade hardware.

    I'd hate to think of people buying up authentic arcade hardware just to never play it, but if they are willing to maintain the boards and actually play the games, I think it's dope to see new blood enter the hobby.

    The popularity of the Arcade1up products show that there is a decent demand for an arcade-style 'experience' from a lot of gamers out there both young and old. Rather than the boards rotting in storage from old arcade operators and former enthusiasts, it's not bad to see people give these games a second shot at life if they are willing to enjoy and play them imho.

    From what I can see, most of the OG fans have long moved on to MiSTer FPGA, emulation, sd carts, and other alternative gaming solutions anyway (which is fine and cool too).

    I got nothing against youtubers really since I figure collectors are going to find stuff to collect and accumulate either way. Regarding aftermarket costs, if prices do continue to rise, doesn't it only affect those who are also just now choosing to buy these boards after all this time?

    I'm not looking for another arcade renaissance; I just think it's not a bad thing to see some of these new fans possibly become fellow enthusiasts for the hardware and gameplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackaneseNiNjA View Post
    From what I can see, most of the OG fans have long moved on to MiSTer FPGA, emulation, sd carts, and other alternative gaming solutions anyway (which is fine and cool too).
    That seems to be the case for OG fans and "n00b" arcade enthusiasts alike. I just posted a "How To" tutorial on setting up the new Sega System 16 Multi that just came out, and I'm getting a ton of responses saying "why bother - the MiSTer core will be out soon." I predict that most OG arcade PCB prices will stabilize as soon as there's MiSTer cores for the most popular 20 - 25 games.

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    Little do people know, if you don't get the next generation into the hobby, then the value of your plastic crap completely collapses.
    See:
    pez, atari, western toys, spaceman toys, he-man, gi-joe....hummel. pretty much any action figure really. HotWheels....

    people think NES, neo geo, and others will continue to go up... history suggests otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShootTheCore View Post
    That seems to be the case for OG fans and "n00b" arcade enthusiasts alike. I just posted a "How To" tutorial on setting up the new Sega System 16 Multi that just came out, and I'm getting a ton of responses saying "why bother - the MiSTer core will be out soon." I predict that most OG arcade PCB prices will stabilize as soon as there's MiSTer cores for the most popular 20 - 25 games.
    I think the MiSTer is the most overhyped thing ever, don't get me wrong it seems like a good device, but for some reason someone says "FPGA" and people think those are some kind of sci-fi like universal IC replicator, one that's going to be 120% similar to the original custom ICs in those old consoles. They fail to realize someone needs to program them, and guess what? Knowledge to program console cores comes from... emulation.

    And inflated prices comes from people hyping their own collection and claiming emulation will never come close for that ARCADE FEEL. Noobs usually go through the path of least resistance and when they do buy original hardware (because of the aforementioned old tymer hype) they usually buy the cheapest options anyway (bananacarts/neosd, shitty chinese superguns, etc), especially in the arcade domain which not many people will dare enter because, quite frankly, it's a pain in the ass hobby.
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    I like the idea of FPGAs because it gives people a thing to buy to feel like they've accomplished something and will more or less provide a better experience than poorly configured emulation so they won't necessarily end up seeking out the real thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSneth View Post
    Little do people know, if you don't get the next generation into the hobby, then the value of your plastic crap completely collapses.
    See:
    pez, atari, western toys, spaceman toys, he-man, gi-joe....hummel. pretty much any action figure really. HotWheels....
    Good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Fight!! View Post
    I think the MiSTer is the most overhyped thing ever, don't get me wrong it seems like a good device, but for some reason someone says "FPGA" and people think those are some kind of sci-fi like universal IC replicator, one that's going to be 120% similar to the original custom ICs in those old consoles. They fail to realize someone needs to program them, and guess what? Knowledge to program console cores comes from... emulation.

    And inflated prices comes from people hyping their own collection and claiming emulation will never come close for that ARCADE FEEL. Noobs usually go through the path of least resistance and when they do buy original hardware (because of the aforementioned old tymer hype) they usually buy the cheapest options anyway (bananacarts/neosd, shitty chinese superguns, etc), especially in the arcade domain which not many people will dare enter because, quite frankly, it's a pain in the ass hobby.
    While I agree with you, to be fair to Mister and other FPGA solutions, they do at least seem to be based on hardware schematics (which were often not available when a lot of the legacy MAME code was written), so they tend to be pretty accurate in ways that old emulators weren't and don't always suffer from the same timing problems that you run into with a lot of software emulators. They're not a silver bullet, but they have the potential to be pretty damn near indistinguishable from real hardware going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulbousbeard View Post
    While I agree with you...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Fight!! View Post
    I think the MiSTer is the most overhyped thing ever, don't get me wrong it seems like a good device, but for some reason someone says "FPGA" and people think those are some kind of sci-fi like universal IC replicator, one that's going to be 120% similar to the original custom ICs in those old consoles. They fail to realize someone needs to program them, and guess what? Knowledge to program console cores comes from... emulation.
    This is mostly true, although I'd like to specify that some developers are creating the VDHL files by using powerful logic analyzers connected to original borads' custom ICs pins to see exactly what they do and reproduce them in their FPGA code.
    Jotego is one of those for sure, he's made lots of cores as of today and those cores are 100% accurate.

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    FPGA people are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING about it, they are like those damn rasperry pi emulator fans. They just won't fucking shut up about it. But, to be honest, original hardware is starting to get old and problematic. I wouldnt mind some sort of FPGA solution for Neo-Geo cart that actually read from original carts. I don't mean some sort of 'dump from carts and read the roms' solution. I mean something that would read the data from the carts, like the real deal.

    I got quite a lot of Midway boards, aka Killer Instinct 1/2, MK1/2/3, NBA JAM and those boards are starting to get fussy these days. A modern 100% accurate hardware reproduction of those boards that worked with the originals rom chips would be interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuri View Post
    FPGA people are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING about it, they are like those damn rasperry pi emulator fans. They just won't fucking shut up about it. But, to be honest, original hardware is starting to get old and problematic. I wouldnt mind some sort of FPGA solution for Neo-Geo cart that actually read from original carts. I don't mean some sort of 'dump from carts and read the roms' solution. I mean something that would read the data from the carts, like the real deal.

    I got quite a lot of Midway boards, aka Killer Instinct 1/2, MK1/2/3, NBA JAM and those boards are starting to get fussy these days. A modern 100% accurate hardware reproduction of those boards that worked with the originals rom chips would be interesting.
    And just like the Pi crowd, they’ll move onto something else to screech at.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuri View Post
    I don't mean some sort of 'dump from carts and read the roms' solution. I mean something that would read the data from the carts, like the real deal.
    I mean... dumping the carts and reading the ROMs or reading the ROMs from the cart itself will yield the exact same result (ie: look at the NeoSD).

    So, out of curiosity, is this because you actually like or enjoy the feel of having the carts themselves and plugging them in and out?
    Because that's something which would be 100% doable, even with the MiSTer, you just need to have enough I/O pins available.

    I'm sure that if you would request this in the MiSTer Github and people would come in and second your request, it will eventually be done.
    Last edited by donluca; 06-02-2020 at 10:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donluca View Post
    I mean... dumping the carts and reading the ROMs or reading the ROMs from the cart itself will yield the exact same result (ie: look at the NeoSD).

    So, out of curiosity, is this because you actually like or enjoy the feel of having the carts themselves and plugging them in and out?
    Because that's something which would be 100% doable, even with the MiSTer, you just need to have enough I/O pins available.

    I'm sure that if you would request this in the MiSTer Github and people would come in and second your request, it will eventually be done.
    There have been many, many requests already to add "live read" cartridge slots to the MiSTer, but the problem is that the DE-10 Nano hardware barely has enough General Purpose I/O pins available to handle even smaller cartridges like Atari 2600, let alone behemoths like dual-PCB Neo Geo carts. And many of those available GPIO pins are already being used for SDRAM modules.

    A "plug in cart, dump the ROM, and then load it into the appropriate core" solution is possible through the USB ports though.
    Last edited by ShootTheCore; 06-02-2020 at 04:41 PM.

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    Whats the point though? Just plug them in an AES or MVS. Why does the MISTer need to support physical carts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by andsuchisdeath View Post
    I mean, I try my best to have a mature "who cares" approach to this kind of stuff...and for the most part I do these days.

    But, IDK. If someone needs an a "youtube entertainment/influencer" to open up your eyes to aspects of a hobby you're "into"...how" into it" can you really be?

    Like, if you truly enjoy this stuff so much wouldn't you have done your own research and made different choices years ago?

    Everybody has to start somewhere, and I get that, but for a very longtime I've found it strange how there's relatively little backlash toward these youtube channels/personalities and the typical fanbase it attracts. Though this thread kind of proves otherwise.

    Disclosure : I'm kind of in a hurry right now, if this post doesn't make sense, sorry.
    Every once in awhile Iíll see a game on YT I had less than zero idea about. Somehow it just never came across my radar. Iíd say itís rare that it happens but it still does now and again. Mostly obscure Japanese PS1 stuff shown on ThorHighHeels channel lately. Weird videos but also pretty legit

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    Quote Originally Posted by redfield0009 View Post
    Whats the point though? Just plug them in an AES or MVS. Why does the MISTer need to support physical carts?
    To get away from an ageing and limited source of motherboards. Now I wouldn't get anxious about that but people out there do. Buuut carts die too so it's just a farce all round anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    To get away from an ageing and limited source of motherboards. Now I wouldn't get anxious about that but people out there do. Buuut carts die too so it's just a farce all round anyway.
    Indeed.

    I was just addressing a user who, for reasons unstated, wanted to use real physical carts.
    I believe that by clever multiplexing or maybe just using USB headers you could do it on the MiSTer, but again... it would be quite some work to do and I personally really can't see the benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuri View Post
    FPGA people are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING about it, they are like those damn rasperry pi emulator fans. They just won't fucking shut up about it. But, to be honest, original hardware is starting to get old and problematic.
    I'm a Pi fan, but whether it's a software emulator or FPGA, either one is only as good as their code and not the solution for all things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donluca View Post
    Indeed.

    I was just addressing a user who, for reasons unstated, wanted to use real physical carts.
    I believe that by clever multiplexing or maybe just using USB headers you could do it on the MiSTer, but again... it would be quite some work to do and I personally really can't see the benefit.
    If you were referring to me, I just prefer physical games regardless of the system. I don't buy these games just to sit on a shelf. For me, there is magic inside that snap lock. I enjoy looking at the manuals and the inserts. I like sitting on the floor and looking up and seeing that big ass cart with a pretty label sticking out of my AES.

    Besides the questionable emulation I've experienced in the past, my biggest gripe I have with emulation, SD carts and multicarts is too many options.

    When I have an entire library at my finger tips I never invest the time to master anything. However, if I just have a handful of AES games I devote the time to play them and try to learn them inside and out.

    Just personal preference.
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    Nope, if you look at previous post you'll see I've quoted the message of the user who wanted to use real carts.

    Broadly speaking, I also agree with your views.

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