MVS Conservation

juanking · Aug 31, 2019

I got thinking, as time passes mvs carts and systems will slowly start to go down in numbers, how you guys see the neo geo scene in maybe 10 years?

titchgamer · Aug 31, 2019

This applies to all retro gaming.

All electronics degrade and will eventually fail. Thankfully there are people clever enough to keep stuff going parts permitting.

But because stuff will eventually die totally and not be repairable then that is where emulation becomes important.

My bigger concern is with CRT’s at the moment though tbh.

RAZO · Aug 31, 2019

Flash carts, FPGA consoles, and emulation will keep the Neo alive.

Emulation has come a long way and is only getting better.

I wouldn't worry at all.

XxHennersXx · Aug 31, 2019

RAZO said:
Flash carts, FPGA consoles, and emulation will keep the Neo alive.

Emulation has come a long way and is only getting better.

I wouldn't worry at all.

This. Especially FPGAs.

I’d love analogue come out with a FPGA Neo Geo. Call it something like the NT Gold, Neo NT, NG Gold or something

BlackaneseNiNjA · Aug 31, 2019

RAZO said:
Flash carts, FPGA consoles, and emulation will keep the Neo alive.

Emulation has come a long way and is only getting better.

I wouldn't worry at all.

+1
Between emulation and enthusiasts who will always opt to keep og hardware alive in some way (like retro/classic car enthusiasts do), the future will always be now. :buttrock:

Also, obligatory:

kingcuckmelon1 · Aug 31, 2019

As soon as there is an FPGA / Jamma Neo Geo solution, ill stop using my MVS boards and carts to preserve them. I'd much rather play on the real hardware but what can we do? I agree with the above poster, CRT's are the bigger worry. I have thought about what solutions could be implemented for this. There must be a way to recreate the CRT experience with more modern technology.

heihachi · Aug 31, 2019

XxHennersXx said:
This. Especially FPGAs.

I’d love analogue come out with a FPGA Neo Geo. Call it something like the NT Gold, Neo NT, NG Gold or something

Yeah, I’d be all over this.

titchgamer · Sep 1, 2019

kidchameleon1 said:
I agree with the above poster, CRT's are the bigger worry. I have thought about what solutions could be implemented for this. There must be a way to recreate the CRT experience with more modern technology.

I really hope so!

oliverclaude · Sep 1, 2019

I hope so, too. The best solution now would be probably a custom OLED panel in 4:3 with an in-built FPGA converter to support all the standard definitions we need. Good controllers can already be built, the M30 is proof of that. Good monitors are still a problem, but in my opinion, it's one that can be solved in the near future.

theMot · Sep 1, 2019

juanking said:
neo geo scene in maybe 10 years?

Same as now. Noobs entering the scene all enthusiastic that they can finally afford this old brittle garbage. I’ll probably be on a yacht cruising the Mediterranean not giving a fuck.

kingcuckmelon1 · Sep 1, 2019

oliverclaude said:
I hope so, too. The best solution now would be probably a custom OLED panel in 4:3 with an in-built FPGA converter to support all the standard definitions we need. Good controllers can already be built, the M30 is proof of that. Good monitors are still a problem, but in my opinion, it's one that can be solved in the near future.

Can OLED be made into a convex shape like a CRT? That would be the first requirement. Secondly, proper scan-lines, not emulated ones.

titchgamer · Sep 1, 2019

kidchameleon1 said:
Can OLED be made into a convex shape like a CRT? That would be the first requirement. Secondly, proper scan-lines, not emulated ones.

Dont see why not, They can make them curve horizontally now so would just be a case of doing the vert to.

High refresh rate needed to.

But if you could get real scanlines back you could prob play old skool light gun games to.

That would be truly jizz worthy.

Neo Alec · Sep 1, 2019

kidchameleon1 said:
As soon as there is an FPGA / Jamma Neo Geo solution, ill stop using my MVS boards and carts to preserve them. I'd much rather play on the real hardware but what can we do? I agree with the above poster, CRT's are the bigger worry. I have thought about what solutions could be implemented for this. There must be a way to recreate the CRT experience with more modern technology.

What exactly are you trying to prevent by no longer using your hardware? Using the console doesn't put much wear on the hardware. Leaving your systems stored away for long periods of time will do far more damage than any use could. As long as it's still working, you'd might as well use it.

kidchameleon1 said:
Can OLED be made into a convex shape like a CRT? That would be the first requirement. Secondly, proper scan-lines, not emulated ones.

That's a terrible idea. What's the point? No matter what you do you're just faking it. It's never going to be a CRT. I never thought we would reach this level of faux purist insanity. It's time to move on and focus on what modern TV's do well - produce a far cleaner and more stable image. I have a CRT too, but I'm not some puritanical CRT nazi who can't admit that the new technology is better.

Seriously, is this a troll post? You are like a parody of a hardware purist. Like an alien or a computer who has been reading retrogaming forums trying to pass yourself off as human.

titchgamer · Sep 1, 2019

Neo Alec said:
What exactly are you trying to prevent by no longer using your hardware? Using the console doesn't put much wear on the hardware. Leaving your systems stored away for long periods of time will do far more damage than any use could. As long as it's still working, you'd might as well use it.

That's a terrible idea. What's the point? No matter what you do you're just faking it. It's never going to be a CRT. I never thought we would reach this level of faux purist insanity. It's time to move on and focus on what modern TV's do well - produce a far cleaner and more stable image. I have a CRT too, but I'm not some puritanical CRT nazi who can't admit that the new technology is better.

Seriously, is this a troll post? You are like a parody of a hardware purist. Like an alien or a computer who has been reading retrogaming forums trying to pass yourself off as human.

Modern TV’s are arguably better.

But you cant play time Crisis on one with a Gcon 45....

kingcuckmelon1 · Sep 1, 2019

Neo Alec said:
What exactly are you trying to prevent by no longer using your hardware? Using the console doesn't put much wear on the hardware. Leaving your systems stored away for long periods of time will do far more damage than any use could. As long as it's still working, you'd might as well use it.

Fair point

Neo Alec said:
It's time to move on and focus on what modern TV's do well - produce a far cleaner and more stable image.

Modern TV's look completely crappy compared to a CRT for 90's gaming, there's no denying it. Also, I am not suggesting creating a CRT, I'm suggesting replicating one using modern tech. By very definition that is different to a CRT.

Neo Alec said:
Seriously, is this a troll post?

No

HeavyMachineGoob · Sep 1, 2019

kidchameleon1 said:
As soon as there is an FPGA / Jamma Neo Geo solution, ill stop using my MVS boards and carts to preserve them. I'd much rather play on the real hardware but what can we do? I agree with the above poster, CRT's are the bigger worry. I have thought about what solutions could be implemented for this. There must be a way to recreate the CRT experience with more modern technology.

Using original hardware doesn't wear it out faster, integrated circuits from the 90s are pretty tough and should last several decades easily, whether you use them or not.

There are three key characteristics you could look into to lengthen the life of your Neo hardware though, those being heat, power and water. ICs that generate heat need good cooling to prevent an early failure. None of the chips in a Neo Geo generate any significant heat unless they have shorted inside.

Dirty or unstable power can damage computer hardware, you could get a good surge protector or a UPS to fix that. Water damage is important too, make sure the building you are keeping your Neo hardware in doesn't have a ton of humidity, maybe get a dehumidifier if you need one.

Beyond all that, old 90s computer hardware like the Neo Geo was built to last, you've got several decades to go yet before anything could be expected to die. I'd bet your Neo Geo will outlive yourself.

c0nn0r · Sep 1, 2019

Part of the charm of a CRT is the “tube” and it’s unique presentation. The curvature of one tube is different from another etc. Current solution for dead tubes in an arcade cab is to replace with a flat panel that never looks right. I’d love a modern display solution that could match the -form factor- of popular old tubes. This would update the display on classic arcade cabinets, while maintaining original aesthetics.

I’d pay ~$1k for a 29” 4:3 FOLED that has same screen shape as a NAC. Of course it would also need to focus on ‘lag-free’ operation.

Would be excellent to shed the weight of a 29” CRT as well ;-)

Neo Alec · Sep 2, 2019

kidchameleon1 said:
Modern TV's look completely crappy compared to a CRT for 90's gaming, there's no denying it.

I disagree. Sometimes I enjoy the super sharp look of 240p games scaled up.to 1080p. The games can look shaper and cleaner than the game's creators could have imagined.

c0nn0r said:
Current solution for dead tubes in an arcade cab is to replace with a flat panel that never looks right.

The Up Down near me has a 6-player original Konami X-Men cab with two little LCD flat panel monitors pushed together. I love that machine, but seeing it in such a sorry state, I couldn't bother to play it. The "seam" in the middle having two CRT's pushed right up to the edge of one another BITD was just beyond bad-ass!

oliverclaude · Sep 2, 2019

Neo Alec said:
I disagree. Sometimes I enjoy the super sharp look of 240p games scaled up.to 1080p. The games can look shaper and cleaner than the game's creators could have imagined.

I have the same experience. Even scaling them up to 4K can look excellent. It's a matter of adaptation: if we had such a look back then, we would have troubles to accept a CRT. To be honest, if I wanted a look from 'back then', I'd have to go back to composite video. Forget it.

The look is not much of a problem in gaming now, bad lag and/or controls are. Maybe the format, too. It really is an (aesthetically) important difference to see 4:3 material on a 4:3 monitor, without black bars on both sides.

RAZO · Sep 2, 2019

Neo Alec said:
What exactly are you trying to prevent by no longer using your hardware? Using the console doesn't put much wear on the hardware. Leaving your systems stored away for long periods of time will do far more damage than any use could. As long as it's still working, you'd might as well use it.

That's a terrible idea. What's the point? No matter what you do you're just faking it. It's never going to be a CRT. I never thought we would reach this level of faux purist insanity. It's time to move on and focus on what modern TV's do well - produce a far cleaner and more stable image. I have a CRT too, but I'm not some puritanical CRT nazi who can't admit that the new technology is better.

Seriously, is this a troll post? You are like a parody of a hardware purist. Like an alien or a computer who has been reading retrogaming forums trying to pass yourself off as human.

A bunch of great points.

"Please don't "Preserve" your hardware by tucking it away in some box for years. You will be faced with disappointment when you go to turn it on a few years later and it doesn't work anymore. Use the shit out of it while you still own it. If something stops working one day then get it fixed if possible but don't let hardware sit for too long. I've had my share of bad experiences with arcade pcbs.

Same goes for carts as well.

@kidchameleon1

I have a analogue mega sg and super nt running on a modern TV and the picture looks fantastic. The image looks cleaner, brighter, more crisp. Not saying it looks better than CRT with scanlines. It looks different but in a good way.

Heinz · Sep 2, 2019

LOL there will never be an OLED made to recreate a CRT's curvature, what incredibly ridiculous 'stuck in the past' bullshit dream that is! Not emulated scanlines!? wtf? this isn't 1999! This is 2019! Nobody gives a fuck about scanlines except a small bunch of CRT purists who instead of being scared about maintaining their CRT's should start reading up on them and/or hoarding them. (for which they already do..)

kingcuckmelon1 · Sep 2, 2019

HMG said:
..

Great advise there, thanks

Neo Alec said:
I disagree. Sometimes I enjoy the super sharp look of 240p games scaled up.to 1080p.

How does your nice 1080p screen look inside your cab? Great I bet.

Neo Alec said:
The games can look shaper and cleaner than the game's creators could have imagined.

And therein lies my main gripe, I want to play them exactly how the creator imagined. It personal choice though, you take your sharp image and Ill take my pixelated one. Have a nice day.

lachlan said:
LOL there will never be an OLED made to recreate a CRT's curvature, what incredibly ridiculous 'stuck in the past' bullshit dream that is! Not emulated scanlines!? wtf?

OLED was one suggestion, there may be other, better solutions

RAZO · Sep 2, 2019

kidchameleon1 said:
Great advise there, thanks

How does your nice 1080p screen look inside your cab? Great I bet.

And therein lies my main gripe, I want to play them exactly how the creator imagined. It personal choice though, you take your sharp image and Ill take my pixelated one. Have a nice day.

OLED was one suggestion, there may be other, better solutions

I understand what you're saying but eventually crts will go. So get ready for it. I've had 3 pvm's crap out on me in the last couple of years and they keep getting more expensive. I had a Nanao monitor crap out on my Astro. When the 29" pvm went out on me I was heart broken lol.

I remember when people were giving them away and now 13" monitors are selling for almost $200 with out knowing when it will expire. Enjoy those crts while you still can. I have 4 more and when they go, I'm done.

XxHennersXx · Sep 2, 2019

I’m honestly enjoying my games upscale better than my PVMs. I’m getting rid of my CRTs - once I have all my consoles RGB modded and going to my OSSC & RetroTink i don’t know if I’ll keep my Main one around anymore.

It’s gaudy in the living room and I really only keep it around for light gun games and when I throw parties it’s nice to have a old party game on the CRT (Mario party, Tony Hawk, Mario Kart 64) while a newer game is being played on the 4K TV. That being said it hasn’t really been used since May.

Neo Alec · Sep 2, 2019

Actually, 4K can be better than 1080p, since it's an even integer scale from 240p.

kidchameleon1, I agree with you about CRTs in cabs. Best to maintain it well and enjoy it while it still works.

MVS Conservation

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