Comedian winning first round of Ukraine election

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47767440

A comedian with no political experience has won the most votes in the first round of Ukraine's presidential elections, early results indicate.

With half the ballots counted, Volodymyr Zelenskiy - who plays the president on TV - got about 30%, with current leader Petro Poroshenko on 16%.

The two - who have expressed largely pro-EU opinions - are set to take part in a run-off election next month.

Former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko appears to have been eliminated.

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"I'm very happy but this is not the final action," Mr Zelenskiy told the BBC's Jonah Fisher, minutes after exit polls were announced.

Mr Poroshenko described his second-place showing as a "harsh lesson".

Regions where no vote was taken
Rebel-held areas of Donetsk and Luhansk
Russia annexed Crimea and Sevastopol in 2014

WHOLE UKRAINE
Votes for each candidate (%)
Turnout: 63.53%
Volodymyr Zelenskiy
30.32
Petro Poroshenko
16.02
Yulia Tymoshenko
13.30
Yuriy Boyko
11.53
Anatoliy Hrytsenko
7.02
Ihor Smeshko
5.96
Oleh Lyashko
5.38
Voting results for all candidates on the Ukrainian Election Commission website

The interior ministry says hundreds of electoral violations have been reported, but foreign observers say the vote appeared to be mainly smooth.

A total of 39 candidates were on the ballot paper. With none receiving more than 50%, the top two will go forward to the run-off on 21 April.

The Ukrainian president has significant powers over security, defence and foreign policy, in a system described as semi-presidential.

Mr Zelenskiy is aiming to turn his satirical TV show Servant of the People - in which he portrays an ordinary citizen who becomes president after fighting corruption - into reality.

He has torn up the rulebook for election campaigning, staging no rallies and giving few interviews. He appears to have no strong political views apart from a wish to be new and different.

His extensive use of social media appealed to younger voters.

Mr Zelenskiy's readiness to speak both Russian and Ukrainian, at a time when language rights are a hugely sensitive topic, gained him support in Ukraine's largely Russian-speaking east.

His Achilles heel, however, is his relationship with Ukraine's most controversial oligarch, Igor Kolomoisky, says our Kiev correspondent.

Mr Kolomoisky is the owner of TV channel 1+1 - which has given fulsome support to Me Zelenskiy.

The oligarch, who lives in self-imposed exile, faces numerous investigations in Ukraine into his business dealings.

But Mr Zelenskiy has insisted he is "no puppet" of Mr Kolomoisky.

Mr Poroshenko, a chocolate magnate and one of Ukraine's wealthiest people, was elected in a snap vote after former pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych was toppled in the February 2014 Maidan Revolution, which was followed by Russia's annexation of Crimea and a Russian-backed insurgency in the east.

The next president will inherit a deadlocked conflict between Ukrainian troops and the eastern separatists, while Ukraine strives to fulfil EU requirements for closer economic ties.

The EU says that about 12% of Ukraine's 44 million people are disenfranchised, largely those who live in Russia and in Crimea, which Russia annexed in March 2014.

Mr Poroshenko aimed to appeal to conservative Ukrainians through his slogan "Army, Language, Faith".

He says his backing for the military has helped keep the separatists in check. He also negotiated an Association Agreement with the EU, including visa-free travel for Ukrainians. During his tenure the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has become independent of Russian control.

However his campaign has been dogged by corruption allegations, including a scandal over defence procurement which erupted last month.

Yulia Tymoshenko served as prime minister and ran for president in 2010 and 2014. She played a leading role in the 2004 Orange Revolution, Ukraine's first big push to ally itself with the EU.

Ukraine has been in a civil war since the Russian tampering in Crimea started, and it's pretty clear that Poroshenko isn't the solution. At the same time, the election of a tv comedian to this political rank smells a lot like Trump going from reality tv to the white house, and its worrisome because a political neophyte vs Putin is basicly a toothpick vs a tank. Zelensky also comes in with the worst possible support from a dodgy west that 3 years ago would have been his strongest ally and strength against Russia's expansionism.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
I get how it could spell trouble, but if status quo isn't working either, why continue to elect politicians? Their 'experience' is obviously not getting the results people want. Elect a dog with a dunce cap for all I care if you think it will get you better results. At least you tried something different. Americans elected FDR four times because of how well he sold the changing horses midstream metaphor on both the Great Depression and World War 2.0

Ukraine is pretty fucked anyway.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
I get how it could spell trouble, but if status quo isn't working either, why continue to elect politicians? Their 'experience' is obviously not getting the results people want. Elect a dog with a dunce cap for all I care if you think it will get you better results. At least you tried something different. Americans elected FDR four times because of how well he sold the changing horses midstream metaphor on both the Great Depression and World War 2.0

Ukraine is pretty fucked anyway.

I see it as the one real democracy to emerge from the former Soviet Union, and this win for Zelenskiy is a sign that the system is working. I don’t know if Ukraine is fucked, but they aren’t in a good place because Russia is funding their separatists. The next president has to be willing to speak with both sides of Ukraine and bring the war to an end.
 

SpamYouToDeath

I asked for a, Custom Rank and, Learned My Lesson.
15 Year Member
I get how it could spell trouble, but if status quo isn't working either, why continue to elect politicians? Their 'experience' is obviously not getting the results people want. Elect a dog with a dunce cap for all I care if you think it will get you better results. At least you tried something different. Americans elected FDR four times because of how well he sold the changing horses midstream metaphor on both the Great Depression and World War 2.0

Ukraine is pretty fucked anyway.

This argument depends on the relative scale of "isn't working" and "something different". Perhaps Poroshenko was actually doing a really good job, and was just dealt a bad hand (i.e. being invaded by Russia while NATO twiddles their thumbs). Or maybe he was about average, or maybe doing a bad job. What gives you confidence that a comedian would be better simply by virtue of being different?
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
This argument depends on the relative scale of "isn't working" and "something different". Perhaps Poroshenko was actually doing a really good job, and was just dealt a bad hand (i.e. being invaded by Russia while NATO twiddles their thumbs). Or maybe he was about average, or maybe doing a bad job. What gives you confidence that a comedian would be better simply by virtue of being different?

I think there's an accepted narrative that politicians are scum, self serving, corrupt. This is expressed both implicitly and explicitly in a lot of the media that we get, world wide. So the political outsider will bring a lot of appeal to the everyman, earned or not.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
This argument depends on the relative scale of "isn't working" and "something different". Perhaps Poroshenko was actually doing a really good job, and was just dealt a bad hand (i.e. being invaded by Russia while NATO twiddles their thumbs). Or maybe he was about average, or maybe doing a bad job. What gives you confidence that a comedian would be better simply by virtue of being different?

I don't have any confidence that this guy will be any better than the other guy, mostly because I'm not Ukranian and quite honestly, don't know enough about either man to make that judgement. I would however say, that I would be careful to reduce him to 'comedian'. Is he running on a platform of comedy or is he running a political campaign while coming from a career in comedy? Reagan was derided as an actor and regardless of your feelings on his politics, he was successful as President, enough so to be elected to 3 terms and still remembered positively by the republican base about 30 years later.

I think there's an accepted narrative that politicians are scum, self serving, corrupt. This is expressed both implicitly and explicitly in a lot of the media that we get, world wide. So the political outsider will bring a lot of appeal to the everyman, earned or not.

Similarly, there is a narrative (one that usually comes from the political class of course) that 'outsider' candidates or those with no political experience are dangerous, especially on an international stage/foreign policy. I would reject that, a working system already has systems (often times enormous and possibly redundant systems in fact) in place that any modestly intelligent person can take advantage of for support or rely upon for advice.

If the job becomes something that anyone can do, that's a threat to those that hold current positions (and often times have held those positions for a generation).
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
I don't have any confidence that this guy will be any better than the other guy, mostly because I'm not Ukranian and quite honestly, don't know enough about either man to make that judgement. I would however say, that I would be careful to reduce him to 'comedian'. Is he running on a platform of comedy or is he running a political campaign while coming from a career in comedy? Reagan was derided as an actor and regardless of your feelings on his politics, he was successful as President, enough so to be elected to 3 terms and still remembered positively by the republican base about 30 years later.



Similarly, there is a narrative (one that usually comes from the political class of course) that 'outsider' candidates or those with no political experience are dangerous, especially on an international stage/foreign policy. I would reject that, a working system already has systems (often times enormous and possibly redundant systems in fact) in place that any modestly intelligent person can take advantage of for support or rely upon for advice.

If the job becomes something that anyone can do, that's a threat to those that hold current positions (and often times have held those positions for a generation).

I think the very idea of "dangerous" or "threat" is subjective. Moreover, the responsibilities of a president or prime minister shouldn't be codified, like our legal system has been, such that a layman cannot perform the duties with success. Politics, and in my opinion, even law, should be simplified enough for a reasonably educated person to self-serve. And to take it a step further, I think that technology has already reached a level that we can achieve this, but no one in power is interested. Our system, and most system in the world, is complicated and has a learning curve.

About Reagan, he didn't go from screen to the oval office. He was the governor of California. That's no small task in and of itself, as California is a complicated state, unlike, say, Arkansas. So for him to cut his teeth on California, he was primed for a larger role in governance, and I admit this even though I don't agree with his decisions or politics heading into the WH. A complete political neophyte, however, is not Reagan. So it does worry me a little when a reality show host or a comedian is elected to a seat of great power. But at the same time, to regurgitate the words of just about every Trump supporter, "give the guy a chance."
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Are we sure that being governor of California isn't actually more difficult than being president of the Ukraine? ;)
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Reagan three terms??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpg0UfpuUAs

Some footage from his good ol' days as Governor.

2 term President's VP getting elected is a 3rd term. It rarely happens.

Washington-Adams (VP selection was quite different, not sure if I should count this one)
Jackson-Van Buren
McKinley-T. Roosevelt (McKinley was killed shortly into his second term and Teddy served most of it and then got reelected himself, so this is a bit different too)
FDR-Truman (total of 5 terms total, Truman served most of the 4th and was reelected)

A couple recent notable attempts were Gore in 2000 and Nixon in 1960.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
2 term President's VP getting elected is a 3rd term. It rarely happens.

Washington-Adams (VP selection was quite different, not sure if I should count this one)
Jackson-Van Buren
McKinley-T. Roosevelt (McKinley was killed shortly into his second term and Teddy served most of it and then got reelected himself, so this is a bit different too)
FDR-Truman (total of 5 terms total, Truman served most of the 4th and was reelected)

A couple recent notable attempts were Gore in 2000 and Nixon in 1960.

FDR won 4 terms too, but died early in the 4th term. Amazing what a little despotism can do for an emerging power.
 

massimiliano

ネオジオ,
20 Year Member
..seen that, done that, look up "five star movement" in Italy, populist party led by a comedian (almost a cult leader eventually), got a huge 33% of votes initially (up to almost 50% more recently) ...the "disruptive" idea of putting in charge people without any political background, while leveraging the populist malcontent, basically produced nothing, except for a constant opposition that lead the country to total ungovernability.

Edit:
..and I left the country.
 
Last edited:

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
..seen that, done that, look up "five star movement" in Italy, populist party led by a comedian (almost a cult leader eventually), got a huge 33% of votes initially (up to almost 50% more recently) ...the "disruptive" idea of putting in charge people without any political background, while leveraging the populist malcontent, basically produced nothing, except for a constant opposition that lead the country to total ungovernability.

Edit:
..and I left the country.

Five Star Movement was one of the earliest successful populist coups from this era. Now we have Bolsonaro in Brazil too.

Did you know that Grillo's wife is originally from Iran? Fascinating.
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
I have met many Ukrainian women here and not a single one of them seems stable. I do not judge them for that, and I sincerely hope their country can get back on track (was it ever?). It's really sad the stories I've heard from them.
 
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