Mueller Report: So Where Are We Now?

M

Marek

Banned
Smoke you're better than this both sidesism stuff

Pelosi and Schumer are probably guilty of "it" as well?

Conspiring with a hostile foreign government to dissolve our democratic institutions? Yeah fucking right.

Pelosi may be sleazy about certain things, but she's npt even on the same planet as Trump.

I feel like your post is just what helps you sleep at night knowing that your kids are on track to be left with a world wide dystopian nightmare and irreversibly devastated global ecology.

Apathy on this subject makes people say some strange things, imo.
 
smokehouse

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
Poppy said:
Smoke you're better than this both sidesism stuff

Pelosi and Schumer are probably guilty of "it" as well?

Conspiring with a hostile foreign government to dissolve our democratic institutions? Yeah fucking right.

Pelosi may be sleazy about certain things, but she's npt even on the same planet as Trump.

I feel like your post is just what helps you sleep at night knowing that your kids are on track to be left with a world wide dystopian nightmare and irreversibly devastated global ecology.

Apathy on this subject makes people say some strange things, imo.
Click to expand...

I typed up a rather angry response...I've thought better of it.

I'll say this, I do not feel there are sides of national politics, they are differing arms of the same body. I feel the entire purpose of "parties" is to force people into one camp or the other. If someone is busy hating the other side, they often won't look critically at their own perceived side.

The entire body of those in power want us to fight with each other, if we're busy arguing amongst ourselves, we can never unify and address the real issues at hand.

Being a "centrist" has been vilified as of late, as if you don't choose a "side" you're a fool.

I fully believe that no one that is in high level national politics give a good shit about any of us. To them, we're good for one thing and that's keeping them voted into position.
 
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evil wasabi

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
smokehouse said:
My comment concerning innocence really isn't addressing morality on an outside-of-the-legal-system scale. That kind of innocence is subjective.

I'm more talking about political ties, professional ties, the people behind the people behind the people that help you get to a high level of elected official. The people way behind sub-sub groups titled "Americans for justice" or "Citizens for a better tomorrow" (just made those up, BTW, any ties to something real is unintentional), or some other pop-up, heavily funded political group with yet another non-descriptive name. Groups that support politicians via low level campaigns, via contributions, or digging into political opponents in attempts to sway public opinion under the guise of everyday people presenting the evidence. Groups that come and go like water when they're found to be shill group for another group led by the super wealthy or massive companies.

This shit is all dirty pool, I feel it is being deluded to believe otherwise. This is all collusion, it's all the elite powers of this world making us the voters think that this politician is evil, or this one is good through people paid off to pose as down to earth citizens.

Is Trump guilty of it? I'm sure he is. Is Pelosi and Schumer guilty of the same shit via different means? I'd be willing to that's a solid yes as well.

Again, back to the atomic bomb thing...gotta be careful swinging a sword around that is that sharp, you might accidentally slice of your partner's head in the process.

Like you said, 2020 is almost here...they have bigger things to do now. They've accomplished what they wanted to do, which is make a bunch of noise. Time to move on.
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Pelosi and Schumer are more politically compromised than morally. They aren't the beneficiaries of election rigging, violating the emoluments clause, conducting insider trading violations via federal reserve rate hikes; but Trump is. So be aware that you're making a very false equivalence here.

In many instances we have an illusion of choice. You can vote Dem, but your vote is meaningless in that gerrymandered district. You can vote Republican, but your vote won't matter in your heavily liberal district. I would love to see an election where I really feel I am making a choice between two good options. In the end of the elections so far, I do have a choice, the choice to vote at all, and I do it, mostly to keep out the crazies.

If people don't like Pelosi and Schumer, they can vote them out. Upstarts like AOC, Tlaib, and Ilhan have proven that the democratic process still works. With Hillary it was obvious she owed a lot of people promises, and that was a turn off. When you vote, you can try to focus on which candidate is going to automatically be obligated to work against your interests. It's typically the better funded campaign. If you let someone who was installed as president continue to destroy the foundation of this democratic republic, we may soon find ourselves a lot like China, or Russia, where you don't have a choice at all.
 
fake

fake

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
15 Year Member
You're way off, Smokehouse. You're right that no one is perfect, or even close to it. But Trump and his buddies are so ridiculously slimy it's ridiculous to compare.
 
smokehouse

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
I get what you guys are saying, but I still strongly feel that if you dug into most top level politicians in the way Trump has received, you'd unearth plenty.

To say "Oh...but he's so much worse than..."

I don't buy it. Taking one small example, what would have turned up if the Clinton Foundation had been investigated to completion? I'll say this, had Hillary won in 2016, we would have spent the last few years hearing Republicans claim dirty dealings just like the Dems are doing now.

That's just one example...there's many organizations like that, supporting many elected officials, all churning behind the scenes.

To say "Trump is the worst"? Eh...that's literally impossible to judge unless everyone is placed under the same microscope to the same level.

I know most here don't like Trump, and I respect that, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy either. To claim he's the worst of the worst, though? Nah...


*EDIT*

This never ending digging is going to continue no matter who is in the WH...unless that person is socially-untouchable for some reason or another...
 
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evil wasabi

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
smokehouse said:
I get what you guys are saying, but I still strongly feel that if you dug into most top level politicians in the way Trump has received, you'd unearth plenty.

To say "Oh...but he's so much worse than..."

I don't buy it. Taking one small example, what would have turned up if the Clinton Foundation had been investigated to completion? I'll say this, had Hillary won in 2016, we would have spent the last few years hearing Republicans claim dirty dealings just like the Dems are doing now.

That's just one example...there's many organizations like that, supporting many elected officials, all churning behind the scenes.

To say "Trump is the worst"? Eh...that's literally impossible to judge unless everyone is placed under the same microscope to the same level.

I know most here don't like Trump, and I respect that, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy either. To claim he's the worst of the worst, though? Nah...


*EDIT*

This never ending digging is going to continue no matter who is in the WH...unless that person is socially-untouchable for some reason or another...
Click to expand...

Have you looked into The Clinton Foundation?

I hear stuff from old people who claim to listen to "the real news" about how The Clinton Foundation is a scam, but they can't explain the tax filings from the Clintons and the execs of the foundation, or how it's bad for a billionaire like the Saudi prince to make a donation to a fund that provides medical help to impoverished nations, rather than gaining access to the president through arms deals. You think you'll dig up worse than what Trump parades around, with his hand on his daughters crack, holding her like an old white man would hold a small Thai child prostitute?

Come on.
 
SML

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
Meanwhile this administration has announced its intent to resist every request from house oversight.

Again, it seems to be doing literally everything it can to compel impeachment hearings.

Is it on purpose? Are they hoping for a backlash to Congress doing its duty, or refusing to?

I think it's too optimistic to see this administration as operating according to a plan. I think we just have dumb people being rewarded by dumb people. Dummies all the way down.
 
SML

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
And there's no way to defend Trump without resorting to truisms and gish gallops. That's been the case for the last three years, though.
 
SML

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
Evil Wasabi said:
You think you'll dig up worse than what Trump parades around, with his hand on his daughters crack, holding her like an old white man would hold a small Thai child prostitute?

Come on.
Click to expand...

The entire point of the #Pizzagate and #Qanon conspiracies is to provide the president with adversaries who are worse than him, no matter how bad he is.

In case you haven't followed it and don't know how bad Trump's enemies need to be in order for him to clear the bar, Qanon posits a global conspiracy of pedophiles who rape and torture children to death in order to harvest adrenochrome from their blood, which they then consume to stay healthy and young.

John MccCain and George HW Bush and *Ruth Bader Ginsburg are dead now because the president interrupted their supply. Or maybe they were executed. Q's messages require decoding so they can mean whatever they need to mean after the fact.

*You might think RBG is still alive but that just shows how easy it is for the Cabal to trick you with a mere clone.
 
M

Marek

Banned
The Clinton Foundation

WHO

GIVES

A

FUCK

Would that wretched old bitch be menacing North Korea? No.

Would she be inciting violence against the free press? No.

Would she imply a myriad of conspiracy theories with no evidence? No.

Would she advocate the essential dismemberment of the EU, United Nations, and NATO? No.



Fuck you and your both sides "Well what about her emails/foundation?!?!" Fox News Goebbles shit.


If you seriously cant see the difference between Trump and your average Washington crook then you're willfully ignorant at best.
 
SpamYouToDeath

SpamYouToDeath

I asked for a, Custom Rank and, Learned My Lesson.
15 Year Member
smokehouse said:
I get what you guys are saying, but I still strongly feel that if you dug into most top level politicians in the way Trump has received, you'd unearth plenty.

To say "Oh...but he's so much worse than..."

I don't buy it. Taking one small example, what would have turned up if the Clinton Foundation had been investigated to completion? I'll say this, had Hillary won in 2016, we would have spent the last few years hearing Republicans claim dirty dealings just like the Dems are doing now.
Click to expand...

Clinton would have read the goddamn daily briefings. So would Johnson or Stein. None of them would have suggested that we murder asylees. None would have ordered their chief of staff to hand out TS clearances like candy.

We don't usually get a great suite of candidates to choose from, but there's always better and worse among them. When you don't vote for better, don't complain about it getting worse.
 
LoneSage

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
I think smoke is the kind of person who doesn't really give a shit who's in charge as long as their life isn't affected.
 
smokehouse

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
LoneSage said:
I think smoke is the kind of person who doesn't really give a shit who's in charge as long as their life isn't affected.
Click to expand...

Give or take, yes. I know it sounds callused and hard, but it is the truth.

There are too many individual problems on this planet, how (or why) should I sit here and worry about all of them? What can I possibly do about a vast majority of them?

I deal with what I can deal with, problems that are within my reach to change. Bitching about national and global politics when you are on the ground floor is like bitching about solar flares or hurricanes.

Those issues are so large that it takes the efforts of millions us us, all in unity to change it...and the millions are too busy bitching amongst themselves about genitals, skin color, what college they went to, where they live, what country they're from, what kind of fucking motorcycle they drive, what branch of the "service" they were in......

The second a group large and powerful enough comes along that can really change things, I'll take action. Until then? Bitching about who's in the White House is like going outside and bitching at a tornado while it's ripping apart your neighborhood.
 
smokehouse

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
LoneSage said:
Hypothetically, what would it take for you to do that?
Click to expand...

Hypothetically?

I'm not 100% sure. A mass social uprising I guess.

Here's how I see it, there's only two sides here...us and them. "US" being all of us people that live on this planet (99%). "THEM" being the very few people that are in charge of this planet (1%), these people:

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/14/worlds-richest-wealth-credit-suisse

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/16/the...-amount-of-money-as-half-the-world-oxfam.html

The 1% of the earth's population that have over 50% of the money and nearly control everything in our lives...

There's no "left" or "right"....this is a joke. These are politicians that legally take money from the high wealthy and powerful to do their bidding. These politicians do not answer to us and the only reason they even pretend to give a good shit is so we'll be dumb enough to vote for them. Politicians that do give a shit are either bat-shit crazy, or are run out of dodge quickly.

This 1% doesn't care about us, they don't care about the environment, they do not care about social reform, they want us to all keep spinning the wheel so they can continue to stay in power.

I see it this way; I give my two children two predetermined choices for dinner, left hand or right. They then proceed to fight over it. This is us at the moment...left and right, so called conservative and liberals...both fighting over predetermined "choices". Trump, Clinton, Obama, McCain, Bush, Romney, Kerry....I could go on and on but the point is it doesn't matter. Tell me how our lives are all so much better from any of these people...ANY of them. In the end its the illusion of choice in a predetermined manner. Those in power win either way, it just sways a bit depending on who wins. For us? We lose...and have been losing for longer than any of us here have been alive. Don't believe me? Just look at the data.

The masses, the group so large that it could take over the world if it wanted to, are too busy fighting over petty shit to do anything about it. Meanwhile, the 1% is very organized and driven and we're all living in the fruits of their labor. Poverty, inequality, injustice, starvation, the dumbing down of the masses, homelessness, fruitless wars over resources, the destruction of our environment, this is what we're getting.

In our own back yard, US children go to bed hungry, are drinking water full of lead, and are lucky to attend underfunded, crumbling schools...meanwhile, most are arguing about a politicians genitals, or skin color, or what church they attend, or something they put on twitter. This was true under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. When will people realize that NO US president will change any of this?

This is what drives me to worry about myself, it's not because I don't give a shit, its because an overwhelming amount of my fellow 99% don't give a good fuck and are too busy fighting themselves needlessly. People like me are villainized for "not doing something"...but I'd respond with what in the fuck can I do that I already don't? You all do not know me well enough to know what my day to day is like, yet you'll type cast me as an indifferent fuck because I refuse to support national politics...
 
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LoneSage

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
I kinda want to see how smoke would like it in China. I think he'd like it better than America tbh.
 
smokehouse

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
LoneSage said:
I kinda want to see how smoke would like it in China. I think he'd like it better than America tbh.
Click to expand...

I'd love to travel, I really want to see the world and how people really live in other places. I don't trust the media, I don't believe they always paint a realistic picture of everyday life anywhere on this planet.

I hope that one day I will be able to.
 
M

Marek

Banned
smokehouse said:
Hypothetically?

I'm not 100% sure. A mass social uprising I guess.

Here's how I see it, there's only two sides here...us and them. "US" being all of us people that live on this planet (99%). "THEM" being the very few people that are in charge of this planet (1%), these people:

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/14/worlds-richest-wealth-credit-suisse

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/16/the...-amount-of-money-as-half-the-world-oxfam.html

The 1% of the earth's population that have over 50% of the money and nearly control everything in our lives...

There's no "left" or "right"....this is a joke. These are politicians that legally take money from the high wealthy and powerful to do their bidding. These politicians do not answer to us and the only reason they even pretend to give a good shit is so we'll be dumb enough to vote for them. Politicians that do give a shit are either bat-shit crazy, or are run out of dodge quickly.

This 1% doesn't care about us, they don't care about the environment, they do not care about social reform, they want us to all keep spinning the wheel so they can continue to stay in power.

I see it this way; I give my two children two predetermined choices for dinner, left hand or right. They then proceed to fight over it. This is us at the moment...left and right, so called conservative and liberals...both fighting over predetermined "choices". Trump, Clinton, Obama, McCain, Bush, Romney, Kerry....I could go on and on but the point is it doesn't matter. Tell me how our lives are all so much better from any of these people...ANY of them. In the end its the illusion of choice in a predetermined manner. Those in power win either way, it just sways a bit depending on who wins. For us? We lose...and have been losing for longer than any of us here have been alive. Don't believe me? Just look at the data.

The masses, the group so large that it could take over the world if it wanted to, are too busy fighting over petty shit to do anything about it. Meanwhile, the 1% is very organized and driven and we're all living in the fruits of their labor. Poverty, inequality, injustice, starvation, the dumbing down of the masses, homelessness, fruitless wars over resources, the destruction of our environment, this is what we're getting.

In our own back yard, US children go to bed hungry, are drinking water full of lead, and are lucky to attend underfunded, crumbling schools...meanwhile, most are arguing about a politicians genitals, or skin color, or what church they attend, or something they put on twitter. This was true under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. When will people realize that NO US president will change any of this?

This is what drives me to worry about myself, it's not because I don't give a shit, its because an overwhelming amount of my fellow 99% don't give a good fuck and are too busy fighting themselves needlessly. People like me are villainized for "not doing something"...but I'd respond with what in the fuck can I do that I already don't? You all do not know me well enough to know what my day to day is like, yet you'll type cast me as an indifferent fuck because I refuse to support national politics...
Click to expand...

Trump was not 'predetermined', you idiot.
 
M

Marek

Banned
Evil Wasabi said:
If you never do your own due diligence on its tax filings or those of its execs, then the foundation can be as criminal as conservative pundits want you to believe.
Click to expand...

Of course, but with people like smokehouse it's always this "But think of all the thing we might find if we looked?!" Chock full of mights, maybes, and what ifs.

It's the same as the "omg her emails" people. I have a friend who genuinely believes that the missing piece of the Uranium One puzzle is in her emails, just in the ones we still haven't seen. Not kidding.
 
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StevenK

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
10 Year Member
I can't wrap my head around people who repeat the mantra 'why bother voting, nothing ever changes'. I can barely comprehend how much my country has changed in terms of wealth, equality and opportunity in even my relatively short life, and I only really remember the last 25 years.

That's 25 years of stable (erm, forget the last year perhaps...), moderate governance. Compare that to the ups and downs of Russia, the boom of China, Latin America's flaky growth. All of these situations are driven by government policy in these countries.

All politicians, all policies, all outcomes certainly aren't the same, they make a huge difference.
 
M

Marek

Banned
StevenK said:
I can't wrap my head around people who repeat the mantra 'why bother voting, nothing ever changes'. I can barely comprehend how much my country has changed in terms of wealth, equality and opportunity in even my relatively short life, and I only really remember the last 25 years.

That's 25 years of stable (erm, forget the last year perhaps...), moderate governance. Compare that to the ups and downs of Russia, the boom of China, Latin America's flaky growth. All of these situations are driven by government policy in these countries.

All politicians, all policies, all outcomes certainly aren't the same, they make a huge difference.
Click to expand...


No but its predetermined and we cant do anything. Like Brexit and Trump, totally predetermined. Its not like Russia engaged in unprecedented psyops and blatant criminal interference.

They were predetermined outcomes. Everything is the same. We have no choices because its this great big illuminati conspiracy that we can in no way influence or dissipate.

:thevt:
 
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