Halo: Master Chief Collection with Reach Coming to Steam and Windows 10

Yoshi

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Take the Switch for example, it's the weakest of all the contemporary gaming systems, yet it's extremely popular partly because it offers features that a lot of people desire (portability and hassle-free local multiplayer).
Agreed, other than that not really being subjective. Now tell me what advantage the PS4 or Xbox One has that has anything to do with gaming.
 
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Poison Sama

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Agreed, other than that not really being subjective.

It most definitely would be subjective for someone who doesn't really care about such features; a Switch would be of little value to someone who doesn't play games on the go and/or doesn't have any regular co-op partners.

Now tell me what advantage the PS4 or Xbox One has that has anything to do with gaming.

You mean other than offering a relatively quick and hassle-free (and mostly cheater/hacker free) way to enjoy the majority of the high-budget games produced today? Ok, here's one example:

So let's say that a person is a fan of online FPS/TPS games but also finds a controller more comfortable to use than a keyboard+mouse. Sure, they could hook up a controller to a PC and play that way, but then this presents a new issue: play at a disadvantage relative to most of the other players, or use an input method that they don't really like. In either case, that player's gaming experience is going to be negatively affected in some way. However, by instead choosing to play those games on a console, that player can now enjoy their preferred input method on a far more leveled playing field.
 

Yoshi

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It most definitely would be subjective for someone who doesn't really care about such features; a Switch would be of little value to someone who doesn't play games on the go and/or doesn't have any regular co-op partners.
Those are objective advantages, though some people do not value them. Similarly, the lack of power is an objective disadvantage, though some people either aren’t bothered by it or feel the advantages outweigh it.

You mean other than offering a relatively quick and hassle-free (and mostly cheater/hacker free) way to enjoy the majority of the high-budget games produced today?
Not detecting any significant differentiatuon here. My consoles seem to require system updates more often than Windows for example, or they are at least more noticeable.

Ok, here's one example:

So let's say that a person is a fan of online FPS/TPS games but also finds a controller more comfortable to use than a keyboard+mouse. Sure, they could hook up a controller to a PC and play that way, but then this presents a new issue: play at a disadvantage relative to most of the other players, or use an input method that they don't really like. In either case, that player's gaming experience is going to be negatively affected in some way. However, by instead choosing to play those games on a console, that player can now enjoy their preferred input method on a far more leveled playing field.
That’s certainly a preference, but lack of controller options is hardly an objective advantage. Interestingly enough, if you change the genre to racing games, there are all kinds of wheels supported on console with which a controller is unlikely to compete.
 
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greedostick

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Settling also has nothing to do with it. Not everyone is going to have the same preferences or priorities, so what constitutes an "optimal" system is ultimately subjective. Take the Switch for example, it's the weakest of all the contemporary gaming systems, yet it's extremely popular partly because it offers features that a lot of people desire (portability and hassle-free local multiplayer).

I think it popular because Nintendo Fanboys, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, and Smash.

I don't think there's much more thought that goes into it other than fanboyism, and when one of the mentioned titles launches.
 

Yoshi

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I think it popular because Nintendo Fanboys, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, and Smash.

I don't think there's much more thought that goes into it other than fanboyism, and when one of the mentioned titles launches.
I can anecdotally dispute that, because, despite my username, I am about the furthest thing from a Nintendo fanboy.

I think Zelda as a series is wildly overrated, though Breath of the Wild is one of the better entries, probably because it doesn't rally play like a Zelda game. I also was pretty disappointed with Odyssey. It didn't hook me past just beating it, and I feel like Mario + Rabbids is far and away the better Mario game on the platform. I wouldn't touch Smash unless they paid me to play it, and I've never played a Pokemon game.

I was excited for the Switch because it makes a nice third wheel for my PC and arcade stuff, mostly because of the portability. Its lineup has been relatively disappointing in the expected ways but has had some really nice surprises, like the Johnny Turbo ports. I have certainly gotten significantly more use out of it than my PS4, and I only own an Xbox One because of the 4K Blu-Ray, streaming (I chose it at $200 over a $150 Apple TV upgrade), and backward compatibility.
 

SpamYouToDeath

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Agreed, other than that not really being subjective. Now tell me what advantage the PS4 or Xbox One has that has anything to do with gaming.

I can buy a disc and own it. I don't need an Internet connection to play; as long as my local hardware works, it will run.
 

Yoshi

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I can buy a disc and own it. I don't need an Internet connection to play; as long as my local hardware works, it will run.
Those days are rapidly coming to an end, but it's certainly true for at least this generation.

That's the way GOG works as well though, other than obviously the disc part.

What is starting to worry me is that the consoles may skip digital-only and go right from physical to streaming-only. That and Google being involved in any capacity.
 
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Poison Sama

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Those are objective advantages, though some people do not value them. Similarly, the lack of power is an objective disadvantage, though some people either aren’t bothered by it or feel the advantages outweigh it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been saying. The features a certain system has is the objective part, but whether someone wants those features is the subjective part.

Not detecting any significant differentiatuon here. My consoles seem to require system updates more often than Windows for example, or they are at least more noticeable.

Yes, it's true that consoles aren't as straight-forward as they used to be, but I still think they're overall less complex that a PC (for better or worse). As for system/game updates, they don't bother me personally, since I have my consoles set to auto-update everything while they're in sleep mode.

That’s certainly a preference, but lack of controller options is hardly an objective advantage. Interestingly enough, if you change the genre to racing games, there are all kinds of wheels supported on console with which a controller is unlikely to compete.

I was speaking purely from a preference standpoint. As for racing games, that's not a genre I'm all that passionate about, so I can't really speak about how much of an advantage there is in using a wheel over a controller. I could see wheel users being less common due to price though, since it looks like a decent wheel costs about twice as much as a controller. Similarly, keyboard+mouse adapters exists for the current consoles, but they too are less commonly used due to their price.
 

Yoshi

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I was speaking purely from a preference standpoint. As for racing games, that's not a genre I'm all that passionate about, so I can't really speak about how much of an advantage there is in using a wheel over a controller. I could see wheel users being less common due to price though, since it looks like a decent wheel costs about twice as much as a controller. Similarly, keyboard+mouse adapters exists for the current consoles, but they too are less commonly used due to their price.
The irony just dawned on me that we both ignored fighting games and the related sticks in favor of other genres on neo-geo.com.
 

Poison Sama

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The irony just dawned on me that we both ignored fighting games and the related sticks in favor of other genres on neo-geo.com.

From my experience, the skill gap between a good controller and an arcade stick doesn't feel nearly as wide as the one between controllers and the keyboard+mouse combo. I think that mostly comes down to individual games and how their movement mechanics and/or combo systems feel.
 

Tripredacus

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I would not say that it is fair to compare a controller to a keyboard. They are pretty much the same. If there was a way to hold a controller comfortably, and without slipping, it would be better to use that instead of a keyboard. But the keyboard is just there and has lots of buttons on it. The real gap you are referring to is comparing directional control to the mouse, where the mouse sensitivity and accuracy cannot be defeated by a controller.

There are some go-betweens. There is a product called XIM that lets you use a mouse and keyboard on a modern console. The drawback to it is that there is an input sensitivity penalty. Using a mouse on a XIM will not give you the same controls as on PC, as the console still has a speed limit of the controller that it is emulating.

So yes, then it still comes down to not only the games themselves, but how people play. I like to play games fast, and as such I can't use a controller for any game with a Z axis, nor could I use a XIM. All this means is that there are a bunch of games on console that I would like to play, but cannot, simply due to how the controllers work.
 
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