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Thread: Why is Kizuna Encounter (European version) so rare?

  1. #176
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    I guess ill go back and give kizuna another shot, as i recall some of the backgrounds in the game looking very nice, but a few looking rushed as hell. The number of different weapon and multiplane attacks in savage reign coupled with really nicely aninated backgrounds made the game stand out as unique upon first impressions for me.
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  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by max 330 mega View Post
    I guess ill go back and give kizuna another shot, as i recall some of the backgrounds in the game looking very nice, but a few looking rushed as hell. The number of different weapon and multiplane attacks in savage reign coupled with really nicely aninated backgrounds made the game stand out as unique upon first impressions for me.
    I mean, I can understand a certain appeal with Savage Reign, but to call that game "crazy" and Kizuna "average" I think is just a result of being unfamiliar with how the latter handles.

    I also don't see anything "rushed" in the backgrounds. Then again, I don't think I've ever described a background as "rushed" in any game. I couldn't tell you how long it should take to make anything in a game.



    I consider this crazy by comparison ^
    Last edited by andsuchisdeath; 08-30-2020 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #178
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    Thats some mvc tier juggling for sure!
    Also im subscribed to your channel as of like a week ago, lol.
    I think savage reign is really appealing to me in this given moment due to being on kind of a world heroes kick. Its another not so conventional fighter, so i was stoked upon discovering it and the weird stuff they tried with it.
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  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by krautcroissant View Post
    Found this a few years ago while clearing my granddad's house in Germany.
    Old video game magazine that my brother and I used to occasionally get bought by the big man.
    Took a Photo of this ad.... back in German Mark times. Check out the Kizouna.
    Now if only I had known back then, little me would have put some pressure on Opa to drive down there and lend me 600 Marks to be paid back 20 years later.

    Attachment 57628
    While we all know that the store location in Stuttgart was where multiple people saw and/or purchased the English Kizuna Encounter game, itís important to remember that back then, the ads placed in the gaming magazines were usually done a month or two in advance, as magazines had much longer lead times for publication. And these ads are notorious for advertising products that were either massively delayed, severely altered, completely canceled, or just flat out vapor ware. In addition, that particular ad also lists Pulstar right next to Ultimate Eleven and Kizuna Encounter, which was a Japan only release, as well as Samurai RPG and Ironclad (CD games) that were also Japan only releases. So in no way, shape, or form does the ad imply that the Kizuna game they are selling is the English version.
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  5. #180
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    I think the Aero Fighters debacle here showed that the Euro Kizuna Encounter copies were probably fakes. It's just that back then people weren't as clued up as now. Has anyone who 'owns' one ever actually taken HQ photos of the game and pcbs and shown them? If not then definitely a fake

    Forget people saying they saw it - people see bigfoot every week and there's never any photos of that either. People could have seen import copies of Kizuna in Euro shops and their mind just makes them think now that they saw the Euro version.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missile View Post
    Has anyone who 'owns' one ever actually taken HQ photos of the game and pcbs and shown them? If not then definitely a fake
    The PCBs wouldn't be an indicator in this instance.

  7. #182
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    The member here Wolf was, or is an owner of both kizuna and U11 US copies. He actually logged in a month or so ago and posted something for the first time in a while.
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  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by max 330 mega View Post
    The member here Wolf was, or is an owner of both kizuna and U11 US copies. He actually logged in a month or so ago and posted something for the first time in a while.
    Oh also, thanks.

    And yeah, I can see the tap light/hold heavy Savage Reign control scheme satisfying a World Heroes kick.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by andsuchisdeath View Post
    The PCBs wouldn't be an indicator in this instance.
    Yes you are right. So the only difference would be a grey-background front cover, no dog tag and different sticker??

    A lot of Euro AES games - were orginally Japanese carts with a Euro-label stuck on top (double labelled). Could be the same for Kizuna too.

    This Wolf guy needs to show pics. I'm sure I've seen it on his shelf pics or someone's shelf pics - but what can you tell from a far-away pic?

  10. #185
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    I never saw a copy of English Kizuna Encounter (KE) or Ultimate 11 (U11) with a Japanese sticker on it. All the Japanese version of these games do not show any kind of wearing. I don’t think you have this for these two games.
    There is no evidence, no testimony and no information regarding the recall of them. For a company it’s costly and not interesting for few copies. Just rumors, bullish ,and talks. We were in 1996 and the information era wasn’t the same like today.

    These English version were released “on demand”, technically not supposed to be on the market. Just here to perform the supply for customers. Let’s say a retailer want x6 pack of JAP KE and x6 pack of JAP U11 (with accessory x6 pack Sapporo ). He can also ask to send 1 English copy of each in a “we shall see if there is any demand. Roll out the dice man !”

    I also have a friend who was a video game retailer in the 90s and explained to me this kind of business practice was pretty common for many games when a new system landed in the market. “Here comes a new challenger”, let’s make some place like an outsider, the rest later.
    When you run a store, you have to think about three metrics:
    1/ Sales per square foot (local store) or per linear foot of shelf space (Walmart).
    2/ Sales by category (Neo Geo, PlayStation, Nintendo...)
    3/ Inventory turnover. Unsold games is very costly for a retailer.

    Therefore, to have one english copy of each game is not the right decision in term of rentability.
    Last edited by Alphabet; 11-29-2020 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Edited

  11. #186
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    So, still in 1996, why an english AES copy of Samurai Shodown IV is much more common than English KE and U11 ?

    Simply because Samurai Spirits license is popular and one of the main stream of income of SNK through his MVS system. Thatís where the company made the most money during that time. More profitable than Super Sidekicks licence. I should have the sales info in a old hard disk.

    Also, just check/compare and you can infer that point: in 2020, there is still ďlessĒ Sidekicks 1,2,3 AES JAP/US than Samurai 1,2,3 AES JAP/US in the market. It has always been like that.
    Furthermore, less U11 JAP and a few copies of US.

    Volume x Price = Value. Samurai Spirits license was more profitable.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphabet View Post
    I never saw a copy of English Kizuna Encounter (KE) or Ultimate 11 (U11) with a Japanese sticker on it. All the Japanese version of these games do not show any kind of wearing. I don’t think you have this for these two games.
    There is no evidence, no testimony and no information regarding the recall of them. For a company it’s costly and not interesting for few copies. Just rumors, bullish ,and talks. We were in 1996 and the information era wasn’t the same like today.

    These English version were released “on demand”, technically not supposed to be on the market. Just here to perform the supply for customers. Let’s say a retailer want x6 pack of JAP KE and x6 pack of JAP U11 (with accessory x6 pack Sapporo ). He can also ask to send 1 English copy of each in a “we shall see if there is any demand. Roll out the dice man !”

    I also have a friend who was a video game retailer in the 90s and explained to me this kind of business practice was pretty common for many games when a new system landed in the market. “Here comes a new challenger”, let’s make some place like an outsider, the rest later.
    When you run a store, you have to think about three metrics:
    1/ Sales per square foot (local store) or per linear foot of shelf space (Walmart).
    2/ Sales by category (Neo Geo, PlayStation, Nintendo...)
    3/ Inventory turnover. Unsold games is very costly for a retailer.

    Therefore, to have one english copy of each game is not the right decision in term of rentability.
    Key information to have from SNK retailers circa 1996 is whether SNK offered to buy back or exchange unsold stock. I can envision a retailer selling out of SSIV before selling even a single KE. Perhaps SNK offered to trade, took the unsold stock back, and then swapped the unsold Euro/US inserts, stickers and manuals for JPN B-stock versions.

  13. #188
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    I just trust in what I see and saw a JAP version of Samurai 1 with a US label on it. This one and another game. I never saw that for KOF for example.

    Itís impossible to have the sales agreement and you donít need them. I tell you why ?:
    You have a manufacturer SNK and these three main retailers franchises in Europe: Telegames (UK), Espace 3 (France), Maro (Germany). When you have unsold games, itís expensive for both parties to take the unsold stock and/or replace it. Each want to minimize the risk. For the Marketing and image itís terrible to have unsold old stock. Thatís why you have agreements such as discount per quantity ordered, free promotional banner for a new games and so on...
    You can find buy back stock from small retailers or local store.
    Example: Moreoshop shop bought an unsold stock from Saudi Arabia in 2006.

    When you try to liquidate your old stock, you also cut the price and get the ď1998-2002 bargainĒ where you could find a Quiz Chibi Maruko Chan, Neo Turf Masters, Breakers, and other big games for $100. No one cares about the Neo Geo during that time.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphabet View Post
    I never saw a copy of English Kizuna Encounter (KE) or Ultimate 11 (U11) with a Japanese sticker on it.
    Did you see any English cart in a clamshell case with a Japanese sticker on it? I suppose this way of swapping regions ceased around '94/'95.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16-bit View Post
    Perhaps SNK offered to trade, took the unsold stock back, and then swapped the unsold Euro/US inserts, stickers and manuals for JPN B-stock versions.
    I wonder if there's any Kizuna with a japanese label over a western realease. That would be an interesting find if that really happened. Same goes to U11 for that matter.

  16. #191
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    Again there is no evidence and testimony on that point regarding the recall and the label swap of these games. You can also check the archives of the Internet, there is nothing.

    But consider also these:

    Internal factors.
    Unknown. What was decided inside the company within the Board of Directors in 1995/96 ? A former executive of SNK has the answer only.

    External factors.
    Economic, Technologic (CD-ROM), Legal, Environmental.

    Regarding the environmental factor we had:

    . In January 1995, a earthquake in
    Kobe. Osaka with his SNK Headquarters is geographically close and was affected.

    . In 1996, SNK was caught in fire in their building. Information unveiled from the former President HOSOYA on Twitter.

    So, when these two kind of financial damage happens to a company, it make sense to remain focus on your local market (Japan) and keep your current business position inside the Asian market (HK, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand mainly).
    Furthermore, the AES sales have already started to drop. When you have significant losses, you don’t try to invest by expanding your activity worldwide.

    These two factors are verified and could affect a low production run of games like Double Dragon (March 1995), Stakes Winner (October 1995), Neo Turf Masters (March 1996), Metal Slug (May 1996), Ninja Master’s (June 1996). Therefore, KE (November 1996) and U11 (December 1996) by sending the English AES version on demand to the retailers only.
    As Corporate and Business strategies this is highly possible.
    Last edited by Alphabet; 11-30-2020 at 08:00 PM.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphabet View Post
    Again there is no evidence and testimony on that point regarding the recall and the label swap of these games. You can also check the archives of the Internet, there is nothing.

    But consider also these:

    Internal factors.
    Unknown. What was decided inside the company within the Board of Directors in 1995/96 ? A former executive of SNK has the answer only.

    External factors.
    Economic, Technologic (CD-ROM), Legal, Environmental.

    Regarding the environmental factor we had:

    . In January 1995, a earthquake in
    Kobe. Osaka with his SNK Headquarters is geographically close and was affected.

    . In 1996, SNK was caught in fire in their building. Information unveiled from the former President HOSOYA on Twitter.

    So, when these two kind of financial damage happens to a company, it make sense to remain focus on your local market (Japan) and keep your current business position inside the Asian market (HK, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand mainly).
    Furthermore, the AES sales have already started to drop. When you have significant losses, you don’t try to invest by expanding your activity worldwide.

    These two factors are verified and could affect a low production run of games like Double Dragon (March 1995), Stakes Winner (October 1995), Neo Turf Masters (March 1996), Metal Slug (May 1996), Ninja Master’s (June 1996). Therefore, KE (November 1996) and U11 (December 1996) by sending the English AES version on demand to the retailers only.
    As Corporate and Business strategies this is highly possible.
    I appreciate your insight. I don't believe the repatriating unsold stock back to Japan argument anymore.

    At this point my hypothesis is that SNK had invested in English printings of carts and used files to print on demand. Hence, they printed whatever was ordered.

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