madman
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Let me guess, no matter how he responds you will tell him he doesn't understand the mechanics of every arcade game ever made on the level that you do.
Something I've learned playing Neo Geo games this week
- Thread starter edd_jedi
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Let me guess, no matter how he responds you will tell him he doesn't understand the mechanics of every arcade game ever made on the level that you do.
Arcade games need to be immediately playable. Their whole purpose is to get people to sped money as quickly as possible, and then get the next person on the machine. So arcade games generally do not have:
- long intros
- many levels/courses
- character development
- cut scenes
All of which are features of console games. Don't get me wrong I love the NG and arcade games in general, but they do not have the depth and longevity of console games like RPGs. Even the platform games on the NG have far fewer levels than games like Mario.
A good example is driving games. Most arcade racers only have three or four tracks. Now sure you could spend years shaving milliseconds off lap times on those three courses, but the majority of people will be bored of them after a few goes and move on to the next game.
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Well that's what I heard!
oliverclaude
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Now, to be able to do that, this course, i.e. this game has to have depth, wouldn't you agree?
As to your other arguments, they are well presented, but can be turned just as easy:
Long intros? I skipp them after a while anyway.
Many levels/courses? Depth defines quality rather than quantity.
Character development? Your own character develops during the time you spend mastering an arcade game.
Cut scenes? C'mon, as if arcade games wouldn't generally have them, too (see the KoF series, AoF series, Sengoku series etc.), but does having them equals having depth I wonder...
Whole purpose is to get people to sped money? Console games are also made to make money, so let's not allude ourselves. Sonic & Mario are immediately playable, too, but try to grasp Battle Garegga, right?
And the "longevity of console games like RPGs"? Well, think of it this way: Once you spent your 10 to 20 hours in an RPG, you won't have another play for 10 to 20 years -- you know the story, you know the ending, you know the plot twists. During this time, you'll throw away much more time on an arcade game, to which you can always come back because it's not about the story, it's not about the ending and because you make the plot twists yourself just by playing it.
madman
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I'm not even sure what the argument is here. There are great arcade games, many of which have stood the test of time, likewise for consoles. There are shitty console games that were dog shit on day one, likewise for arcade games.
The other thing to remember is nearly all Arcade games have random elements usually. In Donkey Kong it's the barrels. You can't predict exactly where they will be every time because it's a randomized pattern. However, some things like the springs are predictable. Pac-man it was the ghosts, you could sometimes learn to guide or how to play the ghosts based on your movements. You can however sometimes "control" which ladder the barrels fall down or learn different timing tricks. It's all about approach to the game. Some games let you learn a pattern and then over time you are rewarded by progressing aka Mega Man and most platformers. Most Arcade games teach you how to compensate for that randomized gameplay that might screw you over, but sometimes it will still just screw you over. Sometimes you will skate right on by the issue. IDK if NTM is more like a claw machine where it pays out only X amount of tries, or if there is just some minute variable you missed or need to learn to compensate for on specific courses.
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Exactly this I don't typically sit down and spend hours on the NG. It's low barrier of entry and I usually spend about an hour session of a random game and then some KOF or MS when friends are over for an hour or two.
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Absolutely
However, "edd jedi" expressed that arcade games are "throw away", due to what I think he's implying as a lack of depth (haha) in comparison to console games.
Oliverclaude couldn't have made a better rebuttal.
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"arcade games are meant to pull you in and get your money and get the next person to"
Are you implying the number of licensed games on consoles are not also intended to make money?
Honestly, there isn't an unplayable game on the Neo Geo. Even the worst Neo Geo game is just "mediocre", compared to the amount of garbage on other consoles that were designed to get a kids attention in the store and that was it.
It depends on what you want in a video game. I don't care for RPG's, specifically because they're too long. I don't want a ton of cutscenes, that's why i got fell out of the Metal Gear fandom.
Are you implying the number of licensed games on consoles are not also intended to make money?
Honestly, there isn't an unplayable game on the Neo Geo. Even the worst Neo Geo game is just "mediocre", compared to the amount of garbage on other consoles that were designed to get a kids attention in the store and that was it.
It depends on what you want in a video game. I don't care for RPG's, specifically because they're too long. I don't want a ton of cutscenes, that's why i got fell out of the Metal Gear fandom.
I know this is a Neo Geo forum, but surely you guys aren't so blinded by the badge that you can't admit most* arcade games don't have the same depth to them as some* console games. I've spent over 100 hours playing Zelda - Breath of the Wild, and according to the game am 17% of the way through it. There is no Neo Geo game of that size or depth, it's not even open to debate.
*like everything in life there are exceptions.
*like everything in life there are exceptions.
Anyway so back to my original point, here is a good example. This hole on NTM is completely unfair, there is no other word for it. I've just played it half a dozen times using the save feature, and the physics is just bullshit. If you hit the ball at 100% power with a 220 yard club, it goes in the water at 170 yards. If you hit it at full strength (so the bar goes green) it goes out of bounds, over 250 yards. You're seriously telling me that 5% of extra power (according to the bar) should make the ball go 70 yards further, in increase of 40%? There is no 'physics' to this game, it's one of those games you just need to play enough to know how to cheat it at its own game. And that was my original point.
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Birdie on every hole in Germany, with the Shot Maker. I stand by you just need to get good.
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All of your examples throughout this entire thread are instances of breadth, not depth.
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Those Scanlines.
Whether I'm any good at it isn't what this topic is about. I've already acknowledged I am new to it and suck
the point I'm making is that the game isn't about skill, or physics, it's about learning/memorising how to beat it. There is a big difference between the two, and the latter is more common in arcade games as they naturally don't want you to succeed. It reminds me of Exctitebike on the NES, where you have to dodge the obstacles. The only way to beat that game is to memorise their position, reaction times simply don't allow you to move to the correct position to avoid them.
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The two are not mutually exclusive. Just because Zelda or RPG games are big, does not mean they are devoid of depth. I think people are taking my comment the wrong way - I'm not saying Neo Geo games are bad, or that RPGs are better, I'm saying they are different. Every type of game has pros and cons. Perhaps my examples were not the best, but there's a big difference between an arcade game you can pick up and play for half an hour (ie most NG games) and an RPG that you need to spend at least a couple of hours on to get anywhere, and woulddn't be playable without the ability to save (eg console RPGs.) It's not a competition, I like both types of games, in fact I have so little spare time these days I tend to prefer the arcade style games at the moment.
Get the fuck outta here.oliverclaude
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The length of the Extra Bar depends on the character you choose. For the German guy it's 10%, so if you hit full with the 270 club, you get additional 27 yards. Using the forward spin adds another 2 yards, hitting Nice another 1 yard for a total maximum of 300 yards. Wind, terrain (rise/descent), turf kind are further factors.
You also have to consider, that the ball doesn't touch down at 300, but at about 280 and then it bounces off and rolls till it reaches 300, mind you, that's on Fairway only, wind at 0. Hittin on heavy rough stops your ball immediately. Using the slice or hook curves shortens the flight, too. Anyway, which character did you use?
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Whether I'm any good at it isn't what this topic is about. I've already acknowledged I am new to it and suck
The wind is randomized every time, that’s not memorizing the game.
Knowing how the game works IS a skill and is how to beat it. How are you not seeing it’s the same thing?
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Because it simply isn't the same thing. My Excitebike example is the most obvious I can think of. You cannot beat that game without knowing where the obstacles are going to appear. It doesn't matter how quick you are, how good your reactions are, what strategy you're using, there isn't enough time on the faster/tougher courses to move to the correct lane before you hit the obstacle if you're not in it before the obstacle appears. You understand how that's different from skill? Skill is being able to beat an intelligent AI opponent or another human player.
IMO Neo Turf Masters, on some holes, suffers from the same thing. Eg hole 16 on Australia which I posted above. Logic/skill would say hitting a ball high, with back spin, with no wind, around 200 yards would clear the water and roll up to the hole. It does not. You have to hit the ball considerably harder than that for no apparent reason on this hole, and if you're not careful it will again for no apparent reason go an extra 50+ yards over the hole and out of bounds.
lordnikon
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The allure of arcade games is that the physical arcade space and monitary system fostered a unique formula of graphics and gameplay that required players to overcome extreme and sometimes absurd obstacles.
I don't think the NeoGeo would be all that interesting if the math always added up.
In NBA Jam/Hangtime (obviously not on neo-geo, but wanted to compare a sports game), you will miss every shot if you try to blowout the CPU. This is unrealistic, cheap, and dirty. Trying to win by a high margin basically breaks the game. If you want to get high scores in various stats like rebounds, blocks, and even points, you have to keep the score close within 2-4 pts for as long as possible. Part of the fun is trying to figure out how to flow along with whatever code the A.I. runs on, to beat the game.
P.S. - Galaxy Fight's A.I. is still super cheap.
I don't think the NeoGeo would be all that interesting if the math always added up.
In NBA Jam/Hangtime (obviously not on neo-geo, but wanted to compare a sports game), you will miss every shot if you try to blowout the CPU. This is unrealistic, cheap, and dirty. Trying to win by a high margin basically breaks the game. If you want to get high scores in various stats like rebounds, blocks, and even points, you have to keep the score close within 2-4 pts for as long as possible. Part of the fun is trying to figure out how to flow along with whatever code the A.I. runs on, to beat the game.
P.S. - Galaxy Fight's A.I. is still super cheap.
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These posts come off as if the ones who have given you rebuttals don't understand the topic at hand. "Goor or bad"? People mixing up "good vs bad" with "different" isn't the issue.
Yes arcade vs console is different obviously. You do understand that most arcade games require hours upon hours upon hours of practice to clear?
"I credit fred through battle garegga in 30 min, but spend 90 hours collecting items in zelda. Zelda is deep! Garegga idk..it's just an arcade game".
That's the vibe I'm getting!