Defining Shooters (Shmups, if you will)

Jeneki

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Gun.Smoke limits your direction of fire, in the general direction of the top of the screen. I believe that's why it gets an easier pass into shmups. Also see Outzone (3-way and yoyo are generally the favored weapons), In The Hunt, or Mamoru-kun which also tend to get lumped in despite not even auto scrolling. That doesn't mean that primary aim direction is the defining trait though, as there are games like Zero Gunner 2, Guardian Force, or Forgotten Worlds that tend to get included as well (though those are all auto scrollers).
 
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Gentle Ben

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Ftfy

Edit: lulz, that is pretty clever guys, admit it
Noice.

Gun.Smoke limits your direction of fire, in the general direction of the top of the screen. I believe that's why it gets an easier pass into shmups. Also see Outzone (3-way and yoyo are generally the favored weapons), In The Hunt, or Mamoru-kun which also tend to get lumped in despite not even auto scrolling. That doesn't mean that primary aim direction is the defining trait though, as there are games like Zero Gunner 2, Guardian Force, or Forgotten Worlds that tend to get included as well (though those are all auto scrollers).

In the Hunt is always top of most people's list of PS1 shooters (I haven't played it). I guess I just haven't branched out enough from the "spaceship or airplane" shooters to see the extent of stretching traditional boundaries.

When I say Deathsmiles doesn't "feel" like a shooter, I guess it's just outside my wheelhouse.

What are some "outside the normal" shooters I may have missed? I have Akai Katana on 360, haven't played it yet.
I have to say that I really prefer the ships for the most part.
I've always been a Sci-fi geek, so I suppose that's why I lean that way. But even the 1942 series and Aero Fighters series are fun for me.
 

Fuckwit1200

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:D
above my paygrade to assume or define anything regarding a genre of game.
still, i'll say 2d shooters, and 2d with 3d mechanic shooters give me a required payoff.
just a stickler for parallax style games.
taito has done a few shooters than incorporate 3d graphics with a fluid 2d gameplay.
dreamcast has a few too, border down and under defeat to name two....:D
tecmo and namco too... :p
 

LoneSage

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autoscrolling games where the player shoots, is a shmup or simply shooter.

non-autoscrolling games where the player shoots, is a run n gunner or simply shooter.
 

oliverclaude

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Entries from the kikikaikai series, mercs, shock troopers, are games I personally don't classify as "shumps" do to the lack of autoscrolling.

What about Defender? No autoscrolling, though definitely an STG. Guess you'll find exceptions everywhere. BTW, I just realized what Kingdom Grand Prix made fun of ;).
 

egg_sanwich

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When I say Deathsmiles doesn't "feel" like a shooter, I guess it's just outside my wheelhouse.

It’s an auto scrolling horizontal shooter with a flying character sprite. What part of this makes it not a shooter?

It it because your sprite is a little girl in panties and not a spaceship?

How about Section Z? Essentially the same mechanics, albeit a robot in space instead of a little girl.

Shmup or nug?
 

Jeneki

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Oh yeah every time I try to explain Deathsmiles to someone I start out with "It's like Section Z". Mostly to see the blank faces, because if I have to explain Deathsmiles to someone they certainly aren't going to know Section Z. :lolz:
 

Mr. Mort

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If Gun.Smoke is a shoot em up, then so is Sunset Riders.
And if Sunset Riders is a shoot em up, then so is Contra.

Just asking where the line necessarily is? It's obviously a blurry one...
I WAS INTERESTED IN HEARING OTHERS' OPINIONS on it.
IF you all just want to shit all over people's honest questions, I'll just stick to the war room from now on.

Gun.Smoke most certainly is a shoot-‘em-up, while Contra and Sunset Riders are run-‘n-gun style games. I’d lump Shock Troopers into that category as well, despite the top-down perspective. The main difference being avoiding hazards & pits in the environment via either jumping/rolling, and the player dictating when the screen scrolls versus a shooter (that is either single-screen, or has forced/fixed scrolling).
 

tighecg

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I have heard Mega Man described as a shooter a few times in the last few years. Why is this? This seems odd to me, I have always seen it as a pretty standard platformer. If there is a shooting mechanic in the game does that automatically make it a shooter? And then the smaller details of how the mechanic is used define the sub-genre(shoot'em up,RnG, FPS, on-rails, light gun)? Is Mega Man a platform shooter? Does SMB become a shooter after getting the fire flower? Or is it as Sage says, a shooter is a shooter is a shooter? Ben, you have opened a pandoras box.

Seriously, I don't see MM as a shooter
 

Gentle Ben

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I have heard Mega Man described as a shooter a few times in the last few years. Why is this? This seems odd to me, I have always seen it as a pretty standard platformer. If there is a shooting mechanic in the game does that automatically make it a shooter? And then the smaller details of how the mechanic is used define the sub-genre(shoot'em up,RnG, FPS, on-rails, light gun)? Is Mega Man a platform shooter? Does SMB become a shooter after getting the fire flower? Or is it as Sage says, a shooter is a shooter is a shooter? Ben, you have opened a pandoras box.

Seriously, I don't see MM as a shooter

Yeah, MM is way more of a run n gun, and it seems as if you can always find games that kind of blur the lines between genres.
Which is cool, because if every game was always the same, it would get boring real quick.
 

LoneSage

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Mega Man is not a run 'n gun though it has elements from that genre.
 

JohnnyFever

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All I know is that if I start talking about a game, and it gets a girl biting her lower lip when I talk about it...then I know it's a shmup.

I think we can wrap this one up.
 

titchgamer

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All I know is that if I start talking about a game, and it gets a girl biting her lower lip when I talk about it...then I know it's a shmup.

I think we can wrap this one up.

Where the hell do you find such women!?

Tell me your secrets master!
 

oliverclaude

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Both are run and gun.

IDK, this label omits the jumping part, which is quite essential for both games. I could imagine a run'n'gun being a game like Commando and all its spiritual follow-ups, i.e. Ikari Warriors, Mercs or Shock Troopers. Games where any jumping parts are either non-existent or at least not crucial.

In consequence, I'd rather call Sunset Raiders and Contra a jump'n'shoot game, though it might still be arguable. The point is, that I'd like to draw a line between a Commando & Contra-like gameplay, since they really demand different approaches from a player, as well as from a game designer.
 

ForeverSublime

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IDK, this label omits the jumping part, which is quite essential for both games. I could imagine a run'n'gun being a game like Commando and all its spiritual follow-ups, i.e. Ikari Warriors, Mercs or Shock Troopers. Games where any jumping parts are either non-existent or at least not crucial.

In consequence, I'd rather call Sunset Raiders and Contra a jump'n'shoot game, though it might still be arguable. The point is, that I'd like to draw a line between a Commando & Contra-like gameplay, since they really demand different approaches from a player, as well as from a game designer.

Jump n' Shoot doesn't rhyme, therefore is not a genre.
 

oliverclaude

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Jump n' Shoot doesn't rhyme, therefore is not a genre.

That's bewildering, I thought the same thing about survival horror. Since you either run away from or just slaughter away zombies, it should've been termed dash n' slash. It's like being in one of those mid 80's You Nailed It, I Failed It shows -- thanks the suggestion!
 

ForeverSublime

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That's bewildering, I thought the same thing about survival horror. Since you either run away from or just slaughter away zombies, it should've been termed dash n' slash. It's like being in one of those mid 80's You Nailed It, I Failed It shows -- thanks the suggestion!

Survival Horror rhymes in Japanglish.
 

oliverclaude

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Survival Horror rhymes in Japanglish.

Let's not delude ourselves with Hepburn romanization, since in the end, it's unfortunately the opposite in Japan, where, if it rhymes, it's not a genre. It rhyming is just another trap for us outsiders, Non-Japanese fools to fall for, perfectly expressed by Masaoka Shiki at the end of the 19th century in his legendary, thought-provoking haiku:

the wind of rhyme
I've brought on my fan
a stench of gaijin
 
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