IV and Bloodlines are better than Rondo of Blood

LoneSage

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I think Rondo of Blood got legendary status only because it never came out to America at the time and everyone hyped it to be the best thing since sliced Sylvie.

It's good don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing as Richter (playing as Maria has got to be a joke from the developers, right? Were they saying 'ok you can play this game on Easy but your character will be a little girl and she's got power over animals like Snow White and you should feel ashamed for it and it's so off-putting it won't even feel like Castlevania') but I'm just saying I like IV and Bloodlines more.

what say you gents
 

RAZO

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I like Bloodlines and IV but I don't think they are better than Rondo. Only Castlevania game that might be better is SOTN.

Ban please.
 

GohanX

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Man, you out of your communist mind. You could make an argument for Bloodlines being better, but IV was pretty bland. They nailed music and atmosphere, but it's a boring game compared to the others.
 

ggallegos1

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I prefer 4 over bloodlines and Rondo. It just feels smoother, and even though simon is slower than Richter, it just feels smoother.
 

andsuchisdeath

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Ok, Lonesage I think I understand.

I might go as far as saying that I enjoy IV and bloodlines more. But the reason is obvious. Less linear = less I can enjoy a game. Objectively, I think Rondo is the superior title. Don't get me wrong, I like Rondo quite a bit.

But hey, I also like SNES Dracula X, despite it being inferior to both Rondo and IV, is IMO unfairly maligned (southtownkid knows what's up).
 
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GohanX

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SNES Drac X is one of the few video games (Along with Ghost Pilots and Alpha Mission II) that have literally put me to sleep.
 

andsuchisdeath

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Oh I believe you, I just can't comprehend the distain. The physics/control is definitely inferior IV/Bloodlines/Rondo, but I don't find it's pacing unpleasant, I don't find it overly easy, overly difficult.

I guess I just assume people think it's bad because

A. There's the "hey, wtf, this is nothing like the PC-Engine game!" reaction that set a bad tone for it. I'm sure all of the late 90's early 2000's gamefaqs reviews are unfavorable. As silly as that sounds...those reviews planted a lot of seeds in peoples minds for a good chunk of time. Maybe not so much today though haha.

Or

B. People think it's "overpriced" and not worth the money. I think it's easy for a lot of people do get disappointed when playing "collectors pieces'

But I'm sure there are also C,D,E,F reasons.
 

LoneSage

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Man, you out of your communist mind. You could make an argument for Bloodlines being better, but IV was pretty bland. They nailed music and atmosphere, but it's a boring game compared to the others.

Yeah man I get where you're coming from and I kind of agree. I definitely have bias because I loved IV and it was one of the first games I played. Everything in that Sequelitis video from six years ago was pretty spot-on. One of the places were the developers dropped the ball was the last Drac fight - they changed his head and...that's about it. Compare that to III's insane Drac fight (youtube that shit if you forgot it) and there's no comparison.

I remember reading a play magazine interview in 2003 with one of the guys who worked on IV and one thing that stood out in my mind was the guy said they were working non-stop, 24/7 to meet deadlines. I'll just have to guess they ran out of time and energy to do anything wild like they did in III, switched a head sprite and called it a day.

That invincibility potion is also one of the most worthless items in gaming history. There really is no reason for it to be in a Castlevania game, especially at the parts in the game where it's placed.

With all that said, I recognize its faults, and how bland it is (think of IV and a color - you're thinking of brown, right? IV is a very brown game) but I still love it and play it every Halloween or Christmas.

Less linear = less I can enjoy a game. Objectively, I think Rondo is the superior title. Don't get me wrong, I like Rondo quite a bit.

I'm confused. IV and Bloodlines are more linear than Rondo, which has separate paths like Slug 3.
 
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BlackaneseNiNjA

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Bloodlines all day imho. Rondo’s former japan-only mythos aside, the branching paths and gameplay in Rondo is definitely top notch. I just prefer the music, stages, bosses, and the 2 great playable characters found in Bloodlines. It’s my favorite “traditional”/not-metroidvania style castlevania game.
 

LoneSage

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Bloodlines all day imho. Rondo’s former japan-only mythos aside, the branching paths and gameplay in Rondo is definitely top notch. I just prefer the music, stages, bosses, and the 2 great playable characters found in Bloodlines. It’s my favorite “traditional”/not-metroidvania style castlevania game.

When I was a child, I liked IV best. When I was a late teenager/young man, I liked Bloodlines best. Nowadays I can't say I have a favorite in anything, so it just depends on how I feel.

Lecarde with the Alcarde spear ftw

what happened to the Belmonts after Richter, how did John Morris get the Vampire Killer
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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When I was a child, I liked IV best. When I was a late teenager/young man, I liked Bloodlines best. Nowadays I can't say I have a favorite in anything, so it just depends on how I feel.

Lecarde with the Alcarde spear ftw

what happened to the Belmonts after Richter, how did John Morris get the Vampire Killer

Sup LS! I feel ya. Castlevania is a varied enough series where many of the games add or subtract enough rpg elements, etc that make many of the games feel unique enough to be enjoyed as independent one-off games.

Eric Lecarde is definitely who I play as 90% of the time. That polevault jump flip move never gets old lol

From a plot perspective, Bloodlines is kinda weird since Konami all of a sudden decided to pull more heavily from the Bram Stoker novel rather than just classic hollywood horror. Tying the Belmonts to the Morris bloodline was kinda nebulous at the time, but the introduction of John Morris’s son Jonathan in Portrait of Ruin on the DS helped explain how the whip possibly made it’s way back around to the Belmont’s again (probably Julius Belmont afterwards). As for how it reached the Morris clan to begin with, depending on the timeline you use, it would have been in the hands of Nathan Graves before that I think.
 

LoneSage

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Circle of the Moon got retconned, never happened. But even if it didn't get retconned, Nathan only had the Hunter's Whip, not the Vampire Killer.
 
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Gentlegamer

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Man, you out of your communist mind. You could make an argument for Bloodlines being better, but IV was pretty bland. They nailed music and atmosphere, but it's a boring game compared to the others.

I like IV, but it's a poor Castlevania game, as you point out.

Castlevania III - Dracula's Curse is the best Castlevania.
 

GohanX

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Yeah man I get where you're coming from and I kind of agree. I definitely have bias because I loved IV and it was one of the first games I played. Everything in that Sequelitis video from six years ago was pretty spot-on. One of the places were the developers dropped the ball was the last Drac fight - they changed his head and...that's about it. Compare that to III's insane Drac fight (youtube that shit if you forgot it) and there's no comparison.

I remember reading a play magazine interview in 2003 with one of the guys who worked on IV and one thing that stood out in my mind was the guy said they were working non-stop, 24/7 to meet deadlines. I'll just have to guess they ran out of time and energy to do anything wild like they did in III, switched a head sprite and called it a day.

That invincibility potion is also one of the most worthless items in gaming history. There really is no reason for it to be in a Castlevania game, especially at the parts in the game where it's placed.

With all that said, I recognize its faults, and how bland it is (think of IV and a color - you're thinking of brown, right? IV is a very brown game) but I still love it and play it every Halloween or Christmas..

Yeah, time constraints was probably a big part of it. SC4 is a HUGE game, but there are many spots where you're just walking left to right with no enemies or obstacles in your way. I think given the limited time if they had cut the size of the game in half and focused on making what was left better it probably would have been the best. Konami certainly had the talent at the time.
 

Gentlegamer

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The big problem with Castlevania IV is adding the multi-directional whip and air control while jumping without updating the rest of the game design. The whip makes every sub-weapon superfluous and there's no challenging enemy in the whole game because how good the whip is. There's only one part near the end of the game that makes any platforming even slightly challenging.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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Circle of the Moon got retconned, never happened. But even if it didn't get retconned, Nathan only had the Hunter's Whip, not the Vampire Killer.

Ah, I always thought that Koji removed it from the timeline initially because he didn’t make it (when he announced Harmony of Dissonance), but then put it back later on as a side story (I’ll double check the timeline that came out with Portrait of Ruin). So that leaves us Reinhardt Schneider’s lineage as the likely clan who passed it to the Morris family?

Edit: Yeah it looks like by the time Portrait of Ruin was released Koji put circle of the moon back in the timeline just before the N64 games.
 
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andsuchisdeath

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The big problem with Castlevania IV is adding the multi-directional whip and air control while jumping without updating the rest of the game design. The whip makes every sub-weapon superfluous and there's no challenging enemy in the whole game because how good the whip is. There's only one part near the end of the game that makes any platforming even slightly challenging.

You ever 2-ALL Castlevania IV?
 

andsuchisdeath

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IV takes like two and a half hours to beat, ain't no one got time to go thru that again.

I know. My point is that the second loop is challenging, and I would bet that the first loop was very much designed with the second loop in mind.
 

WoodyXP

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I agree that Bloodlines is better than Rondo, but IV is trash. I wouldn't even compare it to the other two games.
 

GohanX

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Ah, I always thought that Koji removed it from the timeline initially because he didn’t make it (when he announced Harmony of Dissonance), but then put it back later on as a side story (I’ll double check the timeline that came out with Portrait of Ruin). So that leaves us Reinhardt Schneider’s lineage as the likely clan who passed it to the Morris family?

Edit: Yeah it looks like by the time Portrait of Ruin was released Koji put circle of the moon back in the timeline just before the N64 games.

Meh, I don't give a damn what Iga says. He was the head for the last leg of Castlevania's life, but he had little to do with what made the series great. He worked on Rondo and SotN, but the games that he was actually in charge of mostly just tried to remake SotN, and while being good games they were never quite the same.
 

LoneSage

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Meh, I don't give a damn what Iga says. He was the head for the last leg of Castlevania's life, but he had little to do with what made the series great. He worked on Rondo and SotN, but the games that he was actually in charge of mostly just tried to remake SotN, and while being good games they were never quite the same.

There was definitely a time where people were really tired of all the handheld Metroidvanias just like when people were tired of all the Mega Man games, but I sure wouldn't mind a new one for either series right about now. In a way they're pretty similar - the company found a formula that worked and they milked it for all its worth (which isn't a bad thing, as long as they didn't get lazy - which they did).

Didn't like Ecclesia, tho.
 
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