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caching and collecting are not the same. and there's not really any evidence that humans have an instinct to create caches
1 item can absolutely be a collection.
When does a collection become a collection?
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caching and collecting are not the same. and there's not really any evidence that humans have an instinct to create caches
1 item can absolutely be a collection.
oliverclaude
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In German, we say "Jäger & Sammler" (hunter & gatherer), "Sammler" literally meaning "collector". That's what I was referring to as an instinct. The instinct to collect food (berries, wild growing plants, small animals etc.), now used to collect whatever, paying homage to what once made it possible for us to survive.
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do you have any psych research to back that up because i would still argue that the urge to collect berries is almost entirely based on the fact that the person collecting them is only doing so because people need to eat that much or that little of berries in order to balance the food supply and stay fed so it has little to do with our abstracted desires to own a group of a certain thing (by any classification) forever and not consume or destroy it
oliverclaude
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The word instinct has always been disputable and is not fit to use in academic terms. I took the liberty to link the former urge to collect food with the current urge to collect things in general similar to Kubrick, who linked evolution strictly to the proficiency of murder in the first part of his Space Odyssey. His decision is doubtful, because it dismisses "gathering" entirely as a decisive part of intelligence and progress.
My opinion may be doubtful, too, but I'd argue, that if food is not an issue for you anymore, to the point that you're able to get it easily, you start to look elsewhere to satisfy this urge, even if you are only aware of it at a near unconscious level. Call it privilege of advanced civilizations. But yeah, my opinion, or Kubrick's for that matter, is just as good as yours in this case.
My opinion may be doubtful, too, but I'd argue, that if food is not an issue for you anymore, to the point that you're able to get it easily, you start to look elsewhere to satisfy this urge, even if you are only aware of it at a near unconscious level. Call it privilege of advanced civilizations. But yeah, my opinion, or Kubrick's for that matter, is just as good as yours in this case.
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suicidekiller
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That sounds a lot like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If you satisfy your 'pyhsiological needs' you look for 'safety' next. And that's what I think is the reason behnid collecting: fear. So in other words a collection becomes a collection if you are angst-ridden, whatever motives may be behind it (losing childhood memories, money, appreciation by others... etc.).
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I think it's more "Hunter Gatherer" and "Gatherer".
Agriculture is what stopped humans from being nomadic. Collecting berries is the same as gathering. It wasn't collecting to cache for another date.
I have never seen articles that dispute Instinct. It's surprising what is literally hard-coded into animals and insects. Anything related to human is certainly contentious. Partly due to religion, and partly because nature v nurture experiments are unethical.
oliverclaude
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Caching for another date may be one part of collecting and so is hoarding. The question remains: What is the difference between hoarding and collecting? The way you organize things? Display them? Or is there even a further difference between caching and hoarding?
I also don't see a relevant difference in regard to the source of both: fear, as suicidekiller depicted in his post, and the instinct to deal with it. It seems, that dealing with fear by collecting, hoarding or caching things is conducted by the same instinct. The instinct to survive.
But, as Sylvie aptly pointed out, we're both into polemics, not science, and your opinion is as good as mine. Or anybody else's for that matter. It just proves, that there is more to the topic than meets the eye. And certainly more than one Immortal John Hancock
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suicidekiller
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I see a difference in the source of fear. You try to explain collecting in analogy to physiological needs which express itself in collecting food and to ultimately survive. That's something which could be described as instinct for survival. Whereas I see collecting on a higher level on Maslow's hierarchy. Safety and appreciation/love by others. Losing that is what you fear for when collecting stuff which is appreciated by others. In other words: You wouldn't buy video games if you are hungry, would you?
Hoarding then again is different and pathological. There are psychological reasons behind it and affected people should consult a doctor. The more difficult question would be when does collecting becomes hoarding? Guess it's a fine line some of us have been balancing on from time to time
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Instinct to survive is rather abstract and may be more colloquial here.
There are measurable features and reflexes that are for survival. Introductory neurology reviews many of these from insects to mammals.
When does collecting become hoarding? Probably when it's detrimental to your well-being. When it's compulsive.
There are measurable features and reflexes that are for survival. Introductory neurology reviews many of these from insects to mammals.
When does collecting become hoarding? Probably when it's detrimental to your well-being. When it's compulsive.
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oliverclaude
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Collecting, hoarding or the word you used, caching -- there seems to be no difference between them, other than vague connotations. You can do either in a sane or insane manner and if one of them derives from instinct, others do, too. This beginning of your argument:
...needs more explanation. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that establishing a conclusive difference between collecting, hoarding or caching would be a very tough task, without referring to non-scientific connotations as arguments, which have been attached to these words. Like the pejorative connotation that has been attached to the word hoarding, which doesn't seem correct, because you can just as well hoard things in a manner, that is not compulsive or pathological.
oliverclaude
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Other than that, I agree with suicidekiller: the question is, when does collecting (hoarding, caching, gathering etc.) looses its validity. When do we cease to keep the golden mean?
If collecting is part of our instincts, and in my opinion this is a likely thought, then keeping control is a pain. We get constantly serotonin rewards from our brain to keep certain 'collections' going, but collecting fat and sugar in abundance is no longer valid. What was necessary for our survival, has now become a casket nail. Consequently, we get the same chemical rewards for collecting other things... and become MDMA addicts, without even realizing it.
If collecting is part of our instincts, and in my opinion this is a likely thought, then keeping control is a pain. We get constantly serotonin rewards from our brain to keep certain 'collections' going, but collecting fat and sugar in abundance is no longer valid. What was necessary for our survival, has now become a casket nail. Consequently, we get the same chemical rewards for collecting other things... and become MDMA addicts, without even realizing it
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I would go back to my original statement on this thread. Collecting is when you aquire something just to have it.
caching has an intended purpose. Food storage.
doomsday preppers arent collecting. they are preparing.
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Some collect with the purpose of decorating. Not in the videogame world maybe but with antiques it happens
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hoarding is basically when any and all objects that can reasonably be obtained by the hoarder represent a potential loss immediately. Its very different from collecting, starting with the fact that it's a mental disorder far removed from natural urges and closer to Planet Trauma and its moon, Loneliness
oliverclaude
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Sounds good, but isn't the simple "having it" already an intended purpose, too? The collection piece is supposed to be part of a bigger concept. Being that part is also purposeful.
What about speculators? You hoard gold, stock, art etc. just to make profit later on. The fact that you're "preparing" to sell doesn't delete the prior act of hoarding -- and it's certainly not a pathological action.