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Thread: Naomi 2 power hungry?

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    icon24.gif Naomi 2 power hungry?

    I have got a Naomi 2 with Virtue Fighter 4 since 2 years. I bought it with a Sega I/O but returned it back and after a couple of months I found a Capcom I/O. It was time to test the system for the first time using my one and only Sigma Raijin. The first surprise came after a few seconds in the red title screen where the game just froze...I thought it may be the 5 volts as my little volt display on the jamma was showing a little less than 5v. Upped voltage and it played for more time.

    Here it came my first conclusion that every other pcbs play with the voltage at about 5.1 with no pcb connected while the Naomi 2 needed about 5.3. That would drop to about 5.05 with the system connected and in demo mode. I still had freezes after about half an hour though. Volts would drop as low as 5.0 in intense scenes of demo mode and would go to 5.1 on easy scenes. I was always careful not to overvolt the board. I had came to a final conclusion that I may need a separate PC PSU or a SUN psu in order to play normaly.

    A few months ago I read that all caps in Naomi 1 & 2 are ELNA! These caps are already known to some of you from Irem's M92. So I decided to replace all smd caps in my Naomi. I counted about 80. Most of them had already leaked a little bit but there was no damage yet. I cleaned the pcb very well and soldered back all 80 caps . The only difference is that I used classic electrolytic caps because it was easier for me with the simple soldering equipment I use. I don't know why but powering up the board and have it running needed more volts than 5.3. Or else it would freeze quicker. I remind that 5.3 is without a board connected. With the board this would drop to about 5.05.

    I left the system worrying that it may had hardware failure somewhere. Maybe one faulty GPU from the two.

    Yesterday searched the forum once again and found that Naomi games have some very sensitive buffers. Overvoltage above 5.2 kills them and consequences are random freezing. I was about to believe I have bought a broken game until yesterday when I got in my hands a Chinese 450 watts PC PSU. I measured all its outputs, 12v 5v and 3.3v with a multimeter and it seemed right. Advertised amperage was far more than a SUN psu in both 5v and 3.3v. Connected the system but nothing. This shit couldn't even power on the system. When connected readings where 4.9v and 2.2v. I decided to do a last attempt with my Sigma upping voltage in 5v line while the pcbs playing in demo mode trying not to have it fall below 5.05. I could achieve it but when not intense moments voltage could go instantly to 5.16. At the end it played ok for 2 hours until I turned it off. Now I am sure that the game and the system are both ok. 2 Power VR 2 Gpus are power hungry. Back in the day a Power VR2 was equivalent with a 3dfx Voodoo 2.

    Is it normal for the voltage to switch between 5.05 and 5.16 ? Do I really need a SUN psu or an Industrial Mean Well 150/200 watt psu with adjustable all voltage lines?

    How do you play Naomi 2?

    Thanks for reading all this

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    The Chinese Kid Kid Panda's Avatar
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    I use a naomi 2 in a NNC which is powered by a sun psu.
    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    I don't know why you're white knighting this guy, couldn't you buy the North Pole and have the elves build you anything you want?

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    I've had a Naomi 2 running off a sun psu also, you shouldn't really need to adjust the 5v rail beyond 5.1 without load, if at all....

    You can always try an ATX PSU but keep away from anything cheap from china. They don't operate anywhere near their stated max wattage (for very long...), have terrible voltage regulation and efficiency. I wouldn't use it on a PC let alone a Naomi 2 board.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    I've had a Naomi 2 running off a sun psu also, you shouldn't really need to adjust the 5v rail beyond 5.1 without load, if at all....

    You can always try an ATX PSU but keep away from anything cheap from china. They don't operate anywhere near their stated max wattage (for very long...), have terrible voltage regulation and efficiency. I wouldn't use it on a PC let alone a Naomi 2 board.
    This means the SUN psu is far better than my sigma's psu. Or Capcom I/O stresses 5v a lot in order to output a stable 3.3 in parallel. I think Capcom I/O is only suitable for Naomi 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Beret View Post
    This means the SUN psu is far better than my sigma's psu. Or Capcom I/O stresses 5v a lot in order to output a stable 3.3 in parallel. I think Capcom I/O is only suitable for Naomi 1
    ^This, the I/O boards are really only good for regular Naomi and carts. Naomi's are beasts; get you a sun PSU to help power that monster.


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    Quote Originally Posted by radiantsvgun View Post
    ^This, the I/O boards are really only good for regular Naomi and carts. Naomi's are beasts; get you a sun PSU to help power that monster.
    It's really a Monster! Yesterday I tried a second PC PSU rated at 550w with tens of amperage in 5v and 3.3. With the multimeter it was 5.1 and 3.38 free of load. Started for 30 secs and then stopped. It made me thinking to connect my main PC PSU AX850w corsair gold. But it's boring to disconnect the PC.

    I will be ordering a SUN even though they are all rusty on eBay. I will at least recap it.

    In the mean while all people need to remove the ELNA suckers and recap your Naomis if you haven't already.
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-12-2018 at 04:20 AM.

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    I'm pretty sure I ran my Naomi 2 with carts off my my Supergun's PSU, though it is a HAPP arcade PSU, I use the Capcom IO. Of course using a GD-ROM setup I need a Sun PSU. I can check tonight if necessary since I still have the Naomi 2 and a cart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I'm pretty sure I ran my Naomi 2 with carts off my my Supergun's PSU, though it is a HAPP arcade PSU, I use the Capcom IO. Of course using a GD-ROM setup I need a Sun PSU. I can check tonight if necessary since I still have the Naomi 2 and a cart.
    In case you don't remember, can you check if you raise voltage especially for Naomi 2?

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    Naomi 2 requires "crossload" which means different wattage from different voltage in real time. Crossroad stresses a PC psu very hard. PC PSU focuses mostly on 12v rail. That's why Naomi 2 needs a special psu like SUN or a high end PC PSU that won't drop voltage more than 5% on 5v and 3.3v lines when stressed.
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-13-2018 at 01:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Beret View Post
    Naomi 2 requires "crossload" which means different wattage from different voltage in real time. Crossroad stresses a PC psu very hard. PC PSU focuses mostly on 12v rail. That's why Naomi 2 needs a special psu like SUN or a high end PC PSU that won't drop voltage more than 5% on 5v and 3.3v lines when stressed.
    Sounds like you don't really need our help!


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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    Sounds like you don't really need our help!
    I put down everything I know because Naomi 2 is a very difficult system to run for newbies and even for some experienced in arcade. Everything someone says in this thread will be useful. I keep searching...

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    This is how it finally worked. I chose an expensive solution but I think it's worth it.

    I removed my 2011's high end psu Corsair AX850 gold from the PC and using a Molex splitter I bypassed my sigma's internal psu by putting the Corsair next to Sigma. I left the internal inside the Sigma.While on splitter I can choose to use either the internal psu or the external psu. Of course the external will be the default. Voltage stability is super and it has a lot of protections. There is a second output on the Corsair going to Naomi 2 which is super stable at 4.92v and had it tested for 8 hours in demo mode.

    There is a Corsair AX1500i Titanium coming on Thursday from Amazon to equip the PC. It is a high dollar psu but you are taking what you pay for. Now I like both setups better , PC and Supergun.
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-16-2018 at 03:49 AM.

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    I power all of my boards with an off-brand ATX power supply, and the only thing I've noticed is that Naomi is actually more power hungry than Naomi 2. I use Capcom's I/O and in my case, using Naomi with a Net DIMM increases the power consumption so that it's too much for my power supply to handle. Naomi 2 however, works fine. Even with a Net DIMM and a Raspberry Pi getting power directly from the filterboard. For Naomi to boot with that power supply, I must either use a regular game, or nothing at all. I haven't measured the output of that power supply, but it's what I've been using for years and Naomi was the only board which it couldn't handle. With Capcom I/O, Net DIMM and Pi connected, that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morden View Post
    I power all of my boards with an off-brand ATX power supply, and the only thing I've noticed is that Naomi is actually more power hungry than Naomi 2. I use Capcom's I/O and in my case, using Naomi with a Net DIMM increases the power consumption so that it's too much for my power supply to handle. Naomi 2 however, works fine. Even with a Net DIMM and a Raspberry Pi getting power directly from the filterboard. For Naomi to boot with that power supply, I must either use a regular game, or nothing at all. I haven't measured the output of that power supply, but it's what I've been using for years and Naomi was the only board which it couldn't handle. With Capcom I/O, Net DIMM and Pi connected, that is.
    Naomi can't be more power haungry than Naomi 2. Naomi 2 has 2x Power VR 2 GPUs. Maybe it depends on the game if it has demanding 3d graphics. Do you have Virtua Fighter 4? What games are you playing?

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    After a few days testing my setup (and not just Naomi 2)with the Corsair psu instead of the sigma's psu I discovered that while it plays Naomi 2 flawlessly, it can't play boards like Mortal Kombat 2 and Primal Rage. Volts fall to 4.7 with MK2 and 4.6 with PR. The meanwell inside the Sigma plays those easily while on 5,12v without a pcb. Corsair defaults at 4.99 with nothing connected.
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-19-2018 at 02:34 PM.

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    Honestly, buy a SUN PSU. Has a variable 5v rail. They aren't expensive and work great.
    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    I don't know why you're white knighting this guy, couldn't you buy the North Pole and have the elves build you anything you want?

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    I was actually thinking of using one of these power supplies from RS-Components, also made by Mean Well.

    https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/embed...-smps/0414080/

    Has 15A on 3.3v and 5v with 6A on the 12v rail AND it's adjustable! Looks like a pretty beefy power supply, would be interesting to see how it performs but they're about $230.


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    sorry, re re post.
    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    I don't know why you're white knighting this guy, couldn't you buy the North Pole and have the elves build you anything you want?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    I was actually thinking of using one of these power supplies from RS-Components, also made by Mean Well.

    https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/embed...-smps/0414080/

    Has 15A on 3.3v and 5v with 6A on the 12v rail AND it's adjustable! Looks like a pretty beefy power supply, would be interesting to see how it performs but they're about $230.
    I recommend this
    Mean Well QP-200-3A from here: https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...MyImaJ6MJCLA==

    after reading this :
    https://www.arcade-projects.com/foru...mi-1-and-or-2/

    I think the one meanwell psu you pointed has no -5v rail.

    About quality PC PSUs they have a much cleaner current for the pcb's components. They have a much higher efficiency too that averages at 92% instead of about 70% or less the arcade psus have. My Corsair AX850 will not play Primal Rage but will play everything else. I shortened the Molex cable and now MKII plays fine. But again this is a 2011 psu. If you buy a new Seasonic Prime Ultra 600w Titanium grade will be a champ. That Meanwell 200w will be great too.
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-21-2018 at 10:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    Honestly, buy a SUN PSU. Has a variable 5v rail. They aren't expensive and work great.
    The SUN psu would be my choice if the Corsair I had in my home PC couldn't work with Naomi 2. But now it is working at 4.91 volts without moving up or down while playing. Stable. My Sigma's meanwell was moving from 5.06 to 5.16 and needed adjustment to stabilize it there before the game freeze. Corsair feeds my arcade setup now and will only connect the old Meanwell inside Sigma for Primal Rage.
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-21-2018 at 10:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Beret View Post
    I recommend this
    Mean Well QP-200-3A from here: https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...MyImaJ6MJCLA==

    after reading this :
    https://www.arcade-projects.com/foru...mi-1-and-or-2/

    I think the one meanwell psu you pointed has no -5v rail.

    About quality PC PSUs they have a much cleaner current for the pcb's components. They have a much higher efficiency too that averages at 92% instead of about 70% or less the arcade psus have. My Corsair AX850 will not play Primal Rage but will play everything else. I shortened the Molex cable and now MKII plays fine. But again this is a 2011 psu. If you buy a new Seasonic Prime Ultra 600w Titanium grade will be a champ. That Meanwell 200w will be great too.
    Good point about that -5v rail if you have a board that requires it. With these I'm thinking much more about cabinet PSU replacements or upgrades, ATX psu's are much friendlier in regards to hook up especially at the mains end though.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    Good point about that -5v rail if you have a board that requires it. With these I'm thinking much more about cabinet PSU replacements or upgrades, ATX psu's are much friendlier in regards to hook up especially at the mains end though.
    ATX psus are friendly but they don't have -5v too. Before I connect my new digital Corsair psu on the PC, I ''ll hook it up first on the arcade to see what will be the outcome with such an expensive psu
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-21-2018 at 11:39 AM.

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    Just for the record and for everyone that may read this in the future. A high end with titanium efficiency DIGITAL psu like the Corsair AX1550i is, will show the same volts on 5v rail as an already very good as the older Corsair AX850 gold is. In any case there must be a very short molex cable going out from the psu for best results.

    They will play everything except the huge pcb Primal Rage which for some reason 5v rail drops to 4.3v
    Last edited by Green Beret; 04-23-2018 at 02:58 AM.

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