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Thread: Are people allowed secrets?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithy View Post
    I guess one of the questions is: would anyone here happily turn over a full transcript of everything they have ever posted here to an employer? their family? maybe even their spouse?
    This forum is indexed by google, in fact I can find this thread in the search results already.

    Everything that is on a public forum is public and people should be aware of it. It isn't the same as if someone made something public that was in a PM or posted onto a private forum.

    Anyways, words on their own do not mean much of anything. Actions and actions with intent are another story. For this teacher who got in trouble, the lead story should be that she was teaching by her own agenda and not following the requirements of her position (whatever they are) and not what she does when she is not at work, not that she has different political views and should be condemned for them.

    Gone are the days of recognizing that people are different and accepting them for what they are. Nowadays everyone must fit into the round hole even if you are a square peg.

    dude, you're awful at this, you didn't even tried.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithy View Post
    I guess one of the questions is: would anyone here happily turn over a full transcript of everything they have ever posted here to an employer? their family? maybe even their spouse?
    If my avatar here was a picture of me, and I was posting here about unethical things I was doing at work, and my employer found out and fired me, then I would blame no one but myself. Again, I don't really care that this chick is a white supremacist and is active in online communities for that stuff. That's her personal life.

    How is this any different than in the pre-internet era, if some guy goes around shooting his mouth off to his friends about stealing from work, and it gets back to his boss, who fires him? Can he claim that those were private conversations with his personal friends? I thought conservatives were all about personal responsibility?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripredacus View Post
    This forum is indexed by google, in fact I can find this thread in the search results already.

    Everything that is on a public forum is public and people should be aware of it. It isn't the same as if someone made something public that was in a PM or posted onto a private forum.

    Anyways, words on their own do not mean much of anything. Actions and actions with intent are another story. For this teacher who got in trouble, the lead story should be that she was teaching by her own agenda and not following the requirements of her position (whatever they are) and not what she does when she is not at work, not that she has different political views and should be condemned for them.

    Gone are the days of recognizing that people are different and accepting them for what they are. Nowadays everyone must fit into the round hole even if you are a square peg.
    We discuss this often in class...

    I wonder where this is all heading with the whole attack on freedom of speech. This is a odd thing figuring many of those currently going after others are rather inflammatory themselves...they're just too obtuse to see it.

    Her political beliefs are irrelevant, especially if she can maintain professionalism at work...but there is point where you're poking the skunk. A racist podcast is not the best idea...

    If I read things correctly, she was making claims of pushing her agenda in class, if that's true, she deserved to be let go.
    Last edited by smokehouse; 03-06-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    We discuss this often in class...

    I wonder where this is all heading with the whole attack on freedom of speech. This is a odd thing figuring many of those currently going after others are rather inflammatory themselves...they're just too obtuse to see it.

    Her political beliefs are irrelevant, especially if she can maintain professionalism at work...but there is point where you're poking the skunk. A racist podcast is not the best idea...

    If I read things correctly, she was making claims of pushing her agenda in class, if that's true, she deserved to be let go.
    Is white supremacy really a political belief? Let's just say for the sake of argument that it is. Maybe I'm off, but I feel like people kind of roll their eyes in retrospect when thinking about the red scare and people under suspicion of being socialists or communists being fired and blacklisted. I don't think that trend would repeat with white supremacy. Firing people for beliefs in isolationism and self-sufficiency would maybe seem ridiculous decades down the road, but white supremacy is a very bold line to cross.

    So, this made me ask myself, would I hire a white supremacist? Hell no. But others might say "Well, what does that have to do with their work performance?" I dunno, critical thinking for one. Being able to function in a diverse workplace? PR and liability of this person reflecting poorly on my business? This person interacting with any customers who weren't white? Even though my initial reaction was "Well, wait a sec, we can't go hiring and firing people for their beliefs..." my slightly more thought-out response would be that some ideas / beliefs are just inherently bad. I'm an atheist. I wouldn't refuse someone based on their religion. But I would refuse / fire someone if they were hanging outside of abortion clinics calling girls sluts or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fakeXsound View Post
    Is white supremacy really a political belief? Let's just say for the sake of argument that it is. Maybe I'm off, but I feel like people kind of roll their eyes in retrospect when thinking about the red scare and people under suspicion of being socialists or communists being fired and blacklisted. I don't think that trend would repeat with white supremacy. Firing people for beliefs in isolationism and self-sufficiency would maybe seem ridiculous decades down the road, but white supremacy is a very bold line to cross.

    So, this made me ask myself, would I hire a white supremacist? Hell no. But others might say "Well, what does that have to do with their work performance?" I dunno, critical thinking for one. Being able to function in a diverse workplace? PR and liability of this person reflecting poorly on my business? This person interacting with any customers who weren't white? Even though my initial reaction was "Well, wait a sec, we can't go hiring and firing people for their beliefs..." my slightly more thought-out response would be that some ideas / beliefs are just inherently bad. I'm an atheist. I wouldn't refuse someone based on their religion. But I would refuse / fire someone if they were hanging outside of abortion clinics calling girls sluts or whatever.
    Perhaps my use of "political" was misplaced, kinda. Supremacists are often mixed into politics so yes, in a way it is.

    As for what you said, I'll say this:

    I believe in due process.

    Guilty until proven innocent or guilty on what you feel they may do is a bad road to go down. If you hire someone, knowing or not knowing they are a race/sex/class/national supremacist (cuz remember, "white" isn't the only type despite what many would claim) and they perform their tasks well...who cares what they believe?

    This move towards the thought police is where the wheels are going to fall off. People are really beginning to blur the line between thoughts/words and actions...and like I've said before, that's a super dangerous road to go down.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    Perhaps my use of "political" was misplaced, kinda. Supremacists are often mixed into politics so yes, in a way it is.

    As for what you said, I'll say this:

    I believe in due process.

    Guilty until proven innocent or guilty on what you feel they may do is a bad road to go down. If you hire someone, knowing or not knowing they are a race/sex/class/national supremacist (cuz remember, "white" isn't the only type despite what many would claim) and they perform their tasks well...who cares what they believe?

    This move towards the thought police is where the wheels are going to fall off. People are really beginning to blur the line between thoughts/words and actions...and like I've said before, that's a super dangerous road to go down.
    Right, right - What I said boils down to: I'm not going to avoid hiring you etc. because of general beliefs and whatnot. I'm going to do that based on your actual actions. I hate Facebook but I think that one thing that it could be good for is revealing who people are. I think this brings the topic full circle. People rarely self-censor on the Internet - even FB. Most people FB-stalk people before hiring them. And I think if someone were a religious zealot, white supremacist, or whatever, that would be pretty apparent. And I think a lot of people would take the stance of "OK, there's nothing alarming here - should be a safe hire." So I think the thought police thing is kinda overblown, especially when it comes to big businesses who don't have time to care about this type of stuff, save for C and VP levels. EDIT: In other words, the people are doing the thought police's work for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fakeXsound View Post
    Right, right - What I said boils down to: I'm not going to avoid hiring you etc. because of general beliefs and whatnot. I'm going to do that based on your actual actions. I hate Facebook but I think that one thing that it could be good for is revealing who people are. I think this brings the topic full circle. People rarely self-censor on the Internet - even FB. Most people FB-stalk people before hiring them. And I think if someone were a religious zealot, white supremacist, or whatever, that would be pretty apparent. And I think a lot of people would take the stance of "OK, there's nothing alarming here - should be a safe hire." So I think the thought police thing is kinda overblown, especially when it comes to big businesses who don't have time to care about this type of stuff, save for C and VP levels. EDIT: In other words, the people are doing the thought police's work for them.
    I agree completely...extremists out themselves on a long enough timeline.

    Do I feel that a prejiduce person can “suck in their gut” to properly perform in a diverse workplace? Long term...no way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    I agree completely...extremists out themselves on a long enough timeline.

    Do I feel that a prejiduce person can “suck in their gut” to properly perform in a diverse workplace? Long term...no way.
    First point - yes, they do.

    Second point - sure they can, in my experience people can profess pretty unpleasant views and still seem to interact with the people they claim to dislike perfectly well. I know plenty of people who claim to dislike muslims, blacks, whoever yet have muslim and black friends. If you confront them on it it seems to be that these views are a preference rather than an exclusive.

    I guess it comes back to what you said earlier - how many racist people are actually truly racist, and how may people are just, I dunno, intellectually lazy on the subject?

    My thoughts on the more general question though are that no, you can't tell people what they can and can't think (imagine being told it's illegal to question the holocaust for example, wtf), but if what they think becomes public and also comes into conflict with what they are supposed to do, it's grounds for investigation. Conflicts of interest are an issue before any action has taken place in other fields so why not this?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithy View Post
    People can hold views or take actions that run counter to their jobs and still perform their job appropriately.
    There is actually a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode featuring this idea.

    Picard must prove Data is legally a sentient being with rights and freedoms under Federation law when transfer orders demand Data's reassignment for study and disassembly. Commander Riker, much to his dismay, must present the opposite case while a Federation arbiter weighs the evidence.

    There is a great scene where Riker is doing some research and triumphantly finds a piece of evidence to pierce Picard's argument, only moments later to find himself horrified at what he has found and its implication for his friend, Data.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNK View Post
    imagine being told it's illegal to question the holocaust for example, wtf
    Okay guys, who wants to let him know...
    Last edited by Lagduf; 03-06-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagduf View Post
    There is actually a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode featuring this idea.

    Picard must prove Data is legally a sentient being with rights and freedoms under Federation law when transfer orders demand Data's reassignment for study and disassembly. Commander Riker, much to his dismay, must present the opposite case while a Federation arbiter weighs the evidence.

    There is a great scene where Riker is doing some research and triumphantly finds a piece of evidence to pierce Picard's argument, only moments later to find himself horrified at what he has found and its implication for his friend, Data.



    Okay guys, who wants to let him know...
    Haha yeah I know, that's why I picked it, it's just unbelievable

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bakaboy View Post
    What makes you think this teacher would peddle toxic garbage in their classroom? Any teacher with a brain knows kids talk about anything halfway interesting to whoever is willing to listen. Good luck keeping it in the classroom if a teacher blurts out blacks are stupid, or whatever hate they can think up.
    In the recording, she says she strives to teach her views to her students and take back influence in the classroom from "the left." She also says she staved off any suspicion by encouraging students to "play along" when she acted differently under the observation of superiors.
    "I danced like a little puppet and I waited until they were gone."
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b089ec353a1fba

    That is what made me think she's peddling toxic garbage to children in the classroom.

    Here's the kicker - the kids in her classroom are almost all white, so chances are good that most of them won't bat an eye at her remarks. Just let them soak in, like the gospels on a sunday morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonGohan View Post
    I didn't even talk about how you live in a shack and shit in the fucking forest.
    Quote Originally Posted by SonGohan View Post
    I mean, at least I didn't say your wife should divorce you or comment on your need to play RE while shitting or whatever else was said.

  12. #37
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    No sympathy for the stupid bitch in the example. You wanna be a white supremacist piece of shit in your spare time, vaya con dios but if you have a public-sector job and people find out you're a white supremacist piece of shit, you have no one to blame but yourself when you get shitcanned.

    More generally, unless it's a public good (politician, elected official, public servant, etc.), I don't give a fuck about anyone's dirty laundry and it definitely doesn't belong on any kind of reputable news source. Also, if someone has a freaky kink that's going to embarrass them if it gets revealed publicly, unless it's illegal or they're someone whose blackmail could cause larger issues outside of their own financial ones, I don't give a fuck. Let people get pegged or jerk off their dog in peace.

    All that said, I have zero sympathy for anyone who says or does something online that comes back to bite them in the ass. Anything you say online is public record. If you don't want people to know you like being cuckolded or think Hitler had the right idea, don't post that shit on Facebook, "private" forums or the hyphen. A lot of dumbass kids are gonna learn that shit the hard way in 10-20 years when they realize background checks can find those nudes they posted on Snapchat or that stupid racist shit they said on Facebook when they were 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    I've been thinking about this story...

    I agree with what you've said. We live in interesting times indeed, people confusing personal opinions/freedom of speech with actual crimes. You can be a hateful bigot all you like...but you'd be wise to keep it on the down-low.

    Some people have unfairly ruined people's careers with this shit, and there are times when it goes too far, case in point:

    http://www.kansascity.com/entertainm...129787114.html

    Guy says something shitty online and has his immediate life ruined over it.

    This teacher was not bright...and she got caught. Other people are getting run over by the liberal machine for doing nothing more than saying something someone doesn't agree with.
    that''s a terrible example.

    that's a guy who used his real name, his twitter was linked to his job, and then openly mocked someones dead wife. he deserved what he got.
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    edit: my stupid post didn't answer the question
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneSage View Post

    neo-geo is still OK as long as no one here uses full names, which I have always considered really gaudy as flaming and crossing the line.
    Reserved simply for scammers or proven convicts I reckon.



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    Quote Originally Posted by cdamm View Post
    that''s a terrible example.

    that's a guy who used his real name, his twitter was linked to his job, and then openly mocked someones dead wife. he deserved what he got.
    No, I’m pretty sure I chose that one correctly. An inflammatory man that makes shitty comments about other dead people had his own medicine used against him. His shitty, near religious followers tracked the comment maker down and spammed his employer until they let him go and issued some idiotic apology.

    The whole thing happened about 5 miles from where I work.

    It was a shit move and one comment like that should not cost someone their job....just ask that Fuckwad Oswalt who is a complete piece of shit yet gets to keep his gigs...
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    No, I’m pretty sure I chose that one correctly. An inflammatory man that makes shitty comments about other dead people had his own medicine used against him. His shitty, near religious followers tracked the comment maker down and spammed his employer until they let him go and issued some idiotic apology.

    The whole thing happened about 5 miles from where I work.

    It was a shit move and one comment like that should not cost someone their job....just ask that Fuckwad Oswalt who is a complete piece of shit yet gets to keep his gigs...
    Comments should be kept in the audible space, what cements them is to type or write them down. In that case it's to practically broadcast them....



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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    Reserved simply for scammers or proven convicts I reckon.
    Straya innit?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    Some people have unfairly ruined people's careers with this shit, and there are times when it goes too far, case in point:

    http://www.kansascity.com/entertainm...129787114.html

    Guy says something shitty online and has his immediate life ruined over it.
    Well now, if I didn't learn me a bunch of fascinating stuff today.

    Last night, a Peoria, Illinois realtor Tweeted a nasty "@" mention to me. He's a big Trump supporter. So
    I must've Tweeted something nasty about his guy, right?

    Well, no.

    I Tweeted out a very positive, very benign Tweet in support of Sally Yates, and her risky stand on principle, which cost her her job. The realtor's response Tweet was along the lines of, "Oh, the nasty little troll has another opinion. Stick to show business and shut up." I'm paraphrasing. Another person who hates my Twitter feed's content who nevertheless follows me.

    I Tweeted out something in support of someone. He reacted with immediate disgust and offense. Fine, whatever.

    Except...

    That was the first thing I "learned," and it was something I should have noticed long ago, but it took awhile to sink into my thick-ass skull.

    What I learned was that when I Tweet or Facebook negative things about Trump -- comedic insults, mocking responses, etc.? Trump supporters will push back mildly, in that dismissive tone of, "Yeah, whatever. We won. Get over it." It's sour, but not vicious or threatening. It's a disagreement. Which is fine.

    But when I Tweet something POSITIVE, or HOPEFUL, in support of a group that's been made to fear or doubt because of Trump and his ghoul brigade's actions? A helpful link for peaceful action? Praising someone who speaks up eloquently against the smirking racism of Trump's parking lot carnival of an administration?

    THAT'S when the responses get violent, and threatening, and ominous. As if the language itself -- the grammar of thoughtfulness -- lands in their guts like glass shards. Empathy and understanding literally feel like an attack to them.

    I Tweeted back an equally snarky response to Tony's initial Tweet. It was late, I'd had a bad day, I was in an awful mood, and something about attacking someone who's simply encouraging another human being landed wrong with me. He insulted me, I returned the insult. Moving on. Or so I thought.

    THEN Peoria Realtor Tweeted out THIS little nugget, in response to someone Tweeting, "Everyone stop having opinions!"

    "I'm a psychic and I'm channeling his wife's opinions."

    HA HA! My wife's dead. Zing!

    Again, that was his FIRST go-to -- this patriotic, God-fearing, father of two. Insult someone and, if they respond? Go after their dead spouse.

    So I started trolling him. And I never even mentioned the shitty, dead wife crack. It's not the first one the anime Nazis have sent my way. I've ignored every one of them (except for the ones Martin Shkreli farted out). I don't want to give anyone the satisfaction.
    But again, it was late, I was in a dark mood, and he caught me at the wrong time.

    But my trolling focused ONLY on his comically pathetic Twitter feed. At his clueless attempts at hyping houses. His creepy in-the-woods selfies while hunting. I saw that other people were giving him shit about the "dead wife" joke. I figured it was going to blow up in the poor slob's face without zero help from me.

    In the morning, his account was gone. He'd closed it down (I assume). He'd also closed down his Facebook profile and professional page.

    And then the realty company he worked for posted a message to their website about how Mr. Dead Wife Joke did NOT represent their company and that he was no longer employed by them.

    And then the shit storm REALLY started.

    Pro-trump accounts BOMBING my feed with "wife murderer Patton Oswalt" Tweets and "libtard cuck" Tweets and death threats and every variety of misspelled rage.

    'Cuz here's the SECOND thing I learned.

    The main thing that Trump supporters are excited about, now that he's president? Is that finally, at LOOOOOONG LAST, all of the awful things they want to say, that used to lose them friends and jobs and marriages? They're EXCITED about potentially getting to say them with ZERO repercussions. Just like Trump did. All the way into the White House. All the way into unlimited, forever power to spew any awful shit that comes to your head and no one dares correct you, rolls their eyes, or punches you in the nose.

    But I'm afraid Peoria Realtor is going to be the first in a long line of Trumpers who will realize, on the other side of firings and divorces and black eyes, that Trump's Teflon Umbrella covers Trump and no one else.

    His cabinet and staff are going to learn that as well.

    That might be fun.

    Try to be nice. As far as that goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonGohan View Post
    I didn't even talk about how you live in a shack and shit in the fucking forest.
    Quote Originally Posted by SonGohan View Post
    I mean, at least I didn't say your wife should divorce you or comment on your need to play RE while shitting or whatever else was said.

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    I would never hire someone whose wife refuses to touch him sexually because she is repulsed by his masturbatory habits.

    I mean if a man cannot manage his relationship with his wife and come to mutually agreeable terms concerning masturbation, then I cannot see how they can function effectively on my team - where cooperation, collaboration and relationship management are critical.

    For every candidate that is not allowed to masturbate in front of his wife, there are countless other applicants who have amicable and healthy mastubatory practices...and I would much rather hire an employee from that pool.
    Last edited by neo_moe; 03-07-2018 at 07:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi View Post
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b089ec353a1fba

    That is what made me think she's peddling toxic garbage to children in the classroom.

    Here's the kicker - the kids in her classroom are almost all white, so chances are good that most of them won't bat an eye at her remarks. Just let them soak in, like the gospels on a sunday morning.
    In all honesty, I would be more interested in the school administration ignoring then the teachers spewing garbage.

    It said right in the articles the teacher was reported by parents and the principal dismissed it after the teacher denyed it. In this day and age what fucking school has the balls to dismiss that? If that isn't a shitstorm in waiting I don't know what is.

    2nd and I'm sure this will start trouble, but let's be frank. Whites in general aren't racist. They're paranoid.

    Whites don't give a shit if the black kid is dumb or smart. They're just going to be robbed reguardless.

    Now blacks in general ARE racist. I would bet a ton of city schools have teachers that spew garbage left and right with administrators having no problem with it because they agree. Shit like that has me more worried then some idiotic dumb fuck white bitch who can't shut the fuck up and keep her opinions to herself simply because whites have a habit of ratting themselves out.

    P.S. In general I'd rather deal with a racist then a paranoid person. A racist can be proven wrong. A paranoid person tend to stay that way no matter what you do to convince them otherwise.
    Last edited by Mr Bakaboy; 03-07-2018 at 08:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    just ask that Fuckwad Oswalt who is a complete piece of shit yet gets to keep his gigs...
    Now you don't like people that are funnier than you.

    The list keeps growing.
    Quote Originally Posted by swlovinist View Post
    And this is why I don't post here more often. Some truly terrible posts here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokehouse View Post
    No, I’m pretty sure I chose that one correctly. An inflammatory man that makes shitty comments about other dead people had his own medicine used against him. His shitty, near religious followers tracked the comment maker down and spammed his employer until they let him go and issued some idiotic apology.

    The whole thing happened about 5 miles from where I work.

    It was a shit move and one comment like that should not cost someone their job....just ask that Fuckwad Oswalt who is a complete piece of shit yet gets to keep his gigs...

    I followed that story. I remember it. His employer was listed on his twitter profile. I would tell you that any employee of mine acted in such away while representing my company he would also be fired . That guy had no business acting like that while being set as a representative of someone else's business .

    If you try to do the whole troll thing and used an anonymous account and then people went to try to track him down that way yes that would be a little overkill . But he was openly representing someone else's business . The business made the right decision separating ties with a sales person who did not know how to represent a business .
    Quote Originally Posted by Kpj View Post
    Sometimes, the customer doesn't always KNOW what's right.



  25. #50
    I was Born This Ugly.
    smokehouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FilthyRear View Post
    Now you don't like people that are funnier than you.

    The list keeps growing.
    His oh-so-innovative politically charged sarcasm is amazingly fresh and creative...I have to say.


    *EDIT*

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Wasabi View Post
    taken from Patton's facebook
    ...because Oswalt never makes any kind of intentionally offensive comments ever...no, that lilly white fella is just a great guy hoping for the best of everyone.

    This asshole lives by the sword...then some guy pulled a pocket knife and loses his job over it. In a moment of irony, Oswalt takes to FB like he's some sort of victim who had his hear violated and karma stepped in.

    My heart bleeds for him.
    Last edited by smokehouse; 03-07-2018 at 08:06 AM.
    Currently seeking the SNES limited ocean blue cart- Alexander Popov's Communist Swimming. Holla at your boy if you have one.

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