PCE Super SD System 3 - Terraonion New Product (Dec 2017)

Rot

Rot

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RAZO said:
Thanks Bro. I mean that's initially what I thought. Take my Current MD2 RGB cable that I use and plug it into the Super Sd System, simple enough. Everything was all good till the cable gang started talking about passive, resistors, ohms. Started to make me 2nd guess if I need to buy another cable for this to work.
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YEAH... those guys are pissing me off... Neosd has had this device for MONTHS!

Tested it on mutiple variants of consoles... with a bog standard MD 2 lead...

My advice to the lads as always is... wait until you get the fuckin' thing... and stop speculating...

xROTx

PS. These "new" guys seem to feel they can just waltz in... and I feel seeing as I don't know who any of them are... they're all fookin' expendable..
 
F

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Wow, we were all waiting on Deunan to create the PCE drive emulator, who is quite a capable person who produced great products for Saturn and DC... and NeoSD sneaks in another incredible product. I'm definitely going to grab one and keep my eye open on a SuperGrafx. I've always wanted one because I like the funky design of it.

Really awesome time right now in the modding community, so many neat projects coming out in the last 5 years.
 
NightWolve

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RevQuixo said:
Speaking of ripping and formats. Are there any plans to supports the Clone CD format? I know there is a debate out there on which format is "better" for PC Engine Games and different groups use different formats. Sorry if this has been asked already, didn't find it in my search.
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I can tell you with 100% certainty there's no point using CloneCD for PC Engine/Turbo CDs, it's unnecessary overkill. NEC game CDs follow standard Redbook & Yellowbook mixed mode rules, there's no copy protection whatsoever...

ISO/WAV/CUE is perfect for several reasons: 1) You can replace Japanese wave files with English fan dubs such as with Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys, and the upcoming Legend of Xanadu I & II due out in 2018, 2) Listen to any audio track any time, 3) Use specialized audio compression either lossless like APE or FLAC, or lossy encoding like OGG. MP3 is destructive to original wave size, this will cause game crash bugs if the original LBA TOC data isn't available, so people should cease MP3 use here...

Most pirate groups deploy BIN/CUE in a ZIP, and while you lose the above mentioned benefits, they're perfectly fine archives, smaller than CloneCD. Anyway, like I said, CloneCD is overkill, it's needed for like Securom copy protection cases and what not, otherwise don't bother.

neosd said:
About simulating the original CD reading/access speeds?
I don´t think this makes any sense, whats the point about making load times larger ? thats the only difference you will find with the cd drive.
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Heh heh, he wants the "true retro CD experience..." How about also adding a motion sensor so that if you bump the system while it's playing a CD Redbook audio track, it skips a few sectors forward to emulate classic CD skipping for a "truer" experience of the good ole days ?? :D :D
 
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GohanX

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fenikso said:
If making it 100% compatible with MD2 cables would enable me to use HD Retrovision's cable, that I already own, then I'm for. For all I know, though, it's already compatible, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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HD Retrovision Genesis cables already have a switch on it to disable the resistors if needed. The idea is you would have them on when using it with a Genesis and off when using an adapter for another system. So no matter which direction they go with the SD3 you're covered.

Personally I'm in the "if you're gonna use a proprietary MD2 pinout make it to MD specs" club but it doesn't matter to me either way since it's easy enough to remove the resistors from a cable is necessary.
 
fenikso

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Nice. I thought that might be the case with the switch on the cable, but I wasn't sure. If I had to end up using composite until I could afford a better option (RGB to HDMI via upscaler), then that's what I would have done.
 
RevQuixo

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NightWolve said:
I can tell you with 100% certainty there's no point using CloneCD for PC Engine/Turbo CDs, it's unnecessary overkill. NEC game CDs follow standard Redbook & Yellowbook mixed mode rules, there's no copy protection whatsoever...
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Be that as it may, it seems at least one group (TruRip?) seems to prefer CCD. From my very unscientific searching they seem to have a larger available library than Redump which employs BIN/CUE. I'm sure it will sort itself out once this option comes to market, but it can't hurt to ask seeing as CCD is another uncompressed format with its own TOC files.
 
RevQuixo

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GohanX said:
HD Retrovision Genesis cables already have a switch on it to disable the resistors if needed. The idea is you would have them on when using it with a Genesis and off when using an adapter for another system. So no matter which direction they go with the SD3 you're covered.

Personally I'm in the "if you're gonna use a proprietary MD2 pinout make it to MD specs" club but it doesn't matter to me either way since it's easy enough to remove the resistors from a cable is necessary.
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Everything I've read indicates that the switch is only a contrast switch... (unless it is happening automatically in the cable...which without an adapter I'm not certain how the cable would know).
 
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GohanX

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That's what the resistors do, they lower the levels of the signals. The Genesis RGB signal is too bright without them.
 
RevQuixo

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greedostick said:
I always get my RGB cables from Retro_Console_Accessories. They have excellent RGB cables. Here is a link to the Sega Genesis Model 2 RGB cable they sell. I will just assume I can use this unless I hear otherwise.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-seller-Genesis-2-32X-CDX-RGB-SCART-cable-Csync-no-jailbars-/201309414919
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Although Rot may lock me in the war room, and while they might work with certain equipment, the crux of this discussion is that the cables from RCA and (RCG in the UK) both have resistors that need to be present in the cabling because it isn't in the Mega Drive / Genesis hardware. The SSD3 currently has the resistors in the device meaning that it isn't needed to have them in the cabling. What will this do? i'm not entirely sure. Maybe it will make the image too dark..maybe it will do nothing. That is why there is talk of needing passive cables which just pass through the signal without changing it. Passive cabling wouldn't work properly on a real Mega Drive / Genesis though, so likely most of of current cabling we own is out of spec.

What does all of this actually mean...damned if I know, I don't have the device yet..so I can't say how it would work with retrovision, framemeisters, OSSCs, etc.
 
neosd

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RevQuixo said:
What does all of this actually mean...damned if I know, I don't have the device yet..so I can't say how it would work with retrovision, framemeisters, OSSCs, etc.
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I am going to sleep now, but i would love that you read what you write and think about that.

i will give you a hint : ITS A CABLE

There are two type of genesis2 cables being sold :

a) one with resistors
b) one without resistors


Where is the "issue" about those ? cables with resistors and our current configuration may output a darker image on crts

Why we haven´t noticed that ? cause our cables may not have the resistors, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO CHECK TOMORROW.

What can we do about that ?

Change the resistors on our PCB to 0ohm to fit the cables with resistors OR let the current ones.

What would happen if we don´t change the resistors to 0ohm ? users may get darker picture using cables WITH resistors.
How this could be solved if we don´t change the resistors to 0ohm ? getting a cable without resistors. Where can i get one ? EVERYWHERE, its not an adamantium cable.
What if i can´t find a cable without the resistors ? you can remove the resistors from your cable, those are on the SCART connector, they are easy to remove.
What else can we do about that ? Ship a free cable without resistors with each Super SD System 3


So what we are going to do ? WE DON´T KNOW, WE HAVE TO SEE IF THE CABLES WE USED HAVE RESISTORS OR NOT
 
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Syn

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People could make a different thread to carry on the conversation rather than clutter up this thread.

Rot's asked nicely and flat out told people to stop.

Edit...hmm NeoSD just posted he'd love to hear your thoughts. I guess carry on.
 
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neosd

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Syn said:
People could make a different thread to carry on the conversation rather than clutter up this thread.

Rot's asked nicely and flat out told people to stop.

Edit...hmm NeoSD just posted he'd love to hear your thoughts. I guess carry on.
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We want to hear people, but we don´t want to read is people without any technical background on the subject sugesting our device may not work with OSS or Framemeister, this confuses people and generates trouble.

Is it that hard to understand ? we already told that a pile of times : we want to check our cables and take a decision, any decisión we take will be fine cause you guys will be able to :

a) use pasive cables without resistors
OR
b) use cables with the resistors

Is it so hard to understand that this is nothing relevant at all ? its just a cable
 
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RevQuixo

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neosd said:
I am going to sleep now, but i would love that you read what you write and think about that.

i will give you a hint : ITS A CABLE
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Maybe this is a language barrier thing...but I'm on your side. I don't really care what format you end up with, as I said I haven't tested it, you have. However, this hobby is full of people who have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars on esoteric scalers and cabling and what-not and without a definitive notion of how the device works with framemeisters or OSSCs or XRGBs, people are going to have questions. Stifling discussion of those questions is hardly what this forum is about traditionally speaking though. We are famously assholes...its kind of our thing. I wouldn't advise anyone to go and buy cables right now though ;)
 
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Syn

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I have a number of cables as is (OSSC & XRGB3).

I'll be checking anyways.

Everyone has different setups/needs so I expect numerous positive reports and recommendations.

I'm just waiting for the release and will act accordingly.
 
chrisr

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Syn said:
Okay, a little odd but I've dealt with quirky sellers.
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Yes, it is, but they're a two-person shop. They actually explained the rationale here. If you ever need something special, they are incredibly accommodative.
 
thirdkind

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strygo said:
Yes, it is, but they're a two-person shop. They actually explained the rationale here. If you ever need something special, they are incredibly accommodative.
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Yup. I got my Analogue Nt Mini SCART cable from them. Very high quality and quick turnaround despite being a small shop. Plan to get all my cables from them from now on.
 
Syn

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strygo said:
Yes, it is, but they're a two-person shop. They actually explained the rationale here. If you ever need something special, they are incredibly accommodative.
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Thanks.

If the demand allows them to dictate the ordering procedure that's awesome.
 
nam9

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NeoSD: you mentioned that you have placed resistors/caps for RGB line in the console, whereas Sync is output at TTL level...

To quote Tim Worthington (viletim):

Why is the [RGBS] resistor best placed at the console end?

A TTL sync signal has a large amplitude (3-5 Vpp) and the series resistor attenuates it to something in the area of 0.4 Vpp. If the signal is an order of magnitude smaller when going through the cable it will couple a lot less into the other signals. The victim signal that is most vulnerable to to sync coupling is the audio signal.

For the same reason, the 75 ohm resistors should be placed on the console end inside the Mega Drive RGB cable. There is actually another important reason for this. High speed amplifiers (such as the video encoder) are unstable with capacitive loads. The video encoder requires the 75 ohm resistors placed reasonable close to it to isolate its output from the parasitic capacitance of the cable. Capacitive loads tend to make high speed amplifiers oscillate or otherwise become unstable. There's a note about this in page 12 of the CXA1645P datasheet, but it applies to all video encoders and fast video drivers in general.

In short: Put all resistors in the console end. It reduces the buzz in the audio. In the case of the Mega Drive/Master System it will prevent unpredictable graphical artefacts in the video.
Click to expand...
 
GadgetUK

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There are two ways of looking at this - As it stands, with caps on the super system 3, for me it gives a crystal clear display - using an RGB lead that has resistors but no caps. They could bypass the caps with zero ohm links (and make a cost saving over the caps there, albeit a tiny amount). If they did that, would everyone be happy? I certainly don't mind adding caps into my RGB cable because the cable SCART end should have them really I think. Just strange how so many of these cables are sold without caps in there =/
 
Heinz

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What is there to be happy or unhappy about? if you've got a cable that isn't passive then buy one that is?

All this bullshit back and forth over a cable.... step away from the keyboard.
 
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